EVs - New Hampshire gets it right

[BodeMiller1]

5G radiation???

This sounds like early 2000s talk when we were all going to grow 3rd testicles because we had cell phones in our pockets... LOL

Back on track here...

We need better infrastructure for EVs (charging and electrical grid). They need better range, longevity, and reliability. I drive my cars for a long time and don't want to have to replace them before its time. All that being said I have a relatively short commute to work and a garage. Perhaps they will be for me sooner than later. They just need to become more practical and right now they are just barely meeting that threshold.

Yea, I don't care about any of this stuff either. However, one of my best friends always has a cell on his ear and yep he now has skin cancer that has traveled up his butt (please note the correct use of the word). Chemo, radiation and he'll be dead in a couple of years. I warned him for the last 20 years you're going to be sorry. Radio waves are one thing you get into microwaves and radiation and that's another.

This is a little dark, but one of the fun things about getting old is watching people who had unhealthy habits die.

File under: you made your bed now sleep in it.

 

[BodeMiller1]

That's true of all vehicles now. Less weight == better mileage, all else being equal, and particularly for vehicles with large sales numbers, even a 0.1 MPG difference has a significant impact on fleet averages.

I say this as the owner of a beer-can F-150. I'm actually a fan of the aluminum body because it doesn't rust, but there's clearly a lot of effort in making the truck more efficient.

Yep, I thought the aluminum bed was a good idea from the get go. I had a Ford F - 150 4X4 for 5 years (18 - 21 mpg with the wind to your back driving down hill).

A 1970 Chevy Nova weighed 2,820 lbs.

A Tesla Model X weighs 5,390 lbs.

Was surprised to see these numbers. Hmm, I'm guessing the Nova has an empty gas tank? And the Tesla battery weighs 1,183.

The Tesla might have more weight so when it self parks it can plow through 20 to 30 people to pick you up in the fire lane in front of the store. This is good because first, who wants to walk to their car? And second ,who wants to walk through a parking lot scattered with medical waste?

A self driving car might know it ran someone over, but it will never feel bad about it.

 

[BodeMiller1]

5G radiation???

This sounds like early 2000s talk when we were all going to grow 3rd testicles because we had cell phones in our pockets... LOL

Back on track here...

We need better infrastructure for EVs (charging and electrical grid). They need better range, longevity, and reliability. I drive my cars for a long time and don't want to have to replace them before its time. All that being said I have a relatively short commute to work and a garage. Perhaps they will be for me sooner than later. They just need to become more practical and right now they are just barely meeting that threshold.

JW69
You live near three mile island. If we can run all of the cars within 1,000 off of the reactor for 20 years could there be any fallout?

The others
Germany is building out a coal fired energy plant because they need a lot of power for many reasons, similar to us in New England.

Germany has a choice, let the economy fail and people freeze or try and make up for the loss of natural gas from their pipelines being turned off. Most Americans, myself included, will never understand how f'd up it is in the Europe theater. Imagine if instead of the Atlantic we had country trying to take us over by force.

What if

 

[deadheadskier]

For those concerned about available charging, are you aware that BMW, GM, Hyundai and others have agreed to a joint venture to install 30k charging stations around the country?

Are people also aware that an estimated 90 new EV models are projected to be for sale by end of 2026?

I know people are saying look at how much longer EVs are sitting on the lots today, this is a failure in the market, but I think that's very much a temporary thing. A lot of it is high interest rates on vehicles with ASPs of $60k.

I think the combination of better vehicle choices (many at lower cost) and continued investments in infrastructure is really going to accelerate adoption, even without significant increases in range. The writing is on the wall

 

[AdironRider]

The lower cost has yet to materialize, despite everyone’s insistence it will. And no, a Chevy Bolt that is the equivalent of a 14k Mitsubishi compact for double the price doesn’t count.

The EV use case is not as strong as you claim DH. You are projecting a lot of what could be as fact to make your point.

 

[deadheadskier]

The lower cost has yet to materialize, despite everyone’s insistence it will.

Are you just making things up?

EV Prices Sink Up To 42%, New CarGurus Report Shows

A new report by auto buying and research site CarGurus shows the affordability block to buying an EV may be cracking.

www.forbes.com

Wait until what things look like in 3 years when there are 90 more options.

No you won't find EVs that compete with a $14K Mitsubishi subcompact. On the flip side, how many ICE vehicles can compete on performance with a Tesla Model 3 at that price point?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

lol. skin cancer from cell phone. lol.

 

[Hawk]

Not an EV but when I was in Ireland I drove a Mercedes Benz sedan that was excellent. I think it was a C class and it was diesel electric and got about 100 mpg. We drove for a week from Cork to Kilarny to Gallway and all around on one tank of gas. Very nice car. I was told back here in the US that politcs blocked the import of such efficient cars. That is a clear case that we as country realy have no wish to deviate from our gas comsumtion ways. It will remain that way until the gas resource is depleted and some other wealthy super group takes up the cause because there is a profit to be made. After all, good intentions do no drive anything. It is money that will change things.

 

[BodeMiller1]

At least with gas engines the fumes are spread out (except for cities).

I really don't care how much they cost. EVs and Hybrids cost more, butt you make up for it with tax credits and fuel savings. Depending on how much you drive.

The above statement is not true. Cost it out, you'd have to drive a ton and take tax dollars to come close. There is a salient difference between your cost and the true cost.

 

[skiur]

JW69
You live near three mile island. If we can run all of the cars within 1,000 off of the reactor for 20 years could there be any fallout?

The others
Germany is building out a coal fired energy plant because they need a lot of power for many reasons, similar to us in New England.

Germany has a choice, let the economy fail and people freeze or try and make up for the loss of natural gas from their pipelines being turned off. Most Americans, myself included, will never understand how f'd up it is in the Europe theater. Imagine if instead of the Atlantic we had country trying to take us over by force.

What if

The gas natural gas storage facilities in Germany are currently full. Try again.

 

[BodeMiller1]

lol. skin cancer from cell phone. lol.

And he bought a house in Key West an old sugar plantation. That's what did him in. The drugs and booze probably didn't help. Doctors say the booze was worse than the drugs. When at UNH we hung out here York, Maine, of course there are more towers and stuff on this mansion now.

Yep my buddy is f***cked. We used to fly to Stowe in his plane and it was fun. Standing in the parking lot with ladies wearing only our ski jackets smoking a joint. Now that he's got two planes he's lost his pilot's license because of the whole cancer deal. All true... sad butt true.

Statistically, you probably have bought a car or truck from them. If not you know people who have. So thanks

 

[BodeMiller1]

The gas natural gas storage facilities in Germany are currently full. Try again.

So all of the stories I've read about Putin shutting off ...


You really don't remember, was it something that he said?
Are the voices in your head calling, Gloria?
Gloria, don't you think you're fallin'?
If everybody wants you, why isn't anybody callin'?
You don't have to answer

 

[AdironRider]

Are you just making things up?

EV Prices Sink Up To 42%, New CarGurus Report Shows

A new report by auto buying and research site CarGurus shows the affordability block to buying an EV may be cracking.

www.forbes.com

Wait until what things look like in 3 years when there are 90 more options.

No you won't find EVs that compete with a $14K Mitsubishi subcompact. On the flip side, how many ICE vehicles can compete on performance with a Tesla Model 3 at that price point?

42% on a used Tesla Model S that will require a 5 figure battery replacement repair (oh and still costs 42 grand USED), nevermind that used price is going to require a 10% interest rate on a loan, is a terrible data point for your argument. That is a 1k a month car payment on a rapidly depreciating luxury vehicle with major repair costs.

And the point with the Mitsubishi is the Chevy Bolt is the electric version of that compact, and it costs twice as much for the same utility. Well less utility actually because charging sucks. And Chevy just killed it off because not only was no one buying it, they were losing money on each one.

EVs have a very limited use case (local commuting only, need a garage, and requires a 2k upgrade to said garage), but are not versatile otherwise. 30k chargers is a drop in the bucket when every parking space needs one by the way. It is not equivalent to 30k gas stations when it takes under 3 minutes to fill up an ICE vehicle.

 

[deadheadskier]

Ok Adironrider. You've got it all figured out. Must be smarter than the industry releasing 90 new models in the next three years and investing in the infrastructure to support it.

You must be smarter than all of those guys.

 

[BodeMiller1]

There's a Porche Carrera sitting in the NH Legislature garage today with a State of NH Environmental Services plate. Don't know the guy, but it would be neat to here his take on this. I give them a hard time (jokingly) "all of you guys drive foreign cars".

A couple of months ago I was riding my Mt Bike by and one guy asked me what does that get for gas miles. "About 3/4 of an oz of weed a month" Which is the legal limit you can possess in the state. Strange butt true.

 

[cdskier]

Ok Adironrider. You've got it all figured out. Must be smarter than the industry releasing 90 new models in the next three years and investing in the infrastructure to support it.

You must be smarter than all of those guys.

You do realize that even the US Energy Information Administration is predicting the purchase of EVs (and hybrids) to essentially flatten and peak at around 17-19% through 2050...right? Even high gas/oil prices would only drive that percentage up to around 30%...




The 30K chargers that you mentioned earlier is a drop in the bucket. Yes it is a needed start, but you need an awful lot more infrastructure than that to substantially increase the adoption of EV for more people. 30K charging stations in a country the size of the US is nothing. And add in the fact that charging takes substantially longer with today's technology than filling a tank with gas and that number becomes even less impactful. This is again why I say that quick charging is a critical key to EV adoption. Concerns over charging accessibility is the number 2 issue preventing more people from seriously considering EVs according to a recent industry survey (price is #1).

 

[x10003q]

Here is an interesting article suggesting that hybrids might be better for the environment at the moment rather than full electric vehicles. The hybrids need less of the minerals that are needed for batteries while still offering battery power for the bulk of the miles driven.

"Right now, though, there’s a good argument to be made that the government, and automakers, are leaning too hard into all-electric and neglecting the virtues of hybrid technology. When I first heard this counterintuitive argument from Toyota, I dismissed it as heel-dragging by a company that lags in electrics, but I’ve come around to the idea that hybrids — at least for now — do have a lot of advantages over all-electric vehicles.

Imagine some wheelbarrows filled with rocks. The rocks contain lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel, graphite and other materials for lithium-ion batteries. By Toyota’s calculation, the amount of rocks needed for one long-range electric vehicle would be enough for either six plug-in hybrids or 90 of the type of hybrid that can’t be plugged in for a recharge. (Namely, the type whose batteries are recharged from the engine or from braking."

“The overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as a single battery electric vehicle,” Toyota argues. That’s a stunning statistic if true."
“Toyota’s claim is accurate. We’ve crunched the numbers on this,” Ashley Nunes told me. He is a senior research associate at Harvard Law School and the director for federal policy, climate and energy at the Breakthrough Institute, a think tank. He testified on the topic in April before the House Subcommittee on Environment, Manufacturing and Critical Materials."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/14/opinion/electric-vehicles-toyota-hybrids.html

 

[AdironRider]

Ok Adironrider. You've got it all figured out. Must be smarter than the industry releasing 90 new models in the next three years and investing in the infrastructure to support it.

You must be smarter than all of those guys.

You do realize the manufacturers are being forced to make those models due to politics, notably CAFE regulations. That doesn't mean the market case exists for their existence. I think you are letting your personal politics influence the reality here.

Aston Martin rebranded a Smart ForTwo as an "Aston Martin" to do the same thing in Europe. Guess how many sold. The US is forcing the same situation here for many manufacturers.

Ultimately, your 90 models argument doesn't mean the demand is there, the infrastructure is capable of powering them, or the use case exists for them. What it means is the government is forcing a hand a small minority (7% of new cars sold in 22) ultimately wants right now.

 

[AdironRider]

Oh and here is a synopsis of the Secretary of Energy's total cluster of a road trip with EV's covering a trip from Charlotte to Memphis. That's a 9 hour trip in an ICE vehicle that took 4 days and an cavalcade of errors along the way, including sending ICE powered Suburbans ahead to block of the public (resulting in cops being called) from using chargers because they suck so bad to use.

The Secretary Of Energy's Messy EV Road Trip Included A Family Calling The Cops About A Blocked Charger

The Secretary of Energy went on a four-day EV road trip this summer and not all of it went as planned.

jalopnik.com

https://www.npr.org/2023/09/10/1187224861/electric-vehicles-evs-cars-chargers-charging-energy-secretary-jennifer-granholm

Totally ready for primetime DHS. NPR even thinks its a problem but you do you and throw insults when you lose an argument.

 

[deadheadskier]

You do realize the manufacturers are being forced to make those models due to politics, notably CAFE regulations. That doesn't mean the market case exists for their existence. I think you are letting your personal politics influence the reality here.

Aston Martin rebranded a Smart ForTwo as an "Aston Martin" to do the same thing in Europe. Guess how many sold. The US is forcing the same situation here for many manufacturers.

Ultimately, your 90 models argument doesn't mean the demand is there, the infrastructure is capable of powering them, or the use case exists for them. What it means is the government is forcing a hand a small minority (7% of new cars sold in 22) ultimately wants right now.

Personal politics? Not at all. I'm not some greeny. I could give a shit that electric is greener.

I'm bullish because it's better tech. That's it. Electric is FAR more efficient and not only that, it out performs ICE considerably. We've had ICE vehicles way over a century and are basically at the end of the line in terms of technology development. We have reached our limits on efficiency and performance. EVs have basically only really been worked on in earnest this century. Already better. From a performance perspective, how many ICE cars come close to performing like a Tesla 3 in that price range?

If my politics had anything to do with this discussion, I'd be the opposite. I'd be rooting for the EV industry to collapse because I think Musk is one of the biggest Aholes on the planet and don't want to support something that further enriches him. You probably love him.