Gss

[Paul]

cant, dee picked up an extra shift friday night so i gots the kiddies by myself.

Bring 'em, use a 3rd wheel and a backpack carrier.

 

[Grassi21]

T
Think of AZ as less of Greg's personal sandbox that he let's people play in, and more of a business. Its a business at least partially sustained by advertising. How many businesses allow employees and customers to hang-around on their sales floor in their underwear telling dirty jokes, drinking, smoking, whatever? The reason for the moderation to a PG-13 level is at least in part to make the site appealing not only to folks of all ages (I've already told my 9-year-old that I will not allow her to join, just yet) but also to these same ski area professionals who take the time to participate in the AZ challenge (and other things as well, how many of you have chatted with Win Smith here?)
Imagine you need a new car, and walk into Campgottagopee's dealership. The salesmen are crude and occasionally offensive to many. There's a free-for-all atmosphere, and a lack of professional courtesy. Are you going to buy a car there, or maybe shop around some more?
Now, the noshitchat is like the employee lounge, it keeps the crudity off of the sales floor, and puts it in the back room where it belongs. Funny thing about internet forums, especially regional ones, is that people with similar interests meet and get to know one-another. In many cases real friendships are formed. A result of this is that certain "boundaries" can be expanded a bit. A little stone-busting here and there... And some of us just want to be able to socialize without the filter once in awhile. That's really the point of Andy's site (despite the catalyst of its creation, I'm sure the kernel was there for awhile) It is really not meant to be counter to AZ, but complimentary. It's that "back room" where AZers (and others) can go to vent, blow-off steam, yell, rant, rave, talk politics, curse, get annoyed by the real OSME and call 2knees an asshole. It keeps the seedier element out of AZ allowing it to still be the main resource for NE outdoor sports information and discussion.

Well put Paul.

 

[andyzee]

Well put Paul.

Paul is a freaking philosopher! and 100% dead on.

 

[2knees]

Bring 'em, use a 3rd wheel and a backpack carrier.

actually, i have one of these.

might limit the drops and stunts i hit though.

or maybe not. :evil:

 

[Grassi21]

Paul is a freaking philosopher! and 100% dead on.

yeah, its not the first time i have stepped back and had the same thought as you did about paul. :beer:

 

[ctenidae]

I dicussed GSS. And he disgusts me.

/not really, but it's more clever this way

 

[campgottagopee]

You got to be kidding me----I just read this entire thread and now feel like I got married all over again.

 

[mondeo]

I think everyone needs to step back and get a little perspective.
...

I agree with that stuff, but I've also come to the conclusion that part of it has to do with how people view the internet/message boards. Some see it as "just the internet, so who cares?," others view AZ as a community that just happens to communicate through text online. And some crossover. Most of the people that have gotten ticked off with the "overmoderation" have made comments along the lines of, "who cares what gets said on the internet?" Most of the mods and those that have supported the decisions they've made are probably more likely to go with the community POV, and treating people like you'd treat them face to face. A lot of what's gone down is the result of the former group not treating the later group as if they were talking face to face. The who cares? don't see what the issue is (after all it's just the internet,) the online communityers take offense (because if someone said that stuff to your face, you would.) A clash of two cultures, almost. Each viewpoint is fine on their own, but the interaction causes friction.

Greg has grown this site as a place for an online community. That's what he likes, and there's a place for this type of site amongst the different online skiing/outdoors message boards, so it works from the business case point of view. As part of that, the mods come in to keep the community feel steered in that direction, and moderation comes into play when the people who don't take anything said here seriously act that way in a way offensive to treat it seriously. There's plenty of good-hearted joking around here, mud slinging between friends, etc., but what gets attention is when people act in ways they never would face to face.

Which is why I'm on the side of Andy's site probably being a good thing. Anyone that wants to treat the internet as an escape from society's normal rules can do that over there. People that like the community aspect stay here. A lot of people crossover.

I've been staying out of all these threads because I'm trying to let it go and resume some sense of normality, but I figure one post can't hurt, and maybe add a second perspective on the why of what happened, with no one really to blame.

 

[Paul]

actually, i have one of these.

might limit the drops and stunts i hit though.

or maybe not. :evil:

I really don't see how, most of the jumps are only about 12' or so...

yeah, its not the first time i have stepped back and had the same thought as you did about paul. :beer:

Paul is a freaking philosopher! and 100% dead on.

Well put Paul.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I was just hoping it was coherent enough so that it was understandable. Wrote it while on a con-call and replying to email so my train of thought was missing a few switches in the track. I just want people to see the bigger picture. Arguments tend to cause people to focus on specifics in order to try to prove their point, or to "win" said argument. This really shouldn't be an argument per se, but a discussion. Once everyone cools off and let's go of the specifics, I'm sure we can have puppies, rainbows and unicorns for all again.:argue::beer:

 

[Paul]

I agree with that stuff, but I've also come to the conclusion that part of it has to do with how people view the internet/message boards. Some see it as "just the internet, so who cares?," others view AZ as a community that just happens to communicate through text online. And some crossover. Most of the people that have gotten ticked off with the "overmoderation" have made comments along the lines of, "who cares what gets said on the internet?" Most of the mods and those that have supported the decisions they've made are probably more likely to go with the community POV, and treating people like you'd treat them face to face. A lot of what's gone down is the result of the former group not treating the later group as if they were talking face to face. The who cares? don't see what the issue is (after all it's just the internet,) the online communityers take offense (because if someone said that stuff to your face, you would.) A clash of two cultures, almost. Each viewpoint is fine on their own, but the interaction causes friction.

Greg has grown this site as a place for an online community. That's what he likes, and there's a place for this type of site amongst the different online skiing/outdoors message boards, so it works from the business case point of view. As part of that, the mods come in to keep the community feel steered in that direction, and moderation comes into play when the people who don't take anything said here seriously act that way in a way offensive to treat it seriously. There's plenty of good-hearted joking around here, mud slinging between friends, etc., but what gets attention is when people act in ways they never would face to face.

Which is why I'm on the side of Andy's site probably being a good thing. Anyone that wants to treat the internet as an escape from society's normal rules can do that over there. People that like the community aspect stay here. A lot of people crossover.

I've been staying out of all these threads because I'm trying to let it go and resume some sense of normality, but I figure one post can't hurt, and maybe add a second perspective on the why of what happened, with no one really to blame.

Excellent points. And a bit more coherent than mine, but I've had a tough week. :grin:

 

[Beetlenut]

I know I said I was done, but discovering the whole iwon't/OSME new beginning/therapy thing was BS really sucked. Yep, it's all a sham. Every one of us fell for it and supported Jerry. Many of us even chastised GSS for not being supportive enough. It's not the first time members came to AZ looking for support during times of real personal tragedy. Remember when one of our own lost his wife? Many of us were there to support him. Warp Daddy is going through a pretty intense recovery period after open heart surgery this summer and AZers are there to encourage him and keep his spirits up. There was also another personal incident when a member posted here looking for support during a difficult time which has an ironic tie-in to this whole situation. I won't go into that, but most of you know what I'm talking about. Whether or not you think personal stuff should be kept out of the forums, it does happen. But good ole Jerry found it funny to make a mockery of the good will of most AZers. That was one of the ultimate displays of douchebaggery that I can ever recall here.

OSME reaction was a bit overblown, but you guys are mixing up religion and heritage. You don't have to be a practicing jew to be effected that stuff.

Exactly, nazis didn't/don't care if you're athiest or religious only if there was/is "Jewish blood".

Read the picture caption that posted with the pic. There was no ill intended in the pic. What I should have done was post the link. It has nothing to do with that. I am PO'ed at the posing. That is just plain sick, I thought I was apologizing to someone that was Jewsih and truly offended.

Wow, easy to start a rumor around here!

Wa-Loaf, ERJ-145CA, and Puck it, Greg was referring to Jerry's rouse of turning over a new leaf and becoming Iwon't and becoming all PC, not the Jewish Nazi Wallmart picture!

 

[severine]

Speaking of online personas, I'm disappointed in all the cynicism lately. There's one person in particular who I considered a friend offline, and his new persona is not anything in line with who I thought he was. He always seemed to me like a quiet gentle person, but I've seen a bit of a dark side over there. Looks like your forum brings the worst out in people too, Andy. Another milestone.

AZ has become a community that helps facilitate face-to-face interactions with members skiing and riding together. Precisely why I try to keep it real online and post in a way that represent who I am in real life and encourage others to do so. Seems like some prefer to create different online personalities just to act like douchebags, Perhaps they didn't act out enough as a kid or something.

I hear ya. Going on to mondeo's post...

I know I said I was done, but discovering the whole iwon't/OSME new beginning/therapy thing was BS really sucked. Yep, it's all a sham. Every one of us fell for it and supported Jerry. Many of us even chastised GSS for not being supportive enough. It's not the first time members came to AZ looking for support during times of real personal tragedy. Remember when one of our own lost his wife? Many of us were there to support him. Warp Daddy is going through a pretty intense recovery period after open heart surgery this summer and AZers are there to encourage him and keep his spirits up. There was also another personal incident when a member posted here looking for support during a difficult time which has an ironic tie-in to this whole situation. I won't go into that, but most of you know what I'm talking about. Whether or not you think personal stuff should be kept out of the forums, it does happen. But good ole Jerry found it funny to make a mockery of the good will of most AZers. That was one of the ultimate displays of douchebaggery that I can ever recall here.

I agree with that stuff, but I've also come to the conclusion that part of it has to do with how people view the internet/message boards. Some see it as "just the internet, so who cares?," others view AZ as a community that just happens to communicate through text online. And some crossover. Most of the people that have gotten ticked off with the "overmoderation" have made comments along the lines of, "who cares what gets said on the internet?" Most of the mods and those that have supported the decisions they've made are probably more likely to go with the community POV, and treating people like you'd treat them face to face. A lot of what's gone down is the result of the former group not treating the later group as if they were talking face to face. The who cares? don't see what the issue is (after all it's just the internet,) the online communityers take offense (because if someone said that stuff to your face, you would.) A clash of two cultures, almost. Each viewpoint is fine on their own, but the interaction causes friction.

Greg has grown this site as a place for an online community. That's what he likes, and there's a place for this type of site amongst the different online skiing/outdoors message boards, so it works from the business case point of view. As part of that, the mods come in to keep the community feel steered in that direction, and moderation comes into play when the people who don't take anything said here seriously act that way in a way offensive to treat it seriously. There's plenty of good-hearted joking around here, mud slinging between friends, etc., but what gets attention is when people act in ways they never would face to face.

I think that's the heart of the problem. There are people, myself included, who considered some of these people friends. Shocking, I know! And on an internet forum no less! But this isn't just an online place to play with your imaginary friends. I know quite a few AZers in person, skied with them (more often than with my own spouse!), gone out drinking with them... these are real people and people I thought had my back. It's disheartening to discover that they really feel otherwise and even worse to read it online posted in a forum that cropped up almost as a big F-U to the community where I met them. Makes you wonder which is the real persona?

Speaking of online personas, I'm disappointed in all the cynicism lately. There's one person in particular who I considered a friend offline, and his new persona is not anything in line with who I thought he was. He always seemed to me like a quiet gentle person, but I've seen a bit of a dark side over there. Looks like your forum brings the worst out in people too, Andy. Another milestone.

AZ has become a community that helps facilitate face-to-face interactions with members skiing and riding together. Precisely why I try to keep it real online and post in a way that represent who I am in real life and encourage others to do so. Seems like some prefer to create different online personalities just to act like douchebags, Perhaps they didn't act out enough as a kid or something.

I appreciate that Andy and a few others handled the situationS that arose in a place where I wasn't even involved to defend myself... But yup... I am who I am. Never pretended to be something else. Shared more than I should have I suppose... but I'm an open book. And now I feel like that was a huge mistake. Kudos to you all... I hope you never need somebody's support. Karma sucks.

 

[MR. evil]

I appreciate that Andy and a few others handled the situationS that arose in a place where I wasn't even involved to defend myself... But yup... I am who I am. Never pretended to be something else. Shared more than I should have I suppose... but I'm an open book. And now I feel like that was a huge mistake. Kudos to you all... I hope you never need somebody's support. Karma sucks.

WOW!

I don't even know how to respond to this.

 

[severine]

WOW!

I don't even know how to respond to this.

And so you feel I am misrepresenting myself? How so? I'd like to see this.

I have openly admitted (in no particular order and for no particular reason):

*weight - with pictures (hell...let's put that first since it was addressed by the title-holder himself in an oh-so-lovable way for absolutely no reason at all)
*what I do all day
*what I want to do
*what I think
*how I'm not a great skier
*the goddamn details of that f'ing mess last year that keeps biting me in the butt over and over and over and over again.... give it an f'ing rest!

etc, etc, etc.... So please enlighten me... what have I done to offend thee now?

 

[tjf67]

And so you feel I am misrepresenting myself? How so? I'd like to see this.

I have openly admitted (in no particular order and for no particular reason):

*weight - with pictures (hell...let's put that first since it was addressed by the title-holder himself in an oh-so-lovable way for absolutely no reason at all)
*what I do all day
*what I want to do
*what I think
*how I'm not a great skier
*the goddamn details of that f'ing mess last year that keeps biting me in the butt over and over and over and over again.... give it an f'ing rest!

etc, etc, etc.... So please enlighten me... what have I done to offend thee now?

What would you do if you found out your child was revealing all that personal info over the internet? SURPRISE this is the internet. My personality may be on the internet but nothing personal.

 

[Greg]

My personality may be on the internet....

Might not want to admit that...

 

[MR. evil]

*the goddamn details of that f'ing mess last year that keeps biting me in the butt over and over and over and over again.... give it an f'ing rest!

Yet YOU keep bringing up. We all want to forget about that whole mess, but YOU keep throwing it out there.

etc, etc, etc.... So please enlighten me... what have I done to offend thee now?

Its not always about you Carrie.

 

[legalskier]

I agree with that stuff, but I've also come to the conclusion that part of it has to do with how people view the internet/message boards. Some see it as "just the internet, so who cares?," others view AZ as a community that just happens to communicate through text online. And some crossover. Most of the people that have gotten ticked off with the "overmoderation" have made comments along the lines of, "who cares what gets said on the internet?" Most of the mods and those that have supported the decisions they've made are probably more likely to go with the community POV, and treating people like you'd treat them face to face. A lot of what's gone down is the result of the former group not treating the later group as if they were talking face to face. The who cares? don't see what the issue is (after all it's just the internet,) the online communityers take offense (because if someone said that stuff to your face, you would.) A clash of two cultures, almost. Each viewpoint is fine on their own, but the interaction causes friction.

Greg has grown this site as a place for an online community. That's what he likes, and there's a place for this type of site amongst the different online skiing/outdoors message boards, so it works from the business case point of view. As part of that, the mods come in to keep the community feel steered in that direction, and moderation comes into play when the people who don't take anything said here seriously act that way in a way offensive to treat it seriously. There's plenty of good-hearted joking around here, mud slinging between friends, etc., but what gets attention is when people act in ways they never would face to face.

Which is why I'm on the side of Andy's site probably being a good thing. Anyone that wants to treat the internet as an escape from society's normal rules can do that over there. People that like the community aspect stay here. A lot of people crossover.

I've been staying out of all these threads because I'm trying to let it go and resume some sense of normality, but I figure one post can't hurt, and maybe add a second perspective on the why of what happened, with no one really to blame.

Online disinhibition effect:
“The core concept of the online disinhibition effect refers to a loosening (or complete abandonment) of social restrictions and inhibitions that would otherwise be present in normal face-to-face interaction during interactions with others on the Internet. *** With respect to bad behavior, users on the Internet can frequently do or say as they wish without fear of any kind of meaningful reprisal – in most Internet forums, the worst kind of punishment one can receive for bad behavior is usually being banned from a particular site. In practice, however, this serves little use; the person involved can usually circumvent the ban by simply registering another username and continuing the same behavior as before. Suler[1] calls this toxic disinhibition. *** Popular online comic Penny Arcade describes "John Gabriel's Greater Internet F--kwad Theory," which posits that an otherwise well-adjusted person, given anonymity and a captive audience, can turn into a "total f--kwad," exhibiting antisocial, sociopathic, and even psychopathic behaviors online.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect

 

[severine]

Yet YOU keep bringing up. We all want to forget about that whole mess, but YOU keep throwing it out there.

As do I. And if that's the case, then why publicly discuss it at the new forum? Why make that one of the new orders of business to get it off on a great foot?

:roll:

You and your wife were people I confided in and thought were supportive at the time. Clearly, I was wrong. About that and many other things....

 

[severine]

What would you do if you found out your child was revealing all that personal info over the internet? SURPRISE this is the internet. My personality may be on the internet but nothing personal.

So if one posts on the internet, one should invent a completely different persona and pretend to be what they're not?

Explains a lot lately....