gas prices this summer yikes

[Warp Daddy]

Unfortunately in an oligopoly there is VERY little competition and even fewer reaonable alternatives and a leadership frankly that is moribund.

. Hell we've been CONSERVING , limiting HP and size and maxing efficiency ( 4 cylinder engines since the first energy crisis in 1973) long before most of you were born !
Many folks also maxed out home heating efficiency with ENERGY STAR upgrades R40 insulation , 90+++ eff furnaces , Green products in the home etc , car pooling , biking , walking etc -

Realistically WHAT the HELL more can be done by the average citizen ??

And yet these greed hogs still produce RECORD PROFITS and pay obscene bonuses to their damn CEO"S

Sorry for the rant ----------but i'm not buying that this isnt a contrived situation .-

-Why no new refineries in the last 3 decades ?? Why no goal about energy independence from Middle East oil similar to the goal John Kennedy set in 1960 that within 10 yrs we'd be on the moon . Why ?

 

[riverc0il]

I feel ya Warp Daddy, I dislike the big Corporate USA system that sets up the imbalance of wealth distribution. But the average citizen hardly drives a few efficient four cylinder (for what its worth, I do), so I think the average citizen has a lot more to do if they want to truly effect the market for gas prices. At this point, people are willing to pay the extra money for non-fuel efficient vehicles. The oil companies can have their temporary record profits if we can double the price of gas and cause some real long term change.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I realize this is the CSM but it has some great info regarding the refinery problem.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0921/p11s02-usec.html

 

[snoseek]

all summer long i drive 95 south to mass. and see lot's of large vehicles with empty passenger seats...

 

[John84]

Why no new refineries in the last 3 decades ??

From what I understand (I could be way off base), there is no incentive for oil companies to build new refineries. They cost so much that once the theoretical break even point has been reached, it's so far down the road that more money has been spent on upkeep and you still haven't broken even. Additionally, a refinery would likely have to be somewhere on the coasts to maximize efficiency in distribution to the people. I assume that most people would throw a fit if a refinery was being built in their neck of the woods.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

A new report out today confirms that it is the continued high demand that is driving the prices at the pumps. It also confirms that as consumers there is not a whole we can do about it. We can try to conserve more than we are now but it will have little effect on the big picture. A recent driver of high global demand has been the greatly expanding economies of Chine and India who are sucking up oil like never before.

As far as the USA, in 2006 we consumered 1% more oil than the previous year. So far in 2007 it is 2%. Seems like a small increase but it's a doubling of increase in demand from last year.

The refineries are the plug point in our delivery system. Iran and Venezuala are now refining their crude at home and shipping gasoline instead of crude. The sad truth is no new refineries are even planned except a small plant, I think in CA and it's not a mainstream type refinery. Many refineries have been expanded in the last 30 years.

Many of the major oil companies like Exxon/Mobil have nothing to due with the price of the pump. They have no refineries of their own. The price is determined by our free market system much like Maine lobstermen have nothing to do with the price you pay at your fav restaurant.

While many of us are adjusting our driving habits and other energy uses as much as we can to reduce our cost I have taken a more proactive path by investing in some of these companies. I like Velero(VLO), basically a refiner who is buying and building gas stations. We even have one in little old Waitsfield, Vt.

 

[ctenidae]

I have taken a more proactive path by investing in some of these companies. I like Velero(VLO), basically a refiner who is buying and building gas stations. We even have one in little old Waitsfield, Vt.

That's a pretty cool idea- sort of gives you a rebate on your gas purchases. Nice one. Hess also owns their whole line, from refinery to pump, as does Citgo, even though they're Venezuelan.

 

[loafer89]

The news on T.V this morning mentioned that the Connecticut legislature is considering a gas tax holiday for this summer's driving season. A $0.25 break per gallon would help a bit, but I am a bit leary of higher taxes somewhere else down the road.

I gassed up in Massachusetts last week after visiting my father in Enfield and the gas was $3.05 vs $3.20 + in Connecticut.

 

[Grassi21]

I gassed up in Massachusetts last week after visiting my father in Enfield and the gas was $3.05 vs $3.20 + in Connecticut.

Yeah, we noticed the difference when we were up at the Cape this past weekend.

 

[hammer]

The news on T.V this morning mentioned that the Connecticut legislature is considering a gas tax holiday for this summer's driving season. A $0.25 break per gallon would help a bit, but I am a bit leary of higher taxes somewhere else down the road.

I gassed up in Massachusetts last week after visiting my father in Enfield and the gas was $3.05 vs $3.20 + in Connecticut.

I never get gas in CT if I can avoid it...not as bad as CA but seems to be worse than all neighboring states.

Strange thing is that gas prices in NJ are decent even though they only have full serve.

 

[ctenidae]

Strange thing is that gas prices in NJ are decent even though they only have full serve.

A lot of gasoline comes in through NJ, so transportation costs are lower. I think they have lower state taxes, too.

 

[snoseek]

The news on T.V this morning mentioned that the Connecticut legislature is considering a gas tax holiday for this summer's driving season. A $0.25 break per gallon would help a bit, but I am a bit leary of higher taxes somewhere else down the road.

I gassed up in Massachusetts last week after visiting my father in Enfield and the gas was $3.05 vs $3.20 + in Connecticut.

i'm not an expert, but this just seems @$$nine to me. this is really just further prolonging the problem, and sounds like a move by politicians to gain popularity. I don't even want to know what the effects on the taxes would be. damn politicians need to look beyond 4 years.:smash:

 

[ctenidae]

damn politicians need to look beyond 4 years.:smash:

We all do. I'd settle for the general public looking beyond next week.

 

[Marc]

Oook, I'll bite, and hopefully won't get political in the process. Or offend anyone.

Unfortunately in an oligopoly there is VERY little competition and even fewer reaonable alternatives and a leadership frankly that is moribund.

It's true there are huge barriers to entry in the hydrocarbon refining and distribution market, but in general, we are still paying a very low price for gasoline, compared to what could be charged and what other countries pay.

. Hell we've been CONSERVING , limiting HP and size and maxing efficiency ( 4 cylinder engines since the first energy crisis in 1973) long before most of you were born !
Many folks also maxed out home heating efficiency with ENERGY STAR upgrades R40 insulation , 90+++ eff furnaces , Green products in the home etc , car pooling , biking , walking etc -
Realistically WHAT the HELL more can be done by the average citizen ??

That's good. To continue to help should mean educating yourself more. Look for a diesel car, which I think helps more in the long run than feel good hybrids. Install a geothermal heating system in your home. Or solar.

And yet these greed hogs still produce RECORD PROFITS and pay obscene bonuses to their damn CEO"S

A few points of order here - the government makes much more in tax off a gallon of gas than the any oil company makes in profits. They're making record profits because of record demand and record market prices. Their profit margins are still in line with historical figures for the industry. You may consider the bonuses and compensation obscene, but that is what the market demands. They're making money for their shareholders and doing a fine job of it. Go get yourself an MBA, work hard for several years and rise through the ranks of a corporation until you're responsible for the jobs of several thousands of people and you can earn similar wages... if your own skills deem you that valuable.

Besides which, even if the CEO's and other upper management weren't paid anything, because of the volume of product they sell and the costs to produce, it wouldn't be enough to drop the price of a gallon of gas even a penny.

Sorry for the rant ----------but i'm not buying that this isnt a contrived situation .-

-Why no new refineries in the last 3 decades ?? Why no goal about energy independence from Middle East oil similar to the goal John Kennedy set in 1960 that within 10 yrs we'd be on the moon . Why ?

There's no incentive to build new refineries. The ones we have currently are keeping up with demand, they operate on relatively small profit margins, they're incredibly expensive and the environmental and safety restrictions and red tape (not to mention local public outcry when one is proposed) means no new refineries. The existing refineries have all expanded output several times, however. It's much easier to do that than build a new one.

I'm probably getting myself into a lot of trouble with this post, but if there's anything I've learned, it's that I'm very good at getting myself into trouble.

 

[Greg]

You may consider the bonuses and compensation obscene, but that is what the market demands. They're making money for their shareholders and doing a fine job of it. Go get yourself an MBA, work hard for several years and rise through the ranks of a corporation until you're responsible for the jobs of several thousands of people and you can earn similar wages... if your own skills deem you that valuable.

BRAVO!!! :beer:

I'll say it again. I still will never understand why those that are successful in life financially are often times looked negatively upon. Maybe a jealousy thing? I don't know, but it doesn't make sense to me...

 

[ctenidae]

Dag, marc stepping up. It must be the re-use of the Bill Avatar. Can't disagree with anything you say.

I will add this- there's no energy independence goal for about 9,824 political reasons, 4,627 economic reasons, and a hand full of environmental reasons.

 

[loafer89]

I really do not have a problem with paying the gas tax, Connecticut has a well maintained, toll free highway system. No other nearby state, save Vermont has 100% toll free roads. Driving from Long Island to Belleayre used to cost me $13.20 in TOLLS alone.

Like I said, we will pay for a reduction in tax now, down the road somewhere.

 

[jack97]

That's good. To continue to help should mean educating yourself more. Look for a diesel car, which I think helps more in the long run than feel good hybrids.

That's interesting, what makes you say that? Is diesel more efficient to make and/or to consume?

 

[ctenidae]

That's interesting, what makes you say that? Is diesel more efficient to make and/or to consume?

Diesels run more efficiently, and the environmental impacts of the hybrid's batteries (plus all teh extra plastic that goes into them) can be substantial. Plus, diesel fuels can be made from a variety of non-petroleum sources.

 

[Greg]

The news on T.V this morning mentioned that the Connecticut legislature is considering a gas tax holiday for this summer's driving season. A $0.25 break per gallon would help a bit, but I am a bit leary of higher taxes somewhere else down the road.

Check this out:

http://www.ct.gov/governorrell/cwp/view.asp?a=1317&q=379690

I agree though. Those lost gas tax revenues will need to be recooped somehow so it's really probably gonna be a wash...