gas prices this summer yikes

[hammer]

Didn't VT have a gas tax break last year? Did it help or hurt?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

If you live in snow country diesels can be a bear to start in the winter so not very practical but folks do have them and they depend on friends like myself to give them a jump to get started on a frosty morning.

Also, the big diesel generators that ski hills used are a big air quality issue and is the reason they are being phased out. Killington used to release more CO2 in the air than Burlington. Not a big fan of diesel, add in the odor......

Regarding odor, love the smell of those biofuel vehicles that use cooking oil they get from restaurants, smells like french fries. yum

 

[snoseek]

thats a lot of revenue lost. seems kind of short sighted to me.

 

[ctenidae]

http://www.eagletribune.com/punewshh/local_story_150093820

This is why gas prices are so high. Look what happens when they go down...

 

[Marc]

If you live in snow country diesels can be a bear to start in the winter so not very practical but folks do have them and they depend on friends like myself to give them a jump to get started on a frosty morning.

Also, the big diesel generators that ski hills used are a big air quality issue and is the reason they are being phased out. Killington used to release more CO2 in the air than Burlington. Not a big fan of diesel, add in the odor......

Regarding odor, love the smell of those biofuel vehicles that use cooking oil they get from restaurants, smells like french fries. yum

All symptoms of older diesels. New automatic glowplug systems have really eliminated cold weather starting problems. Several diesels have been made and are currently being offered that meet EPA Tier 2 emmisions requirements and new solid particulate filters have elminated the sooty, black smoke from the incomplete combustion conditions. The big issue from diesels is the release of nitrogen oxides, not CO2 anyway. With new high pressure injectors and the (finally) wide spread availability of low sulfur diesel, this is much less of a concern. Tier 2 restricts nitrogen oxides quite strictly. European emissions standards allow diesels to output nearly seven times the concentration of nitrogen oxides than gas jobs to promote the use of diesels.

The newest diesels I'd be willing to bet would be nearly indistinguishable in operation from a gasoline car.

Now consider this: A new diesel can get similar fuel mileage to a gas electric hybrid because diesel fuel has a higher energy and mass density than gasoline and produces more power than a gas-hybrid. Also a diesel can potentially be much more efficient in certain conditions like highway driving where hybrids can't take advantage of regenerative breaking and the extra hardware is only a weight penalty.

Now also consider that diesels are lubricated partially by their own fuel, run at lower over all engine speeds and are built much heftier than most gasoline cars to handle the higher compression ratios and the result is an engine that can last several hundred thousand miles with proper maintenance.

Also consider that diesels can burn bio diesel or crude diesel indiscriminately.

Then consider the environmental penalties paid for the manufacture and disposal of the NiMH batteries currently used in hybrids, which won't have even a third of the service life a diesel engine will. And Toyota is currently switching to Lithium Ion which present even more of an environmental concern with regards to disposal.

ctenidae... I think I had a stroke when I saw Carl again. That would probably explain it.

:dunce:

 

[ski_resort_observer]

All symptoms of older diesels. New automatic glowplug systems have really eliminated cold weather starting problems. Several diesels have been made and are currently being offered that meet EPA Tier 2 emmisions requirements and new solid particulate filters have elminated the sooty, black smoke from the incomplete combustion conditions. The big issue from diesels is the release of nitrogen oxides, not CO2 anyway. With new high pressure injectors and the (finally) wide spread availability of low sulfur diesel, this is much less of a concern. Tier 2 restricts nitrogen oxides quite strictly. European emissions standards allow diesels to output nearly seven times the concentration of nitrogen oxides than gas jobs to promote the use of diesels.

The newest diesels I'd be willing to bet would be nearly indistinguishable in operation from a gasoline car.

Now consider this: A new diesel can get similar fuel mileage to a gas electric hybrid because diesel fuel has a higher energy and mass density than gasoline and produces more power than a gas-hybrid. Also a diesel can potentially be much more efficient in certain conditions like highway driving where hybrids can't take advantage of regenerative breaking and the extra hardware is only a weight penalty.

Now also consider that diesels are lubricated partially by their own fuel, run at lower over all engine speeds and are built much heftier than most gasoline cars to handle the higher compression ratios and the result is an engine that can last several hundred thousand miles with proper maintenance.

Also consider that diesels can burn bio diesel or crude diesel indiscriminately.

Then consider the environmental penalties paid for the manufacture and disposal of the NiMH batteries currently used in hybrids, which won't have even a third of the service life a diesel engine will. And Toyota is currently switching to Lithium Ion which present even more of an environmental concern with regards to disposal.

ctenidae... I think I had a stroke when I saw Carl again. That would probably explain it.

:dunce:

Good info....unfortunately here in Vermont a new car is considered any car that is younger than 10 years and has under 100,000 so the diesels around here are mostly the old ones.:wink:

Regarding ski hill diesel output I remember reading that the state flies around checking CO2 every so often and for many years the air above kmart was the worst for CO2 from the diesels. Becoming a moot point as they are going away.

On another front, the EI numbers just came out a few minutes ago, considered important as it comes out around Memorial Day and it looks like it favors the hope that prices at the pump will remain flat or even go down if a big hurricane does not hit the gulf.

Even tho crude inventories were down, unleaded gas inventories are up and the refineries are now producing at a 91.7% rate which is good as compared to below 90% for the last few months. The price of crude has gone down this week and the price of unleaded gas futures has been dropping for almost 2 weeks now. Demand has gone down which was a surprise and does add to the pressure to stop the increase.

As I have said in previous posts the national average price at the pump will never get to $4 a gallon. Right now it's at about $3.21 with $3.05 in Boston and $3.57 in San Fransisco. I bought gas the other day for $2.98

Keep your fingers crossed!

 

[MarkC]

I have not read the entire thread but the thought of it costing me $60 to get from long island to my house near plattekill in roxbury really hurts.

 

[loafer89]

I just finished changing more of the incandescent light bulbs in our house to compact flourescent, and I just figured that with the 20 bulbs replaced so far we have reduced our lighting energy consumption from 1200 watts to 315. So I wonder what reducing 885 watts will save me, and I have quite a lot more bulbs to replace.

I suppose every bit of conservation helps in the long run.

 

[snoseek]

I just finished changing more of the incandescent light bulbs in our house to compact flourescent, and I just figured that with the 20 bulbs replaced so far we have reduced our lighting energy consumption from 1200 watts to 315. So I wonder what reducing 885 watts will save me, and I have quite a lot more bulbs to replace.

I suppose every bit of conservation helps in the long run.

I think these bulbs last a lot longer. right? if that's the case then it's a no brainer.

I let the g.f. handle this stuff.

 

[loafer89]

They are supposed to last 3-4 times as long as a standard incandescent bulb.

 

[Marc]

They are supposed to last 3-4 times as long as a standard incandescent bulb.

More, actually. Average incandescent service life is somewhere around 1000 hours at best. CFL's can go for 15,000.

 

[loafer89]

I hope so, but I also read some studies where the bulbs lost half of there luminescence after reaching only 40% into there predicted lifespan. Also these bulbs do not do well in a location where they are being turned on/off frequently, which is where I have alot of them placed in my house, so we will see.

I am doing it more for the enviornment than for my wallet, by helping to cut down on greenhouse gas emissions used to produce the electricity I use.

 

[Marc]

I hope so, but I also read some studies where the bulbs lost half of there luminescence after reaching only 40% into there predicted lifespan. Also these bulbs do not do well in a location where they are being turned on/off frequently, which is where I have alot of them placed in my house, so we will see.

I am doing it more for the enviornment than for my wallet, by helping to cut down on greenhouse gas emissions used to produce the electricity I use.

Well you don't have to do all that.


Build yourself a small nuclear reactor and take yourself off grid. That's probably what I'll do.

 

[andyzee]

For some reason, every time I see this thread, I think of this song (Feel free to delete if it's inappropriate for this site):

DENIS LEARY - ASSHOLE

(Spoken)
Folks, I'd like to sing a song about the American dream.
About me, about you, about the way our American hearts beat way down
in the bottom of our chests. About the special feeling we get in the
cockles of our hearts, maybe below the cockles, maybe in the subcockle
area. Maybe in the liver. Maybe in the kidneys. Maybe even in the
colon, we don't know.

(Sung)
I'm just a regular Joe with a regular job.
I'm your average white suburbanite slob.
I like football and porno and books about war.
I've got an average house with a nice hardwood floor.

My wife and my job, my kids and my car.
My feet on my table and a cuban cigar.

But sometimes that just ain't enough to keep a man like me interested
(oh no) no way (uh-uh)
No, I've gotta go out and have fun at someone else's expense
(oh yeah) Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
I drive really slow in the ultra-fast lane,
While people behind me are going insane.

I'm an asshole (He's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole (He's an asshole, such an asshole)
I use public toilets and piss on the seat,
I walk around in the summertime saying "How about this heat?"
I'm an asshole (He's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole (He's the world's biggest asshole)
Sometimes I park in handicapped spaces,
While handicapped people make handicapped faces.
I'm an asshole (He's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole (He's a real fucking asshole)

Maybe I shouldn't be singing this song
Ranting and raving and carrying on
Maybe they're right when they tell me I'm wrong
NAAAAH!

I'm an asshole (he's an asshole, what an asshole)
I'm an asshole (he's the world's biggest asshole)

(Spoken)
Know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac El Dorado,
hot-fuckin'-pink, with whaleskin hubcaps and all-leather cow interior and big
brown baby seal eyes for headlights... yeah! And I'm gonna drive around in
that baby doing 115 miles an hour, getting 1 mile per gallon, suckin' down
quarter pound cheeseburgers from McDonald's in the old-fashioned non-
biodegradable styrofoam containers... yeah! And when I'm done suckin' down
those greaseball burgers I'm gonna toss the styrofoam containers right out the
side, and there ain't a goddamn thing anybody can do about it. You know why?
Because we got the bombs, that's why... yeah! Two words--nuclear fuckin'
weapons, OK? Russia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, they can have all the democracy
they want...they can have a democracy cakewalk right through the middle of
Tienamen Square and it won't make a lick of fuckin' difference, because we got
the bombs, OK? John Wayne's not dead--he's frozen! And when we find a cure for
cancer, we're gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You
know why? You ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15 million
times--that's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be. I'm gonna get the Duke and
John Casavetti and Sam Peckinpaw and a case of fuckin' whisky and drive...

(Hey, hey, hey, hey, you know you really are an asshole?)

Why don't you shut up and sing the song, Chris. I thought I was the
asshole... all the time it was him... what an asshole!

(Sung)
I'm an asshole (I'm an asshole, he's an asshole)
I'm an asshole (He's the world's biggest asshole)
A S-S H-O L-E
Everybody, A S-S H-O L-E
Ay Ay-Ay Ay-Ay Ay-Ay
A-thoom A-thoom-thoom A-thoom-thoom A-thoom-thoom
Oooooooo

(Spoken)
I'm an asshole and I'm proud of it!

(Chris mouths: Asshole

 

[riverc0il]

I just finished changing more of the incandescent light bulbs in our house to compact flourescent, and I just figured that with the 20 bulbs replaced so far we have reduced our lighting energy consumption from 1200 watts to 315. So I wonder what reducing 885 watts will save me, and I have quite a lot more bulbs to replace.

I suppose every bit of conservation helps in the long run.

This is really the no brainer consumer oriented economics that must happen for decreasing our personal energy usage to be a issue everyone can participate in on a large and significant scale. When the economics point to dramatic cost savings on part of the consumer and becomes a "no brainer," these new green solutions will take hold quickly. We noticed a 1/3 decrease in our electricity bill by switching to the new light bulbs... and we are very good about always turning lights off. I suspect a bigger house that always has lights on could save up to as much as 50%. The fact that they last longer means less replacement costs too, total no brainer and I am surprised regular light bulbs are still sold in significant numbers.

 

[Marc]

Of course CFL still present that pesky mercury problem.

 

[Marc]

Always a trade off.

 

[riverc0il]

Yea, I forgot to mention about the Mercury issue. But it is an extremely small amount. Still, most people will probably throw them in the trash instead of finding the proper disposable hazardous waste center. Problem for many people is there may not be such a center nearby.

 

[hammer]

I've been slowly replacing some of the lights in my house with CFLs now...not sure what the savings will be but I do tend to keep lights on more than I should so hopefully I'll see a big savings.

There are a few disadvantages, though...

• The light output is a bit low when they first turn on. This is noticeable in a high-output CFL I have in my basement,
• I have a lot of dinner switches in my house, and CFLs can't run on them.

As far as the mercury issue is concerned, I'll just need to keep any used bulbs around until my town's annual hazardous waste collection...no big deal. If one breaks, though, in the trash it goes.

 

[Marc]

Meh, I used to play with the mercury from broken thermometers and I'm perfectly normal today.