Great top to bottom runs!

[JimG.]

HPD - you almost sound like you think discussion of places like Stowe are somehow discouraged here.

No, not discouraged, but the discussions about Stowe seem to tend towards the expense side of the ledger. The one guy who raves about Stowe, JD, earns all his turns and doesn't ride the lifts. One thing I do note is that when folks who wonder about why Stowe is so expensive actually go there, they often change their tune about the place because of the outstanding terrain.

To get back on topic, some of my absolute favorite top to bottom runs are at Stowe, runs like Goat, Starr, and Lookout. All classics.

 

[Greg]

No, not discouraged, but the discussions about Stowe seem to tend towards the expense side of the ledger. The one guy who raves about Stowe, JD, earns all his turns and doesn't ride the lifts. One thing I do note is that when folks who wonder about why Stowe is so expensive actually go there, they often change their tune about the place because of the outstanding terrain.

That's not how I interpreted HPD's posts. In any event, I hope to try Stowe someday as well as Whiteface which I think has almost as strong a following here as Sugarbush or Burke.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

HPD - you almost sound like you think discussion of places like Stowe are somehow discouraged here. I think there just happens to be a lot of Sugarbush lovers here. The same could be said about Burke or Sugarloaf...

Not discouraged and I clearly put a wink in. UR right I believe this place is full of Bushies and that's ok. I beliveve TinWoody and the all knowing AHM have pointed out on other threads that this for some reason frustrates me. It's just that there are other good places, blah, blah, blah, blah, no one wants to hear this rant again.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

That's not how I interpreted HPD's posts. In any event, I hope to try Stowe someday as well as Whiteface which I think has almost as strong a following here as Sugarbush or Burke.

Besides A-ride, 46er and Willy I can't think of any other WF aficionados. Hope I didn't forget anyone.

 

[Greg]

Besides A-ride, 46er and Willy I can't think of any other WF aficionados. Hope I didn't forget anyone.

Well, your the top 16th poster so even via you alone, da Face is pretty well represented. You have to admit that you haven't seen the same number of Iceface slams that show up elsewhere...

 

[kcyanks1]

Stowe does not get the play it deserves in AZ land. Here Sugarbush is king for most.

Well I do love Sugarbush. Stowe would have to be pretty incredible to beat it. From what I've heard, I would expect that some of Stowe's backcountry is comparable or better to what SB has to offer (though might require more work to get to it), but it doesn't seem that Stowe's marked terrain is as good. Of course, I haven't skied it myself, so I can't give any personal opinions. I wasn't terribly impressed with Liftline or the lower half of National, but I know those are the weaker two of the Front Four. I was able to ski Goat from the Liftline cut-in down (the top was closed). Not good conditions when I was there, but I could see that it could be promising, but I don't think I'd stick that portion of the trail (yes, I know I missed the most challenging part) above the stuff on Castlerock.

 

[JimG.]

That's not how I interpreted HPD's posts. In any event, I hope to try Stowe someday as well as Whiteface which I think has almost as strong a following here as Sugarbush or Burke.

HPD's on his own with this one dude...I was agreeing with you that discussion is not discouraged, but that the discussion you do see often discourages folks from going there because it is pricey.

 

[riverc0il]

in my opinion, stowe is a better area than bush. but mansfield has the best lift accessed backcountry in the north east from all reports (can't say i have sampled any of it yet sadly, but i have seen the pics and the people making that claim have my full respect). even discounting lift accessed BC, i still enjoyed stowe lift serviced MUCH more than bush. having never skied rock at bush, perhaps that is premature, but even if rock is all that and a bag of chips (which i fully believe), i still don't see how it could be better than stowe. i only wish it wasn't so expensive or else it would probably be my season pass (but that is exactly why it is so expensive, they can afford to turn away the majority of skiers and riders because the demand is just that high). i just can't see buying a pass for stowe when jay is more than twice as cheap. gotta love vermonter and can drive days though! and now that i have my arm back, i'll be hoofing it too. stowe deserves the bad wrap for the prices, totally. but it really is the mecha of the east coast skiing and i rate their terrain very highly. probably the most continuous vertical top to bottom trails per acre in all of new england. the gondi trails, while not my cup of tea, are some of the best top to bottom blue square cruisers around. liftline and national are not hard trails and don't deserve double black ratings, but they are quality and fun top to bottom runs. chin clip also rates high for top to bottom. i sadly missed lookout, starr, and goat my only time there, but maaaaaaaan did they look good despite the rope (i was a good doobie that day). very satisfying trees.

so yea, add most of stowe for great top to bottom trails.

i don't think of jay as a good top to bottom mountain. jay i think of as picking your way down selectively, especially from the summit. from_the_NEK shows this with the great variety of trail combos and then a flat run out at the bottom to end it, meh.

red line at magic top to bottom is one helluva run. my top to bottom most wanted run currently is mount washington, the king of top to bottom skiing in new england. 4k baby, yea! gotta work up to that one, and even then it could be more than one season before getting that just right day to give it a go.

 

[shwilly]

Sugarloaf: Narrow Gauge the entire way

also,
Binder Extension when it's open, or more likely Cinder Hoe (cinder hoe this cinder's gotta roll) to Buckskin to Binder to the roof of the pump house by Bullwinkle's to....you're stuck. I guess you could do a bit of Scoot and cut over to Haywire/Chaser, making it a freestyle run after the pump house. I often jump off the house, unstrap, and walk back up and over to Tote Road, where I can take the Lombard X-Cut back to the Spillway chairs....so that isn't top to bottom. I just don't care that much about doing the runout for the last 1000' of vert and ending up at the Superquad....but I have to jump off the house!

Stowe sounds like the champion of top-to-bottom runs. I think going from the Chin all the way to the bottom will be one of my goals this coming season.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

While Redline certainly deserves mention (particularly at the end of the day, when you can take in all of it, including the permanently closed portion between Carpet and Witch). one of my favorite (and recently often skied) Top-to bottom runs is Wizard.

It's one trail top to bottom.

It has killer views.

It has some great steep drops.

It has some great cruising.

Can you as for more?

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Stowe does not get the play it deserves in AZ land. Here Sugarbush is king for most.

I'm a well known SB fanati, but this man speaks of the truth. Stowe is also the bizzomb.

 

[Newpylong]

I can't comment on backcountry or any hiking at Stowe, but as for marked trails, I simply don't think it compares to the size, variety, and offerings of Sugarbush. And you have the price and the Tonies to deal with.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

IMHO getting the entire 2600+ vert at the Bush in one clean run is not as seamless as most people think. I would never do the bottom half via Lower FIS unless you a fan of long flat runouts...it does build up the shoulders with all the poling...:lol: Most of the other ways down involve getting thru the flats and people around Glen House. Exterminator to Northstar does a nice job if that's what your into.

Stowe's front section has legendary terrain but is short compared to the Bush. I skied Stowe alot in college but it has become very commercialized and the Mountain Rd and getting thru the village can be a nightmare trafficwise although the Moscow shortcut can eliminate almost all of the traffic. The new developement at Spruce will just make it worse.

Once Glen Ellen became part of the Bush that's what moved it ahead of Stowe in alot of peoples's thinking.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

IMHO getting the entire 2600+ vert at the Bush in one clean run is not as seamless as most people think. I would never do the bottom half via Lower FIS unless you a fan of long flat runouts...it does build up the shoulders with all the poling...:lol: Most of the other ways down involve getting thru the flats and people around Glen House. Exterminator to Northstar does a nice job if that's what your into.

Stowe's front section has legendary terrain but is short compared to the Bush. I skied Stowe alot in college but it has become very commercialized and the Mountain Rd and getting thru the village can be a nightmare trafficwise although the Moscow shortcut can eliminate almost all of the traffic. The new developement at Spruce will just make it worse.

Once Glen Ellen became part of the Bush that's what moved it ahead of Stowe in alot of peoples's thinking.

Not to turn this into a SB vs. Stowe thing, but in regards to top to bottom runs, I don't think SB can compare. Almost by definition, everything at Stowe is top to bottom, and there's a lot of good stuff there. SB is much more delineated by distinct pods, though you can of course go top to bottom by stringing together a few trail (easier at North vs. South).

That said, as Nwpylong mentioned, it's hard to argue that SB doesn't have a better overall variety of in-trail/on-map terrain. Stowe has been dramaticaly genericized over the years, though a few gems like Goat and Chin Clip remain. As for off-map/off-piste, they are both fantastic. When you consider overything that's reachable from the Stowe lift system from Spruce to Bruce and beyond, I'd definitely give Stowe the edge. That's a good choice to have though - can't go wrong with either.

If all those things together cancel each other out, I could certainly see how the pricing and vibe issues could tip someone's opinion towards SB.

 

[riverc0il]

IMHO getting the entire 2600+ vert at the Bush in one clean run is not as seamless as most people think. I would never do the bottom half via Lower FIS unless you a fan of long flat runouts...it does build up the shoulders with all the poling...:lol: Most of the other ways down involve getting thru the flats and people around Glen House. Exterminator to Northstar does a nice job if that's what your into.

Stowe's front section has legendary terrain but is short compared to the Bush. I skied Stowe alot in college but it has become very commercialized and the Mountain Rd and getting thru the village can be a nightmare trafficwise although the Moscow shortcut can eliminate almost all of the traffic. The new developement at Spruce will just make it worse.

two really good points here. for its size vertical, bush is one of the worst top to bottom mountains around, imo. a lot of vermont mountains have the major problem of run outs and pods, pico and sugarbush most especially suffer this. the bottom sections of both bush north and south are yawn fests and not a great finale to a top to bottom run.

indeed, stowe is very commercialized and expensive and traffic in the village isn't hot. but that really has nothing to do with stowe's terrain. certainly though, from an overall perspective, i can understand why many folks would prefer bush to stowe. but strictly from a terrain perspective, especially top to bottom runs (bringing it back to the topic at hand ), stowe has the edge.

 

[awf170]

Wildcat has the best and most consistly steep top-to-bottom runs in the east... (sorry, I had to add that) Hey Breeze, I think I deserve a free season pass for all this marketing.

Also, about Stowe. I really have no interest in there inbounds terrian besides for a few trails, but if I go to college in Burlington I will still most likely get a pass there because of the access to all of the stuff in the notch, unless JD wants a new hiking buddy...

 

[Greg]

two really good points here. for its size vertical, bush is one of the worst top to bottom mountains around, imo. a lot of vermont mountains have the major problem of run outs and pods, pico and sugarbush most especially suffer this. the bottom sections of both bush north and south are yawn fests and not a great finale to a top to bottom run.

One of the worst top to bottom mountains around? Not even close. Not all that familiar with North, but I do recall the lower section (GMX territory) being kinda flat, although the Cliffs is good. Castlerock has to have a top to bottom vert of at least 1,700 (just a guess). Moonshine, Twist and Stein's are all accessible off of Bravo. Decent verts on those (gotta be close to 1,500+ there). The Mall is also off Bravo and while the Mall does flatten out at the bottom, it's still THE MALL . Even North Linx to Sleeper is fun. Sugarbush has much more conisistent vertical than the Mighty Killington by far. Anytime you consider a mountain in the 2,500+ total vert range, you're likely going to find trail pods that are much shorter than that. Even Sugarloaf has a looooooong runout; so much so that you can see it from the upper elevations (weird, but cool perspective). Never been to either yet, but Whiteface and Stowe both look like they have pretty respectable top-to-bottom runs though. Same with Wildcat.

 

[ga2ski]

Sunday River-Start at the top of the Barker Quad.

Head down Lazy River, which coincides with Risky Business for a bit, then coincides with American express for a bit, then to Exit Right to Escapade which brings us to the bottom of the North Peak Quad to start more adventures. This "trail" starts curving thru the woods over hill and dale but is fairly consistent and gets you across the mountains over towards Oz where there is some fun to be had!

That is a great run. I prefer to take down Risky toTourist trap and back to Barker.

Other favorites at the river:

On a powder days only and in rivah jargon: Jungle Boogie to Jim's to Locke's down punch to Grand Junction onto the Bow and onto the wire.

Assuming the bumps are decent (was not the case this past year): Agony to Rocking Chair. or Upper Downdraft to 3D

Chinese Downhill: Start at the top of Jordan. Tuck across Kansas to LightsOut to Downdraft to Amex to Tourist Trap to Road runner. First one there wins.

 

[riverc0il]

Also, about Stowe. I really have no interest in there inbounds terrian besides for a few trails, but if I go to college in Burlington I will still most likely get a pass there because of the access to all of the stuff in the notch, unless JD wants a new hiking buddy...

austin, have you skied stowe? it isn't anything too shabby by a long shot. i wouldn't just ski stowe for the OB if i went there and paid for a ticket.

 

[riverc0il]

One of the worst top to bottom mountains around?

perhaps i am misinterpreting the words "top to bottom," but i was thinking from the top of the ski area back to the base lodge. i also would put sugarloaf as a suspect top to bottom mountain as well. that is saying nothing bad about those mountains!!! in a matter of fact, despite enjoying great top to bottom ski areas, i find most of my favorite terrain is not top to bottom (my favorite examples are zoomer @ cannon and jet @ jay). i just don't look at bush as a top to bottom mountain. you ride heaven's gate, lynx, rock, summit quad, etc. and ski those areas. great top to bottom mountains are places like mrg, wildcat, stowe, cannon, etc. that you can cycle the summit and go top to bottom on the lift and ski back down great terrain with sustained pitches and no run outs. it is my opinion that a flat run out is a serious minus on any top to bottom run. jay peak's run out for example KILLS me, despite it having some ballsy tree shots on the way down from any side of the peak. so that is just my perspective, flat run outs suck, i hate them, i despise them, and that is the basis of my opinion.