ctenidae
Active member
Still don't wuite understand why this wasn't the technology they used in the first place. Hell, it's worked for trains for more than 50 years now.
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$$$$$ for clunkers passes
- Thread starter campgottagopee
- Start date
Still don't wuite understand why this wasn't the technology they used in the first place. Hell, it's worked for trains for more than 50 years now.
bigbog
Active member
All the design/manufacturing info is simply more "crap" to the under-paid...ie..It Will NEVER Be Bought by anyone but the urban wage earners and the better paid & wealthy country folk, which has suited American business just fine so far. As far as the pricing in comparison to what dealers outside the urban centers are selling good mileage gasoline Hondas and Toyotas, you're simply wrong!
drjeff
Well-known member
Marc
New member
I think probably for two reasons... the first being that the battery technology isn't quite there for cars just yet... they were still struggling with that in the Volt last I heard. The last iteration they planned to sell would get 40 miles on a full charge using li-ion batteries. You could do better, and charge faster off the IC engine with more batteries but there's a weight penalty. Not so with trains since they stop and go much less frequently and momentum is a big plus in a lot of situations.
The second is once the Toyota and Honda were leaning in that direction anyway, they both knew they'd have a hard time selling a car that went 0-60 in the length of five or six typical highway on ramps. The IC engine gives the good acceleration and lets them use a smaller, lighter electric motor.
mondeo
New member
Power/weight in trains is a bit different than in cars. Who cares if you have to haul an extra ton of batteries in a train? Whoopdedoo, a fraction of a percent of your total vehicle weight. Extra couple hundred pounds of batteries? Big deal in a car.
The difference between current hybrids and Volt-type is two: for one, the architecture for a traditional hybrid results in minor modifications of an existing vehicle; the only thing you're really changing is the addition of the motor and associated hardware. In a volt, you have a different drivetrain architecture from the ground up. Secondly, the primary power source is completely different. Volt is intended to primarily be electric, current hybrids gas. Which means you need a lot more battery capacity in the Volt, so either better batteries or more batteries. This is what's driving the massive cost of the Volt, which will relegate it to business jet environmentalists.
The back-up motor in the Volt is puny, and will barely keep you at highway speed.
I wouldn't mind owning the right hybrid. Like this one:
ctenidae
Active member
Couldn't a little Honda generator keep a car like the Tesla charged up for a really long time?
I was thinking you could do away with the batteries all together, but a 250 hp electric mtor requires 375 volts, and a 375 volt generator needs an 8 cylinder diesel, so maybe that doesn't work so well...
I was thinking you could do away with the batteries all together, but a 250 hp electric mtor requires 375 volts, and a 375 volt generator needs an 8 cylinder diesel, so maybe that doesn't work so well...
Just wait 'til his healthcare proposal happens
God help us. We should pull a Streisand and move to Canada. Oh wait...
And regarding to what the good Doc quoted. The guy is going to have to take some ownership one of these days. The finger pointing works great for the election..and the first 100 days. But he'll have to step up to the plate eventually.
drjeff
Well-known member
Problem is Glenn that he's got a plan where right now atleast the number of folks that will be stuck with the bill for everything aren't a significant enough portion of the population to voice they're displeasure and vote him out
GrilledSteezeSandwich
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Just wait 'til his healthcare proposal happens
Wasn't that Hillary Clintons idea....yeah universal healthcare is gonna be a nightmare..Dr's will make less and poor people will be healthy and productive..I wonder what Arthur Bunker thinks about that..
GrilledSteezeSandwich
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we should just have a politics forum like www.paskiandride.com since the moderators let political discussions happen,.
riverc0il
New member
Just like bailing out people who took sub-prime loans (non-predatory), this rewards people who made bad buying choices and does nothing for people made appropriate buying decision. I like hybrid credits more than credits for making up for previous bad buys. Without knowing the full details, I can't comment much further, but I hope they included provisions for cars worth less than the credit. People shouldn't get credits for more than the car is even worth in the case of older high mileage junkers.
Finally, I don't support any legislation that seeks to save the failing auto industry. We need the auto industry to go through some consolidation. The companies that made bad business decisions need to fail.
Finally, I don't support any legislation that seeks to save the failing auto industry. We need the auto industry to go through some consolidation. The companies that made bad business decisions need to fail.
Archie Bunker. Damn kids ...
campgottagopee
New member
Well said Riv
drjeff
Well-known member
+1
Yup!
I will admit to being partial to this bumper sticker pertaining to this scenario
Warp Daddy
Active member
+2m, Hell make that PLUS a Billion !!! nah make that + 784 Billion dammit !! -- There NOW i FEEL better
mondeo
New member
I think a car consumes somewhere on the order of 20-30hp at highway speeds. And the Tesla being a sports car, it's not going to just be cruising along. If you're planning on using the generator a lot, it doesn't make sense to go with electric drive, you're just introducing additional inefficiencies into the process. To me the whole volt concept doesn't make sense. If you're going electric, just go electric. Yeah the ICE gives you a safety net, but it probably adds 200-300 lbs to the car all told.
severine
New member
Problem is Glenn that he's got a plan where right now atleast the number of folks that will be stuck with the bill for everything aren't a significant enough portion of the population to voice they're displeasure and vote him out
Now it's political. :roll:
What's the difference between this and the local dealerships running deals where they claim they'll take any clunker for a $3K trade-in? My sister took advantage of that when she bought her Hyundai several years back; her trade in wasn't worth spit.
I do take offense to the comment about "people who made bad buying choices." Not that I will be taking advantage of this program, but it's not because I think it's a bad one; it's because we're in a financial situation where buying socially-acceptable vehicles is not an option. That is unless we decided to go without eating, electric, heat, and possibly a place to live for a while. What good would that hybrid be to me if I had to live in it with 3 other people?
I think the intent is good. Not sure on the specifics of this. But like I said, our dealerships in CT do this sort of thing all the time anyway. It's usually $3K even if the vehicle is junk. $4500 isn't a huge leap, and it won't get me into a newer car that's more efficient because I can't afford one anyway, even with the gas costing less. Sorry, I'll take my offensive SUVs and keep driving them and pissing the rest of you off. If it bothers you too much, feel free to buy me a new car.
bigbog
Active member
Well said riv.....
*Like the bumper sticker drjeff...now that makes me wanna go grab a gun...
x++
*Like the bumper sticker drjeff...now that makes me wanna go grab a gun...
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campgottagopee
New member
Diff is one is a dealership gimmic and the other is tax payers $$$$
eatskisleep
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I don't think this is a good thing at all. People are already in debt and spending another $20K+ on a new car isn't going to help; it just sinks Americans further into debt. They are giving you $3,500 if you get a car that gets atleast 4mpg better? Come on now, like four mpg is really going to make a huge difference. If they really wanted to make a difference make it something like you have to get a car that gets 12 more mpg than previously.
Another problem with this system is some people will buy cheap cars in classified ads just to get their $3,500 check toward their new car.
If I was already a good person and driving a fuel efficient car, how come I don't get money???
The government loves to bailout the car companies, what about the construction companies, the record companies, what about me?!
Also as someone who loves old cars and hotrods, you are gonna see a lot of gems that could be restored just go to the junkyard now and that is what really saddens me the most.
Another problem with this system is some people will buy cheap cars in classified ads just to get their $3,500 check toward their new car.
If I was already a good person and driving a fuel efficient car, how come I don't get money???
The government loves to bailout the car companies, what about the construction companies, the record companies, what about me?!
Also as someone who loves old cars and hotrods, you are gonna see a lot of gems that could be restored just go to the junkyard now and that is what really saddens me the most.
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