How to ski moguls?

[Cheese]

The drill for working on short turns is practicing short turns themselves. Not in the bumps, but outside of the bumps. Ski straight down the fall line making about 1 turn per 3 seconds. Keep your weight centered, shoulders across the hill and hands in front of you with your thumbs touching. Arms should be bent at a 90* angle with your elbows slightly in front of your torso and hands about 1' in front of your chest. Separate your hands briefly to plant your pole like any other turn but make sure you bring your hands back together afterwards (tap your thumbs together as a reminder to bring them back each time).

Hips should be square across the hill but ankles and knees will turn during each transition. Essentially you're making a hockey stop then releasing it. When you release you're absorbing the force from the hockey stop with your knees and therefore unweighting the rear of both ski edges. Forward pressure should remain on the tips so that they remain planted in the snow even though you are unweighting the tails. The tips should not move too far horizontally but rather be the pivot point to which the tails shift left or right from.

Pole plant, hockey stop, tap your thumbs, release, transition, pole plant, hockey stop, tap your thumbs, release, transition... repeat. Once you've got this down increase the repetition to 1 turn per 2 seconds and then later 1 turn per second.

Another place to practice outside of the moguls is on the edge of the trail. Usually there is a noticeable ridge that drops off into the woods. Use the top of the ridge as the line and perform quick turns on either side of it. Your tips should remain at the top of the ridge while your tails slide to either side of it. The pole plant should be on the top of the ridge (uphill of your tips) and remember to tap your thumbs together after. Towards the end of the day the snow here will be deeper and often even bump up slightly so it's a great place to practice.

The only modification you should need to make when transitioning to the bumps is in the release. You will have to release even more as the force of the mogul will require even more absorption to keep the tips weighted while unweighting the tails so that they can pivot from side to side. If the tips remain the pivot point they will follow straight down the zipline of the moguls as your tails transition between the moguls to the left and right of the line.

Go get 'em!

 

[MadMadWorld]

The drill for working on short turns is practicing short turns themselves. Not in the bumps, but outside of the bumps. Ski straight down the fall line making about 1 turn per 3 seconds. Keep your weight centered, shoulders across the hill and hands in front of you with your thumbs touching. Arms should be bent at a 90* angle with your elbows slightly in front of your torso and hands about 1' in front of your chest. Separate your hands briefly to plant your pole like any other turn but make sure you bring your hands back together afterwards (tap your thumbs together as a reminder to bring them back each time).

Hips should be square across the hill but ankles and knees will turn during each transition. Essentially you're making a hockey stop then releasing it. When you release you're absorbing the force from the hockey stop with your knees and therefore unweighting the rear of both ski edges. Forward pressure should remain on the tips so that they remain planted in the snow even though you are unweighting the tails. The tips should not move too far horizontally but rather be the pivot point to which the tails shift left or right from.

Pole plant, hockey stop, tap your thumbs, release, transition, pole plant, hockey stop, tap your thumbs, release, transition... repeat. Once you've got this down increase the repetition to 1 turn per 2 seconds and then later 1 turn per second.

Another place to practice outside of the moguls is on the edge of the trail. Usually there is a noticeable ridge that drops off into the woods. Use the top of the ridge as the line and perform quick turns on either side of it. Your tips should remain at the top of the ridge while your tails slide to either side of it. The pole plant should be on the top of the ridge (uphill of your tips) and remember to tap your thumbs together after. Towards the end of the day the snow here will be deeper and often even bump up slightly so it's a great place to practice.

The only modification you should need to make when transitioning to the bumps is in the release. You will have to release even more as the force of the mogul will require even more absorption to keep the tips weighted while unweighting the tails so that they can pivot from side to side. If the tips remain the pivot point they will follow straight down the zipline of the moguls as your tails transition between the moguls to the left and right of the line.

Go get 'em!

What do you mean by tapping your thumbs? You
ean bringing your hands in and tapping your thumbs together? Great post. I don't think there is anything I would add

 

[legalskier]

There are lots of ways to approach moguls tactically. The key for me is speed control. E.g., if I'm doing short radius turns in steep bumps I see each one as an individual turn that comes to (almost) a complete finish. I link each one with the next in a series of slow speed turns. Cheese's description really breaks it down nicely. There are many other ways of approaching them tactically depending on terrain and conditions- it can get creative. Stay forward, don't lean back.

Btw, there are lots of youtube videos out there you can watch. Good luck & enjoy.

 

[Cheese]

What do you mean by tapping your thumbs? You
ean bringing your hands in and tapping your thumbs together? Great post. I don't think there is anything I would add

Yes, it's very important to bring your hands back home (1' away from your chest) and tapping your thumbs together is an easy way to remember. This prevents letting a hand drag behind, dropping a shoulder, rotating the upper body and often leaning back.

I should also add that learning season is approaching. Warmer corn snow is both softer and slower which makes skiing moguls about as easy as it can be.

 

[Blanton]

OK, so what is the best drill for working on those short turns? Every time I see the bumps I feel like I should get in there...and then I do and I flounder after the first few "turns".

What do you feel specifically keeps you from skiing more of the bumps? Poor balance, speed control, unable to turn fast enough to stay in the line?

 

[hammer]

What do you feel specifically keeps you from skiing more of the bumps? Poor balance, speed control, unable to turn fast enough to stay in the line?

Yes...but it seems to start in my turn speed, feel like I just can't keep up.

 

[PomfretPlunge]

OK, so what is the best drill for working on those short turns? Every time I see the bumps I feel like I should get in there...and then I do and I flounder after the first few "turns".

Here are 2 good vids
http://freestyleski.com/wp/club/canadian-mogul-skiing-video/

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=WgcPxgWRkIs&desktop_uri=/watch?v=WgcPxgWRkIs


Here are some good drills

http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/category/skills/mogul/

http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/category/skills/turn/

http://mogulskiing.org/mogul-skiing-flat-drills-video/

 

[New Daddy]

Here are 2 good vids
http://freestyleski.com/wp/club/canadian-mogul-skiing-video/

One thing that I immediately noticed while watching the Canadian video is that their groomed-trail training involves mainly "late-stage" or "tail-end" speed controlling in short radius turns. What I mean by that is speed controlling seems to occur mainly after crossing the peak of arcs in that video.

If I'm not mistaken, that is strongly advised against in non-mogul setting. I've heard many ski instructors or even Bode Miller (on free Verizon Fios instructional video) preach "early-stage" or "top-end" speed controlling that aggressively initiates short radius turns before reaching the peak of arcs. In one Bode Miller video, they said "tail-end" speed controlling results in what looks like "repetitive hockey-stop"-like turns. That's exactly what I see happening in the Canadian mogul training video.

I'm not saying the Canadians are doing it wrong. They must be doing it right. So, I'm thinking maybe there is a big difference between groomed-trail short radius turn techniques and mogul techniques.

 

[PomfretPlunge]

Hmm, maybe looking at the flattened images in the videos makes it hard to read what's happening in the reality. The Canadians' flats turns are super-early, with much-much of the speed control coming in the top half of each turn, exactly as you describe. The snow starts shooting out from under their skis well before the fall line. Not sure why you're seeing that as tails/late...

 

[deadheadskier]

The drill for working on short turns is practicing short turns themselves. Not in the bumps, but outside of the bumps. Ski straight down the fall line making about 1 turn per 3 seconds. Keep your weight centered, shoulders across the hill and hands in front of you with your thumbs touching. Arms should be bent at a 90* angle with your elbows slightly in front of your torso and hands about 1' in front of your chest. Separate your hands briefly to plant your pole like any other turn but make sure you bring your hands back together afterwards (tap your thumbs together as a reminder to bring them back each time).

Hips should be square across the hill but ankles and knees will turn during each transition. Essentially you're making a hockey stop then releasing it. When you release you're absorbing the force from the hockey stop with your knees and therefore unweighting the rear of both ski edges. Forward pressure should remain on the tips so that they remain planted in the snow even though you are unweighting the tails. The tips should not move too far horizontally but rather be the pivot point to which the tails shift left or right from.

Pole plant, hockey stop, tap your thumbs, release, transition, pole plant, hockey stop, tap your thumbs, release, transition... repeat. Once you've got this down increase the repetition to 1 turn per 2 seconds and then later 1 turn per second.

Another place to practice outside of the moguls is on the edge of the trail. Usually there is a noticeable ridge that drops off into the woods. Use the top of the ridge as the line and perform quick turns on either side of it. Your tips should remain at the top of the ridge while your tails slide to either side of it. The pole plant should be on the top of the ridge (uphill of your tips) and remember to tap your thumbs together after. Towards the end of the day the snow here will be deeper and often even bump up slightly so it's a great place to practice.

The only modification you should need to make when transitioning to the bumps is in the release. You will have to release even more as the force of the mogul will require even more absorption to keep the tips weighted while unweighting the tails so that they can pivot from side to side. If the tips remain the pivot point they will follow straight down the zipline of the moguls as your tails transition between the moguls to the left and right of the line.

Go get 'em!

One thing that I immediately noticed while watching the Canadian video is that their groomed-trail training involves mainly "late-stage" or "tail-end" speed controlling in short radius turns. What I mean by that is speed controlling seems to occur mainly after crossing the peak of arcs in that video.

If I'm not mistaken, that is strongly advised against in non-mogul setting. I've heard many ski instructors or even Bode Miller (on free Verizon Fios instructional video) preach "early-stage" or "top-end" speed controlling that aggressively initiates short radius turns before reaching the peak of arcs. In one Bode Miller video, they said "tail-end" speed controlling results in what looks like "repetitive hockey-stop"-like turns. That's exactly what I see happening in the Canadian mogul training video.

I'm not saying the Canadians are doing it wrong. They must be doing it right. So, I'm thinking maybe there is a big difference between groomed-trail short radius turn techniques and mogul techniques.

Hmm, maybe looking at the flattened images in the videos makes it hard to read what's happening in the reality. The Canadians' flats turns are super-early, with much-much of the speed control coming in the top half of each turn, exactly as you describe. The snow starts shooting out from under their skis well before the fall line. Not sure why you're seeing that as tails/late...

I think you all should team up and co-author a book; "The Thinking Man's Moguls". :lol:

It's bizarre to read, having not had a formal lesson since I was in middle school. As I read it, I think to myself there's no way I'd be able to remember the suggestions you all are making and take them to the hill on my next outing. At the same time, I'm sure if you all were skiing with me and made the same suggestions live on the slopes, I or anyone would benefit greatly from the instruction.

 

[Nick]

Kinda like golf.

 

[PomfretPlunge]

x2

 

[jack97]

So, I'm thinking maybe there is a big difference between groomed-trail short radius turn techniques and mogul techniques.

There is a lot of differences in a mogul turn compared to (present day) turns in alpine racing. I would even add in the way turns are presently taught by ski instuctors. The biggest, is that half of the turn is use to make a quick short turn.

Here's a vid of Finnish mogul skier, Janne Lahtela

 

[jack97]

more vis

Berger rocking it old school.... they don't teach this sh!t anymore!

 

[jack97]

last vid

If I'm not mistaken, that is strongly advised against in non-mogul setting. I've heard many ski instructors or even Bode Miller (on free Verizon Fios instructional video) preach "early-stage" or "top-end" speed controlling that aggressively initiates short radius turns before reaching the peak of arcs. In one Bode Miller video, they said "tail-end" speed controlling results in what looks like "repetitive hockey-stop"-like turns. That's exactly what I see happening in the Canadian mogul training video.

Bode Miller is an awesome alpine racing and very technically sound. However, I would not think of him as the definitive go to guy when it comes to mogul skiing. Start of 6:51, "Trouble Situations".....wtf, I seek out stuff like this.

 

[Blanton]

Here are 2 good vids
http://freestyleski.com/wp/club/canadian-mogul-skiing-video/

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=WgcPxgWRkIs&desktop_uri=/watch?v=WgcPxgWRkIs


Here are some good drills

http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/category/skills/mogul/

http://www.canfreestyle.com/wiki/category/skills/turn/

http://mogulskiing.org/mogul-skiing-flat-drills-video/

Brennan posted some good videos, however I wouldn't dig too deep into the drills on the Canadian site. The reason I say this is that most people will do them incorrectly and just reinforce bad habits or waste time on the hill. Without a "coach" on hand it is tough to get much of anything out of the more complex ones That being said I would look at the basic body position tutorial and the section pertaining to flats about 3 minutes in on the first one. Without a strong body position you are going to struggle with progressing your turns.

One of the biggest things you can do to work on improving in and out of the bumps is to ditch your poles and loosen up your boots. You will find that doing both of these things makes it nearly impossible to ski the way that you are comfortable/ accustomed to. Getting rid of these crutches will quickly require you to get in the right position and work on nice calm motions. 10/10 you will find that it involves pulling your feet way behind you, bending your knees/ ankles, and holding your upper body in an athletic/ non tense fashion. Start with a comfortable medium/ short radius turn and progressively tighten it up as you feel you are improving. Working this in the bumps will reinforce patient feet and excellent ski snow contact.

I like doing this because it's something you can do on your own and really improve upon in a matter of a couple runs. It's also nice because you don't have to ask your buddy if it looks better or if you did it right.

 

[PomfretPlunge]

Yes indeedy!

 

[deadheadskier]

One thing I don't believe has been mentioned is that a great way to improve mogul skiing is to trail run in the summer time. Find trails with moderate pitch and run down them. Whenever there's a decent drop of a couple of feet, jump down the drop and land balanced on both feet with your feet angled 45 degrees across the fall line of the hill. This really helps feel the components of balance, absorption and knee/hip angulation that you experience while on snow. Try stringing several of these jump "turns" together.

You're unlikely to find natural terrain with the same features, but here's a good video of Johnny Mosely "skiing" during the summer months.

 

[PomfretPlunge]

One thing I don't believe has been mentioned is that a great way to improve mogul skiing is to trail run in the summer time. Find trails with moderate pitch and run down them. Whenever there's a decent drop of a couple of feet, jump down the drop and land balanced on both feet with your feet angled 45 degrees across the fall line of the hill. This really helps feel the components of balance, absorption and knee/hip angulation that you experience while on snow. Try stringing several of these jump "turns" together.

I wrote 2knees a horribly long-winded e-mail about trail running for mogul practice a coupla years ago and he hasn't spoken to me since!

That was after our dayz up at Sugarbush. We should get the gang together again this April at SB or K... or Sundown? Howz bumpz there these dayz?

 

[deadheadskier]

never skied Sundown. :lol:

I will definitely be skiing both Sugarbush and Killington this spring.