Gore improvements....

[tjf67]

What does that even mean?

They get 150" per year, measured (like all resorts) in a high-elevation, wind-protected spot. That's less than every resort in VT. Less than Whiteface. About equal to the Catskills (Belleayre and Plattekill), much further south. They most certainly do NOT "get the snow".

OK if you say so stay over in Vermont what the heck do i care.

 

[tjf67]

What does that even mean?

They get 150" per year, measured (like all resorts) in a high-elevation, wind-protected spot. That's less than every resort in VT. Less than Whiteface. About equal to the Catskills (Belleayre and Plattekill), much further south. They most certainly do NOT "get the snow".

So all you guys talk about the ski mags and the bias about brands. You dont think the hills have a little hype going when they report snow fall?

So here is the observation from living in tri city area most of my life and traveling around to all the hills. Gore get as much or more snow than all the hills from killington south. I travel to NC every Wed. Have been for a couple of years. They get the snow. From Albany there is not a better mountain closer than Gore. .

 

[mattchuck2]

If you've got the kind of mtn knowledge that Matt has...you probably never see anybody.

True

Gore's trees are open a lot. I have no real data, but I'm guessing some runs are skiable (vs."open") at least 60% of the season. I'd like to hear Matt's guess on that number.

Using skiadk.com as a reference, I find that the glades were open around December 12th during the 2008/2009 season, December 17th in the 2007/2008 season (but closed around January 10th and reopened around January 25th), and January 30th in the 2006/2007 season. After these dates, the glades were "open" until the 1st or 2nd week of April for our skiing pleasure.

So, yeah. The glades are there for the skiing. Sure, some days we get a freeze/thaw and they aren't open. Some days we get an ice storm and they get trashed. And some days conditions just aren't good in there. But the reality remains. If you want trees at Gore (and know where you're going), you can get there. Gore's Glades (ESPECIALLY the dark side - the north side of the mountain) are REALLY good at holding snow and keeping it there. I've had a couple of experiences skiing out west where a lot of the mountain sucked, but there were some places on the mountain (north facing, east facing, etc.) that had sweet conditions. Gore is kind of like that (not that the terrain is similar, just that Gore has a lot of different exposures leading to a lot of different skiing experiences all over the mountain).

More trees for me.

 

[ta&idaho]

Gore's Glades (ESPECIALLY the dark side - the north side of the mountain) are REALLY good at holding snow and keeping it there. I've had a couple of experiences skiing out west where a lot of the mountain sucked, but there were some places on the mountain (north facing, east facing, etc.) that had sweet conditions. Gore is kind of like that (not that the terrain is similar, just that Gore has a lot of different exposures leading to a lot of different skiing experiences all over the mountain).

That makes a lot of sense. Some places in Tahoe definitely exhibit this phenomenom.

I'm excited to check it out...

 

[Tin Woodsman]

OK if you say so stay over in Vermont what the heck do i care.

Well apparently you do care, since you insisted that "they get the snow" when provided with conclusive facts that they do not. If you get your knickers in a twist by my pointing out where you were quite wrong, that sounds like your problem, not mine.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

So all you guys talk about the ski mags and the bias about brands. You dont think the hills have a little hype going when they report snow fall?

So here is the observation from living in tri city area most of my life and traveling around to all the hills. Gore get as much or more snow than all the hills from killington south. I travel to NC every Wed. Have been for a couple of years. They get the snow. From Albany there is not a better mountain closer than Gore. .

Right - as if Gore is unique among ski areas in reporting their snow totals with complete accuracy. If there is bias, they are likely all biased. Regardless, it is not opinion but rather established fact that the Southern Greens get more snow than the southwest corner of the Dacks. Even if you discount some 50 years of ski resort data, this is still born out by hydrological data and NWS data from spotters located in high elevation locales.

If you want to say that from Albany there isn't a better mountain closer than Gore, that seems very much true. But they don't get the snow. Not even close.

 

[AdironRider]

So youre saying Mt. Snow and Magic get more and therefor better snow than Gore? Noone said Gore gets as much snow as Killington or Stowe or Jay, but rather that Gore gets more snow than any of the Catskill areas and certainly holds it longer than most places. But I guess you can just stay in southern VT, riding park at Mt Snow or you might get lucky and get a decent Magic which barely can afford to turn the lifts, let alone set up a base with any decent amount of snowmaking. Suhweet. Clearly Tin, you win.

 

[kcyanks1]

True, but I could always use less people on the mountain . . . Hunter Rules!!!!!



Using skiadk.com as a reference, I find that the glades were open around December 12th during the 2008/2009 season, December 17th in the 2007/2008 season (but closed around January 10th and reopened around January 25th), and January 30th in the 2006/2007 season. After these dates, the glades were "open" until the 1st or 2nd week of April for our skiing pleasure.

So, yeah. The glades are there for the skiing. Sure, some days we get a freeze/thaw and they aren't open. Some days we get an ice storm and they get trashed. And some days conditions just aren't good in there. But the reality remains. If you want trees at Gore (and know where you're going), you can get there. Gore's Glades (ESPECIALLY the dark side - the north side of the mountain) are REALLY good at holding snow and keeping it there. I've had a couple of experiences skiing out west where a lot of the mountain sucked, but there were some places on the mountain (north facing, east facing, etc.) that had sweet conditions. Gore is kind of like that (not that the terrain is similar, just that Gore has a lot of different exposures leading to a lot of different skiing experiences all over the mountain).

But like I said. If you don't want to go there, fine. More trees for me.

You have more experience than me, especially in recent years. But when I skied there more often when I was younger, mostly before they added a lot of glades but during the time they added Chatiemac, Straightbrook, Twister, and Tahawus glades, the glades seemed to be open irregularly at least from my visits. Also, at that time it seemed like trails on which they didn't make snow, namely Upper Darby and Lower Steiling (with a couple exceptions), were almost never open. I wouldn't be surprised if there were full seasons when those trails never opened or were open no more than a handful of days in the late 1980s through 1990s.

Around elementary-school or junior-high time, based on my experience at Gore, I was mind-boggled how a place like MRG that hardly makes snow could exist in the east. I realize this is all very unscientific. But my personal experience, for what the sample-size is worth, is that Gore doesn't manage to keep glades or natural-snow trails open nearly with the regularity that northern VT areas do, at least. I realize the comparison here is more Gore vs. southern VT, of which I don't have enough experience to say much.

I will admit that the snow is not the only problem; Gore also seems less willing than other mountains to open trails with marginal conditions. But I do think the snow difference between gore and N.Vt is substantial and it leads to Gore not being able to keep open natural terrain throughout the season.

Edit: To give Gore somewhat of a benefit of the doubt, when I was younger I also wasn't seeking off-trail experiences to the extent I do now, and also was probably myself more concerned about marginal conditions than I am now.

 

[tjf67]

Well apparently you do care, since you insisted that "they get the snow" when provided with conclusive facts that they do not. If you get your knickers in a twist by my pointing out where you were quite wrong, that sounds like your problem, not mine.

There is not a problem that I am aware of.. I was just pointing out to people on here what a great hill gore has become, and they most certainly get snow. I have snomobiled all over the southern greens. If you think there is more snow from Mount Snow up through Manchester than in North Creek going out toward indian lake you are mistaken. keep doing what you are doing.

 

[witch hobble]

Not so long ago, most northeastern skiers were indifferent about or oblivious to Gore mountain.

L. Steilhang has had snowmaking on it the last 4 or 5 years. It is open much more often now, altho often the headwall has great pyramid shaped moguls and icy, banana shaped troughs eight feet deep and 12 feet long. Generally better to duck to the right.

 

[kcyanks1]

Not so long ago, most northeastern skiers were indifferent about or oblivious to Gore mountain.

L. Steilhang has had snowmaking on it the last 4 or 5 years. It is open much more often now, altho often the headwall has great pyramid shaped moguls and icy, banana shaped troughs eight feet deep and 12 feet long. Generally better to duck to the right.

Even back then, there was a least one year where they made snow on it. Upper Darby I think even technically has snowmaking capabilities, but it has never been used there. I have skied Chatiemac a couple times without snowmaking, and some trails on the North side. Powder Pass never has snowmaking (I don't believe it has snowmaking capabilities even), and sometimes in more recent years they have let other trails on the North side go natural ("Natural North"). It just doesn't seem like a sustainable approach for Gore for trails that they want to have open throughout most of the season on a reliable basis.

Since some people were comparing to the Catskills, from my few visits to Hunter, Gore does *seem* to get more snow or at least hold it better than Hunter. So I'd give Gore the edge over the Catskills. Again, I don't know enough about southern VT. I would think at minimum Okemo and north probably beat out Gore snow-wise, though I'd take Gore over Okemo overall because of the terrain.

 

[witch hobble]

I think that line on Darby is a dead end, de-activated line. Bit of a xmas tree farm these days. The Natual North thing is so it can be open after early season storms before that side has become a priority. I don't think it is sustainable at all. But it is fun, low angle stuff. Those trails generally only see a day or two of snowmaking during the season, and hold their snow a long time.

I have skied Gore and SVT pretty extensively and can say that the difference in snowfall is not worth the keystrokes necessary for an argument. And I know little to nothing of the Catskills.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

So youre saying Mt. Snow and Magic get more and therefor better snow than Gore?

Who said that other than you? Stop arguing against a strawman. Gore is a great mountain and I'd much rather ski there than Mt. Snow or possibly even Magic on most days but, that doesn't mean "they get the snow."

Noone said Gore gets as much snow as Killington or Stowe or Jay, but rather that Gore gets more snow than any of the Catskill areas and certainly holds it longer than most places.

You're right, no one claimed they get as much snow as northern VT. Then again, the original claim had nothing to do with a comparison to the Catskills either. Moreover, if that's what you are comparing yourself too in terms of snowfall, then that's a pretty low bar. Gore gets more than the Poconos too, but I wouldn't be crowing about it. Regardless, it's factually incorrect anyway, as Plattekill and the apparently defunct Bobcat get quite a bit more snow than Gore.

But I guess you can just stay in southern VT, riding park at Mt Snow or you might get lucky and get a decent Magic which barely can afford to turn the lifts, let alone set up a base with any decent amount of snowmaking. Suhweet. Clearly Tin, you win.

The only thing I win is the crown for making you look silly, as you attempt to ride to the rescue of a mountain in the Adirondacks yet again. The first person to make the Magic/Mt Snow comparison was you. Look, up in the sky! Is it a bird? A plane? No! It's Adirondack Strawman!

Try again.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Since some people were comparing to the Catskills, from my few visits to Hunter, Gore does *seem* to get more snow or at least hold it better than Hunter. So I'd give Gore the edge over the Catskills. Again, I don't know enough about southern VT. I would think at minimum Okemo and north probably beat out Gore snow-wise, though I'd take Gore over Okemo overall because of the terrain.

I'd agree with all of this. From a terrain, variety and snowfall perspective, none of the places in the Catskills can hold Gore's jock. And while Okemo is bigger and may have more reliable on-trail conditions, Gore has a lot more to offer for those who haven't been lobotomized. In fact, the only place that would be in the conversation with Gore among resorts at an equivalent or lower latitude is Magic b/c of the glades, vibe and lack of crowds. Gore may not get the snow, but it has a lot going for it.

 

[tjf67]

Tinman

The only thing I win is the crown for making you look silly, as you attempt to ride to the rescue of a mountain in the Adirondacks yet again. The first person to make the Magic/Mt Snow comparison was you. Look, up in the sky! Is it a bird? A plane? No! It's Adirondack Strawman!

Try again


I dont understand why you are being such a douche. Please advise.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I dont understand why you are being such a douche. Please advise.

Let's recap:

1) You say of Gore "They get the snow."

2) I say "No, they don't" and provide figures to illustrate that Gore is, in fact, near the bottom of the pile among large/major resorts in terms of annual snowfall. Unnoticed, naturally, is that I compliment Gore for having a lot going for it in other areas.

3) You get your feelings hurt, and start telling me to "stay in VT".

4) Adiron Rider rushes to your defense with the classic "Dacks are teh bestest!!!11" "Stay at Magic and Mt. Snow"

5) You both get called out for this silliness.

What have I missed here?

 

[EPB]

"Let's recap:

1) You say of Gore "They get the snow."

2) I say "No, they don't" and provide figures to illustrate that Gore is, in fact, near the bottom of the pile among large/major resorts in terms of annual snowfall. Unnoticed, naturally, is that I compliment Gore for having a lot going for it in other areas.

3) You get your feelings hurt, and start telling me to "stay in VT".

4) Adiron Rider rushes to your defense with the classic "Dacks are teh bestest!!!11" "Stay at Magic and Mt. Snow"

5) You both get called out for this silliness.

What have I missed here?"

I rarely post on this forum. I mostly just use it to gain perspective, but Tin Woodsman's relentless efforts to prove how smart he is cannot go unaddressed.
Because logical fallacies were brought into this thread, I'll start by pointing out that many in this forum believe that overestimates of average annual snowfall vary by resort and are not necessarily useful for comparison. Stowe's advertised snowfall has jumped from 250 inches to 333 in recent years most likely because the clowns at AIG figured they were fudging all their other numbers, so what the heck? Sugarloaf's numbers have been listed as high as 240 inches per season and they have since backed down to around 200.

It is also evident that Tin Woodsman is so obnoxiously particular and stubborn that he fails to acknowledge that "GETTING the snow" isn't even as important as "HAVING the snow". Jay Peak closed "Sis Boom Bah" a few years back because it didn't retain the alleged 350+ inches of snow that it received. Getting the snow was really not the issue.

As far as personal attacks are concerned, since when are people able to psychoanalyze via online forum? Tone doesn't show up through text, and it's downright unreasonable to claim that you understand the manner in which people make their statements in posts.

I will, however, venture a guess as to why the 150 inches of snowfall is such a pressing issue to you. Sunday River has claimed around 155 inches of snowfall (now inflated to 167) and they boast the only glades to feature snowmaking that I have ever encountered. What's that one on the skiers left called again?

 

[campgottagopee]

"Let's recap:

1) You say of Gore "They get the snow."

2) I say "No, they don't" and provide figures to illustrate that Gore is, in fact, near the bottom of the pile among large/major resorts in terms of annual snowfall. Unnoticed, naturally, is that I compliment Gore for having a lot going for it in other areas.

3) You get your feelings hurt, and start telling me to "stay in VT".

4) Adiron Rider rushes to your defense with the classic "Dacks are teh bestest!!!11" "Stay at Magic and Mt. Snow"

5) You both get called out for this silliness.

What have I missed here?"

I rarely post on this forum. I mostly just use it to gain perspective, but Tin Woodsman's relentless efforts to prove how smart he is cannot go unaddressed.
Because logical fallacies were brought into this thread, I'll start by pointing out that many in this forum believe that overestimates of average annual snowfall vary by resort and are not necessarily useful for comparison. Stowe's advertised snowfall has jumped from 250 inches to 333 in recent years most likely because the clowns at AIG figured they were fudging all their other numbers, so what the heck? Sugarloaf's numbers have been listed as high as 240 inches per season and they have since backed down to around 200.

It is also evident that Tin Woodsman is so obnoxiously particular and stubborn that he fails to acknowledge that "GETTING the snow" isn't even as important as "HAVING the snow". Jay Peak closed "Sis Boom Bah" a few years back because it didn't retain the alleged 350+ inches of snow that it received. Getting the snow was really not the issue.

As far as personal attacks are concerned, since when are people able to psychoanalyze via online forum? Tone doesn't show up through text, and it's downright unreasonable to claim that you understand the manner in which people make their statements in posts.

I will, however, venture a guess as to why the 150 inches of snowfall is such a pressing issue to you. Sunday River has claimed around 155 inches of snowfall (now inflated to 167) and they boast the only glades to feature snowmaking that I have ever encountered. What's that one on the skiers left called again?

You should post more often

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I rarely post on this forum. I mostly just use it to gain perspective, but Tin Woodsman's relentless efforts to prove how smart he is cannot go unaddressed.

Really? It doesn't take a genius to see that 150" doesn't constitute "getting the snow" in any meaningful sense of the term. Taking 2 seconds to look up published anual snowfall stats isn't that much work. If that equates to a relentless effort to prove how smart I am, then guilty as charged.

Because logical fallacies were brought into this thread, I'll start by pointing out that many in this forum believe that overestimates of average annual snowfall vary by resort and are not necessarily useful for comparison. Stowe's advertised snowfall has jumped from 250 inches to 333 in recent years most likely because the clowns at AIG figured they were fudging all their other numbers, so what the heck? Sugarloaf's numbers have been listed as high as 240 inches per season and they have since backed down to around 200.

This is rich. You start by making claims of logical fallacies, and then go on to make a claim that somehow AIG mgmt is influencing the snowfall numbers that Stowe reports. Pot, meet kettle. You may be right - but the conspiracy goes well beyond what you've alluded to here. In fact, it seems that Bolton Valley and Smugglers Notch are in on it too! The former claims to receive 312" per year, despite being 600' lower in elevation and w/o the benefit of 4000' mountains surrounding it. Smuggs just next door receives 321" per year according to Tony Crocker and the NWS spotter at the base. It's a vast, right wing conspiracy!!! Or maybe you might be aware that many resorts use a 20 year moving average and, as you'll recall, the 80s weren't all that great for snowfall.

You quite literally have zero point here. Sorry of my online persona rubs you the wrong way, but please come to the table with facts instead of a dilettante's understanding of the issue.

It is also evident that Tin Woodsman is so obnoxiously particular and stubborn that he fails to acknowledge that "GETTING the snow" isn't even as important as "HAVING the snow". Jay Peak closed "Sis Boom Bah" a few years back because it didn't retain the alleged 350+ inches of snow that it received. Getting the snow was really not the issue.

If you were talking specifically about Sis-Boom-Bah and someone claimed it "got the snow", I would almost certainly have chimed in that it doesn't hold the snow, so it's irrelevant. In a similar manner, I've made no statements regarding Gore's ability to hold the snow. In fact, I've heard great things in that regard about the Darkside with its northerly aspect and relatively narrow, protected trails. That's a LOT different than saying "they get the snow", especially when only a small portion of Gore's terrain actually faces north and can take advantage of the snow retention assets that the Darkside has.

As far as personal attacks are concerned, since when are people able to psychoanalyze via online forum? Tone doesn't show up through text, and it's downright unreasonable to claim that you understand the manner in which people make their statements in posts.

"they get the snow" - what's to psychoanalyze? All I've seen is a bunch of guys butthurt over a perceived slight regarding on of their favorite resorts. No psychoanalysis needed.

I will, however, venture a guess as to why the 150 inches of snowfall is such a pressing issue to you. Sunday River has claimed around 155 inches of snowfall (now inflated to 167) and they boast the only glades to feature snowmaking that I have ever encountered. What's that one on the skiers left called again?

There's comedy. There's high comedy. And then there's the fact that I've skied Sunday River but once about 20 years ago and came away unimpressed. I love how you ascribe my motivations as having something to do with defending a place I could care less about. As if there is some sort of online ski area popularity contest I'm desperate to engage in. Who is really that pathetic?

Get a clue and some facts and then come back when you're prepared.

 

[EPB]

A. I never said that you thought you were smart for looking up facts. A good example would be referring to my understanding of bogus snow totals as "dilettante's understanding of the issue" because that implies that you are some sort of professional. I didn't know there were professional Northeastern ski area snowfall specialists.
B. You still have given no reason for skeptics to believe that ski resorts cheat equally in their reports.
C. You danced around my point about holding snow being more important than snowfall totals. Instead you went off topic and appealed to your alleged professional authority on the matter of increasingly inflated measurements. (Missing the point fallacy?)
D. Telling people their feelings are hurt is a psychoanalytical remark. Someone as arrogant as you should be smart enough to realize you told people how they were feeling through the internet and that's downright ridiculous.
E. The SR thing was a joke for good fun.