Gore improvements....

[catskills]

On snowcoutry Gore lists 400 acres of skiable trails where 57 percent is intermediate. Gore says they have 228 acres of intermediate trails, which is double Whiteface, Hunter, and Belleayre. Are these Gore stats real or made up ?

Further down it says Gore has 95% snowmaking and 285 acres covered by snowmaking. 95 percent of 400 acres is 380 acres. Someone at Gore failed math class. Not sure what to belive with Gore stats.

Whitface total skiable acres is 282 with 36 percent intermediate. Total 102 intermediate acres.

Hunter Mtn total skiable acres is 240 with 30 percent intermediate. Total 72 intermediate acres.

Windham skiable acres is 265 with 45 percent intermediate Total 119 intermediate acres.

Belleayre skiable acres is 171 with 62 percent intermediate Total 106 intermediate acres.

I realize most people here in this forum ski and ride expert trails. Reality is that most skiers and riders spend their time on intermediate trails.

 

[witch hobble]

On snowcoutry Gore lists 400 acres of skiable trails where 57 percent is intermediate. Gore says they have 228 acres of intermediate trails, which is double Whiteface, Hunter, and Belleayre. Are these Gore stats real or made up ?

Further down it says Gore has 95% snowmaking and 285 acres covered by snowmaking. 95 percent of 400 acres is 380 acres. Someone at Gore failed math class. Not sure what to belive with Gore stats.

Whitface total skiable acres is 282 with 36 percent intermediate. Total 102 intermediate acres.

Hunter Mtn total skiable acres is 240 with 30 percent intermediate. Total 72 intermediate acres.

Windham skiable acres is 265 with 45 percent intermediate Total 119 intermediate acres.

Belleayre skiable acres is 171 with 62 percent intermediate Total 106 intermediate acres.

I realize most people here in this forum ski and ride expert trails. Reality is that most skiers and riders spend their time on intermediate trails.

I hesitate to push this shitstorm further along, but looking at that stat sheet for Gore I would say that their glades are included, rightfully, in the skiable acres, but excluded below in the percentages of terrain/acres/snowmaking portion of the data. They probably do have a little over 100 acres of "on map" glades to make up the rest. And many, many more "skiable" acres of bastard glades to poke around in.

Or it could all be bullshit. Smoke and mirrors. Liars use statistics, blah blah. You might want to cut the drive short in the Catskills or push on to the MRV or points north. Or move out west. Or to New Hampshire.

 

[tjf67]

On snowcoutry Gore lists 400 acres of skiable trails where 57 percent is intermediate. Gore says they have 228 acres of intermediate trails, which is double Whiteface, Hunter, and Belleayre. Are these Gore stats real or made up ?

Further down it says Gore has 95% snowmaking and 285 acres covered by snowmaking. 95 percent of 400 acres is 380 acres. Someone at Gore failed math class. Not sure what to belive with Gore stats.

Whitface total skiable acres is 282 with 36 percent intermediate. Total 102 intermediate acres.

Hunter Mtn total skiable acres is 240 with 30 percent intermediate. Total 72 intermediate acres.

Windham skiable acres is 265 with 45 percent intermediate Total 119 intermediate acres.

Belleayre skiable acres is 171 with 62 percent intermediate Total 106 intermediate acres.

I realize most people here in this forum ski and ride expert trails. Reality is that most skiers and riders spend their time on intermediate trails.

When they quote snowmaking number glades are not included.

 

[tjf67]

Let's recap:

1) You say of Gore "They get the snow."

2) I say "No, they don't" and provide figures to illustrate that Gore is, in fact, near the bottom of the pile among large/major resorts in terms of annual snowfall. Unnoticed, naturally, is that I compliment Gore for having a lot going for it in other areas.

3) You get your feelings hurt, and start telling me to "stay in VT".

4) Adiron Rider rushes to your defense with the classic "Dacks are teh bestest!!!11" "Stay at Magic and Mt. Snow"

5) You both get called out for this silliness.

What have I missed here?

UMMM you are off your rocker. You got all of that out of my posts. GEEZ i guess i owe you an apology then. Tin man for president

 

[EPB]

Tin man for president

Agreed..... All kidding aside, I'm done with this thread. It was interesting to say the least.

 

[mattchuck2]

On snowcoutry Gore lists 400 acres of skiable trails where 57 percent is intermediate. Gore says they have 228 acres of intermediate trails, which is double Whiteface, Hunter, and Belleayre. Are these Gore stats real or made up ?

Further down it says Gore has 95% snowmaking and 285 acres covered by snowmaking. 95 percent of 400 acres is 380 acres. Someone at Gore failed math class. Not sure what to belive with Gore stats.

Gore definitely has a lot of Intermediate terrain. Just about the entire lower mountain (plus the north chair stuff) is intermediate. The 95% number might be 95% of the trails have snowmaking on them. Therefore, the numbers (as you read them) can still be correct (A long trail - with a lot of acres - might not have snowmaking on it, so it would drive down the acres covered by snowmaking, but retain the 95% of total trails number). That's just a guess.

Offhand, it's hard for me to think of trails without snowmaking at Gore . . . Obviously Dark Side Glades, Double Barrel, and High Pines glades don't have snowmaking, but those are listed as Glades and might not count towards the statistics . . . Ummmm . . Hmmm . . . Powder Pass doesn't have snowmaking? Pete Gay? Like I said, it's hard to think of trails without it.

But yes, I would say that Gore probably does have more intermediate terrain than Whiteface and Hunter. This is easy to see if you look at the Trail maps for those mountains. The problem is that the runs are a lot shorter, so you don't get the sustained vertical of an Excelsior or a Belt Parkway . . .

 

[Harvey]

I wish I knew why I don't get notified of action on AZ threads I've posted on...this is great stuff, mostly.

Wow...quite the blog. I've spent most of my morning poking around and checking out the Gore pics. http://harvey44.blogspot.com

Thanks TA.

Not so long ago, most northeastern skiers were indifferent about or oblivious to Gore mountain.

Still true IMO.

L. Steilhang has had snowmaking on it the last 4 or 5 years. It is open much more often now, altho often the headwall has great pyramid shaped moguls and icy, banana shaped troughs eight feet deep and 12 feet long. Generally better to duck to the right.

LOVE those banana moguls. Great name for em too. Also love ducking to the right.

Stowe's advertised snowfall has jumped from 250 inches to 333 in recent years most likely because the clowns at AIG figured they were fudging all their other numbers, so what the heck?

Freakin hilarous.

My two cents on Gore, the appeal of Gore and snowfall.

I haven't studied it but I'm pretty sure that anything on the Green Mtn spine is going to beat Gore for total snowfall in an average season. That north-south running ridge creates it's own snow in a way that Gore never will. The effect is more dramatic from MRG north but it exist all the way down the spine. And I've seen plumes of lake effect reach Killington, when Gore was getting skunked. Gore's in a snow shadow... the spine that's west of Indian Lake... Snowy and Squaw steal a lot of what seems to be headed to Gore.

Obviously new snow, and the ability to hold it, are key elements that make a mountain great. Gore's appeal is about something beyond it's 3600' summit and 150" of snow. Almost every inch of that summit bowl is skiable and it's only got 8-10 trails on it. There's all that stuff outside of the summit bowl. There's the Darkside, The North Side, the Cirque and Burnt Ridge, The new Ski Bowl. What I've listed is more than most could ski in a day, and it's all on the map. There's even more off the map than on it. I've been skiing there for quite a while and I'm literally clueless about 50% of the tree skiing Gore offers. When the mountain is OPEN it's HUGE. I grant you that it's not always open due to midweek lift closures and snow issues. But the Gore faithful know the day will come.

Another thing some like about Gore....IMO if Gore got 250" of snow, North Creek would be more like the Killington access road. I think the financial pressure to develop the real estate would overwhelm North Creek. Hey I like Killington. A lot. But the Adks are special, and part of the reason they are so well protected is back when it all happened people figured ...what the heck... we can't make any money there anyway. Let's protect it. I not sure it was done out of pure concern for the environment.

EDIT: Two snowfall maps to add to the discussion. First the "snow shadow" that Gore is in:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/09/new-york-state-snowfall-map.html

Second, a map that compares Southern VT to Gore for snow:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/09/kalb-snowfall-map.html

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I dont understand why you are being such a douche. Please advise.

:smile:

(i missed all the excitement of this thread! me thinks tin's obsession with inches stems from a more personal issue than his preferences of hills in vermont over hills in the adirondacks.)

 

[witch hobble]

Trails not listed as glades that don't have snowmaking?

Upper Darby
Mica Park
North Star (Powder Pass does. And those two names should really be switched)
Wood Out
Ward Hill
Cut Off
Jug Handle
1A

Mostly extraneous stuff there.
There are probably some others I've forgotten.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

A. I never said that you thought you were smart for looking up facts. A good example would be referring to my understanding of bogus snow totals as "dilettante's understanding of the issue" because that implies that you are some sort of professional. I didn't know there were professional Northeastern ski area snowfall specialists.

More misdirection. Yes - claiming that Gore is somehow standing apart form the crowd in not inflating their snowfall totals represents a dilettante's understanding of the issue. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. Are you implying that the great State of NY is somehow above such impropriety given what a clean record its state politics have? My God you are incredibly naive.

B. You still have given no reason for skeptics to believe that ski resorts cheat equally in their reports.

See my answer above. Regardless, What would be Gore's motivation for being the sole ski area not goosing their totals? More importantly, why would the NWS spotter at the base of Smugglers Notch lie? I mean, sure - those evil bastards at AIG are surely scheming in their guilded board room to inflate the snow totals at their ski area, but does such logic hold for smaller, family run areas like Bolton Valley and Smuggs? You've made a wild accusation with absolutely no supporting facts, yet the burden of proof is on me?

C. You danced around my point about holding snow being more important than snowfall totals. Instead you went off topic and appealed to your alleged professional authority on the matter of increasingly inflated measurements. (Missing the point fallacy?)

I didn't dance around it at all. Gore holds snow well on its few north facing aspects. That has nothing, ZERO to do with whether "they get the snow", which they don't. If you want to change the subject and pretend like that's what we've been talking about all along, be my guest. Let's just be clear regarding what you're doing.

D. Telling people their feelings are hurt is a psychoanalytical remark. Someone as arrogant as you should be smart enough to realize you told people how they were feeling through the internet and that's downright ridiculous.

Let's see now. I make a throw-away comment that Gore doesn't "get the snow" and the responses I receive include not a single relevant fact regarding comparative snowfalls, but rather just obfuscation and exhortations to stay in Southern VT or some such nonsense which had never been mentioned by me. Sounds like I struck a nerve and people jumped over themselves to defend their fave-o hill/region.

E. The SR thing was a joke for good fun.

You suck at the Internet. Keep lurking.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I haven't studied it but I'm pretty sure that anything on the Green Mtn spine is going to beat Gore for total snowfall in an average season. That north-south running ridge creates it's own snow in a way that Gore never will. The effect is more dramatic from MRG north but it exist all the way down the spine. And I've seen plumes of lake effect reach Killington, when Gore was getting skunked. Gore's in a snow shadow... the spine that's west of Indian Lake... Snowy and Squaw steal a lot of what seems to be headed to Gore.

Obviously new snow, and the ability to hold it, are key elements that make a mountain great. Gore's appeal is about something beyond it's 3600' summit and 150" of snow. Almost every inch of that summit bowl is skiable and it's only got 8-10 trails on it. There's all that stuff outside of the summit bowl. There's the Darkside, The North Side, the Cirque and Burnt Ridge, The new Ski Bowl. What I've listed is more than most could ski in a day, and it's all on the map. There's even more off the map than on it. I've been skiing there for quite a while and I'm literally clueless about 50% of the tree skiing Gore offers. When the mountain is OPEN it's HUGE. I grant you that it's not always open due to midweek lift closures and snow issues. But the Gore faithful know the day will come.

Another thing some like about Gore....IMO if Gore got 250" of snow, North Creek would be more like the Killington access road. I think the financial pressure to develop the real estate would overwhelm North Creek. Hey I like Killington. A lot. But the Adks are special, and part of the reason they are so well protected is back when it all happened people figured ...what the heck... we can't make any money there anyway. Let's protect it. I not sure it was done out of pure concern for the environment.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If Gore got another 100", it would be up there among the giants of Eastern skiing. Lots of terrain. Unlimited snowmaking water. Convenient access to the NY metro. Real town near the base. The whole enchilada.

EDIT: Two snowfall maps to add to the discussion. First the "snow shadow" that Gore is in:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/09/new-york-state-snowfall-map.html

Second, a map that compares Southern VT to Gore for snow:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/09/kalb-snowfall-map.html

Say it ain't so Harv! Are you in on AIG's evil conspiracy too? Is the NWS office in ALB also involved? The horror! The horror!

I would hope we can all agree, based on these maps (except for the tinfoil hat crowd out there) that while Gore is a great mtn, it most certainly doesn't "get the snow" as compared to the majority of its peers in Northern NE.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

tin woodsman managed to turn a thread about someone's excitement over improvements at a ski resort into multiple attacks using SAT words. nice. imo, he's strangely like highwaystar in this thread, only, instead of ranting about against k-mart's owners, he's ranting against fans of gore. pretty pathetic.

i can't believe gss gets banned, but this sustained attack against multiple posters is tolerated.

whatever.

 

[witch hobble]

I feel like I'm in some sort of internet prison with this thread. Laying low while some tough guys at the next table try to make each other their bitch.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

tin woodsman managed to turn a thread about someone's excitement over improvements at a ski resort into multiple attacks using SAT words. nice. imo, he's strangely like highwaystar in this thread, only, instead of ranting about against k-mart's owners, he's ranting against fans of gore. pretty pathetic.

i can't believe gss gets banned, but this sustained attack against multiple posters is tolerated.

whatever.

If you took a moment to read from the beginning, you'd notice that I had a lot of nice things to say about Gore, but simply took exception to one poster's comment that "they get the snow".

They don't.

It's empirically true.

Some people have a problem with my pointing that fact out. If SAT level words annoy you, that's your problem. Should I just use jive next time? Maybe just use texting short hand?

For the umpteenth time, Gore is a great mountain with a huge variety of terrain and aspects. Given its size and lift lay-out, crowds are almost never a problem if you take a moment to think about where you want to go and when. It has almost unlimited snowmaking capacity. But for a significant deficiency in the natural snowfall department, it would be among the elite resorts in the East. Those people who don't recognize it has a snowfall deficiency, or are convinced that all the other mountains are simply lying about their snowfall totals despite empirical NWS evidence, need to wake up and get a clue. If they have a problem with me pointing this deficiency out, then I can't help them. Grow up.

 

[campgottagopee]

If you took a moment to read from the beginning, you'd notice that I had a lot of nice things to say about Gore, but simply took exception to one poster's comment that "they get the snow".

They don't.

It's empirically true.

Some people have a problem with my pointing that fact out. If SAT level words annoy you, that's your problem. Should I just use jive next time? Maybe just use texting short hand?

For the umpteenth time, Gore is a great mountain with a huge variety of terrain and aspects. Given its size and lift lay-out, crowds are almost never a problem if you take a moment to think about where you want to go and when. It has almost unlimited snowmaking capacity. But for a significant deficiency in the natural snowfall department, it would be among the elite resorts in the East. Those people who don't recognize it has a snowfall deficiency, or are convinced that all the other mountains are simply lying about their snowfall totals despite empirical NWS evidence, need to wake up and get a clue. If they have a problem with me pointing this deficiency out, then I can't help them. Grow up.

I just can't get over how smart you are---thank you for sharing such knowledge---what a wordsmith

 

[Newpylong]

If you're going to use SAT words at least use the right ones. Stating a mountain "empirically" doesn't get snow doesn't exactly help your cause. That word means that your conclusion is based on experimentation or even observation to form a conclusion. A better word is perhaps evidence or proof - aka SNOW totals don't lie.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I just can't get over how smart you are---thank you for sharing such knowledge---what a wordsmith

Yes - let us make an assault on knowledge, vocabulary and proper grammar!

 

[Tin Woodsman]

If you're going to use SAT words at least use the right ones. Stating a mountain "empirically" doesn't get snow doesn't exactly help your cause. That word means that your conclusion is based on experimentation or even observation to form a conclusion. A better word is perhaps evidence or proof - aka SNOW totals don't lie.

Wait - I'm genuinely confused. I don't get why the use of "empirically" in that instance would be incorrect. The snowfall at Gore and other ski areas HAS been measured and observed over a statistically significant period of time, no?

Even if one doesn't believe the snowfall totals claimed by the ski areas themselves, then surely the maps posted by Harvey44 which were produced by the scientists at the NWS office in Albany meet the relevant tests. What am I missing?

 

[campgottagopee]

Yes - let us make an assault on knowledge, vocabulary and proper grammar!

Oh hells bells no---such a scholar as yourself should know that was a compliment not an assault. I deeply appologize ifin it was taken the wrong way. Anyone who can use the word "buthurt" in a sentance and make it work is da man in my book.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

Oh hells bells no---such a scholar as yourself should know that was a compliment not an assault. I deeply appologize ifin it was taken the wrong way. Anyone who can use the word "buthurt" in a sentance and make it work is da man in my book.

The day after I went to the Thai restaurant and had that spicy food, my buthurt.