How would you handle this?

[cbcbd]

Truth is, people in this country, especially in the Northeast, are very uptight about their personal space - accidentally brush their arm and you're already saying "I'm sorry".

Although unrelated, I still can't help to think about once incident in my early skiing days when I yardsaled leaving some things behind on some icy/rocky terrain. This guy retrieves my googles, skis down to me, hands them to me and says "I ruined my skis to get your googles"

WTF!!?? I prefer to get hit by a wayward snowboarder and have him say sorry in a low voice before having to deal with that asshole.

 

[dmc]

With 79 posts and counting, I'd say this is a hot button issue.

Debating the skiers resp. code is something i love to do... Because it exposes gapers that use the code as some sort of shield to ski tough terrain and make it someone elses fault when they stumble into an expert line and get hit...

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

Debating the skiers resp. code is something i love to do... Because it exposes gapers that use the code as some sort of shield to ski tough terrain and make it someone elses fault when they stumble into an expert line and get hit...

I like to scream "My Bad!!!!" as I hop over their skis when they cut into my line. Continuing to zipper past them before they can say two words gives me a warm-fuzzy feeling.

If I bump them (which happens extremely rarely), I do stop and see if they're o.k. It's one thing to scare the beejesus out of someone (as I'm sure that big ol' board of yours does). It's another thing to make contact. In that instance, someone could be hurt (including me) and I make sure everything's on the up and up before moving on.

And I think that's where a gap arises between those of us in the "no-harm, no-foul" tribe and the "if you get near me, you must bow down and beg for forgiveness" group.

Just because somebody scares you or you believe that someone is too close isn't a punishable offense. If you get bumped so gently that you barely realize it happened, it's stupid to get bent out of shape. Apologies are appropriate where contact is made and it's significant.

Brush my jacket? Ski/ride on, no harm. Knock me out of my ski boots? Well, a "Sorry" would be greatly appreciated while you dial the ski patrol on your cell phone. Save the drama for situations that call for it.

 

[FridayHiker]

I guess I'm just good at seeing the difference between hitting a pedstrian with a SUV versus clipping a ski in a lift line...

Also whoever compared hitting some random pedestrian on the sidewalk with a vehicle and bumping into someone just blew this whole thing way out of properation.

No, I didn't blow it out of proportion. I surely didn't say the situations were identical; I was just trying to point out that "no harm / no foul" is pretty subjective and doesn't always apply, so it's actually pretty useless, and I still contend it's a pretty lousy rule to teach your kids to live by. A smart kid can rationalize a heckuva lot under that umbrella.

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

I was just trying to point out that "no harm / no foul" is pretty subjective and doesn't always apply, so it's actually pretty useless.

As Justice Stewart said in the famous case about obscenity "I know it when I see it."

 

[dmc]

No, I didn't blow it out of proportion. I surely didn't say the situations were identical; I was just trying to point out that "no harm / no foul" is pretty subjective and doesn't always apply, so it's actually pretty useless, and I still contend it's a pretty lousy rule to teach your kids to live by. A smart kid can rationalize a heckuva lot under that umbrella.

Of course it''s subjective!!!! Killing someone is a whole lot different then clipping someones skis in a liftline.. I think thats a pretty easy thing to teach a kid.. In fact most kids wouldn't care less if it wasn't for their blowhard parents getting all protective...

So it doesn't always apply... I think we're all down with that.. But IT DOES apply to this context..

 

[Brettski]

Debating the skiers resp. code is something i love to do... Because it exposes gapers that use the code as some sort of shield to ski tough terrain and make it someone elses fault when they stumble into an expert line and get hit...

The code is actually set up like nj auto insurance...

no fault

if you hit'em, then you broke one, and if they enter the trail without looking and get hit, they broke one...

the only area where you are 100% blameless as in, you were parked or not moving

Kinda like standing in a lift line

 

[Brettski]

And speaking of lift lines...ever get skewered by a ski pole?

Dissing my Helly is not cool

 

[dmc]

The code is actually set up like nj auto insurance...

no fault

if you hit'em, then you broke one, and if they enter the trail without looking and get hit, they broke one...

the only area where you are 100% blameless as in, you were parked or not moving

Kinda like standing in a lift line

No way - it's not legally binding... It contradicts itself...

 

[JimG.]

The skier's responsibility code assumes an important quality...

that someone is responsible. Many people are not.

So be careful out there...look around a little, listen. Read the trail map, ski on terrain suited to your ability.

And be ready to stop on a dime. Because the unguided missles and rude liftline partners are just part of the deal, just like everyday life.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Like I mentioned in a previous post, the code got changed a couple of years ago. If ya haven't read it in a few years, ya might want to check it out.

 

[dmc]

http://www.nsc.org/mem/youth/ski/nsaa4.htm

1. Always stay in control.
2. People ahead of you have the right of way.
3. Stop in a safe place for you and others.
4. Whenever starting downhill or merging, look uphill and yield.
5. Use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
6. Observe signs and warnings, and keep off closed trails.
7. Know how to use the lifts safely

better....

 

[kickstand]

What a great thread. Since I haven't followed it all day, I was able to waste the last 25 minutes at work catching up.....

a couple of comments, each of them totally worth the $0.02....

1. It seemed like there was an epidemic last couple of seasons of people refusing to look uphill before starting down the hill themselves. 2 seasons ago, I had a guy in front of me in the woods at Attitash - and we were the only two in there - start down when I got to about 30 feet behind him. Not knowing exactly where he was going, I put on the brakes and voiced my displeasure with him. I think I mumbled something about looking uphill first, but he just kept going. That's just the most memorable example. I saw it at least a half dozen times each day out.

2. I was wiped out from behind last year by an out of control person sliding on the snow (so not to come off as profiling, I will not mention this person's age, sex, color, sliding instrument of choice, sexual preference, nationality, anything....). While I pretty much blew a gasket, what bothered me the most was the indignant - and unoriginal - response to me asking what the *&^$% the person was thinking.

BTW, I think the response in the original post was fine. I can totally understand just making sure that your wife heard the apology and you all moved on. Life's good, enjoy the slopes.

carry on..............

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

http://www.nsc.org/mem/youth/ski/nsaa4.htm

1. Always stay in control.
2. People ahead of you have the right of way.
3. Stop in a safe place for you and others.
4. Whenever starting downhill or merging, look uphill and yield.
5. Use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
6. Observe signs and warnings, and keep off closed trails.
7. Know how to use the lifts safely

better....

Proposed Revision for #2 -

"People ahead of you have the right of way, unless they make an abrupt change of direction or slam on the breaks, in which case do your best to avoid them, but if you hit them, then they are to blame because nobody has the right to slam on the breaks while doing 65 mph in the left lane for no apparent reason."

I ski in control and at a good pace. I don't care how good a skier you are, there are going to be instances where someone makes some crazy move that you didn't anticipate and you won't be able to avoid it. This is particularly true when you are absolutely giving them space but they just make a bone-headed move.

How's this for rule #8?

"Look uphill before radically reducing speed or changing direction, you aren't alone on this very crowded run in the North East. If you don't like it, ski at Deer Valley."

 

[dmc]

I actually get a lot of skiers that start out in front of me while I'm in a line.. I think they think that since I'm on a board, I'm not going to catch up with them but I always do... and have to usually just go to the side of the trail and wait until i get the line clean again..

 

[Marc]

Proposed Revision for #2 -

"People ahead of you have the right of way, unless they make an abrupt change of direction or slam on the breaks, in which case do your best to avoid them, but if you hit them, then they are to blame because nobody has the right to slam on the breaks while doing 65 mph in the left lane for no apparent reason."

I ski in control and at a good pace. I don't care how good a skier you are, there are going to be instances where someone makes some crazy move that you didn't anticipate and you won't be able to avoid it. This is particularly true when you are absolutely giving them space but they just make a bone-headed move.

How's this for rule #8?

"Look uphill before radically reducing speed or changing direction, you aren't alone on this very crowded run in the North East. If you don't like it, ski at Deer Valley."

Good intention, poor analogy.

If you are following someone, on skis or in a car, the responsibility is on your shoulders to maintain a safe following distance. If they slam on the brakes, for a good reason or not, and you hit them, you are at fault for following to close, case closed.


Now merging and erratic motion is a completely different situation. If you are cut off by someone who is attempting to merge, then they are at fault for failing to yield.

Same thing on the slopes, except because there are no well defined lanes as on a highway, in my opinion more repsonsibility falls on the shoulders of the uphill skier, however, that does not mean a skier merging onto a trail without looking is not at fault. Starting from a standstill, or merging onto a distinctly separate trail, the downhill skier should yield to the uphill skier, IMHO.

 

[dmc]

Now merging and erratic motion is a completely different situation. If you are cut off by someone who is attempting to merge, then they are at fault for failing to yield.

Same thing on the slopes, except because there are no well defined lanes as on a highway, in my opinion more repsonsibility falls on the shoulders of the uphill skier, however, that does not mean a skier merging onto a trail without looking is not at fault. Starting from a standstill, or merging onto a distinctly separate trail, the downhill skier should yield to the uphill skier, IMHO.

Noobs on expert trails do not have the skills to judge someone hammering a falline..
If someone only gives a couple meters to some someone blasting a bumpline then when they enter - they'll get hit... And it's their fault.. You can't just blast into a line on an expert trail without giving someone enough room...

This is from the European code:
"Entering and restarting: Every skier entering a trail or starting after a halt has to assure himself uphill and downhill of the fact that he can do so without danger for himself and others."

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Good intention, poor analogy.

If you are following someone, on skis or in a car, the responsibility is on your shoulders to maintain a safe following distance. If they slam on the brakes, for a good reason or not, and you hit them, you are at fault for following to close, case closed.


Now merging and erratic motion is a completely different situation. If you are cut off by someone who is attempting to merge, then they are at fault for failing to yield.

Same thing on the slopes, except because there are no well defined lanes as on a highway, in my opinion more repsonsibility falls on the shoulders of the uphill skier, however, that does not mean a skier merging onto a trail without looking is not at fault. Starting from a standstill, or merging onto a distinctly separate trail, the downhill skier should yield to the uphill skier, IMHO.

Your explanations work well before the change from "downhill" skier to "ahead" skier. Pretty simple and easy to understand but the change was made because sometimes the downhill skier is at fault in addition to the two scenerios you mentioned.

For example, if you are skiing down the trail and you are getting ready to pass a slower skier and for whatever reason the skier turns uphill and you slam into that skier, it's their fault even tho at the time of the collision they were the downhill skier.

Personally, like most things I like the old way better.

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

Good intention, poor analogy.

If you are following someone, on skis or in a car, the responsibility is on your shoulders to maintain a safe following distance. If they slam on the brakes, for a good reason or not, and you hit them, you are at fault for following to close, case closed.

If some genius driving in rush-hour traffic decides to slam on his breaks for Sh*ts and Giggles, I'm not sure the 30 car pile-up that ensues isn't his fault regardless of who gets assigned the blame for insurance purposes. The same thing goes in skiing. You can't expect to slam on your breaks on a crowded run without a moment's notice and not cause all sorts of chaos.

I ALWAYS look up the hill when I'm stopping in the middle of a run or changing my line, because I ski quickly and someone following behind me isn't going to have time to react to my abrupt change of speed or direction unless I flash hand signals. Oh, maybe turn signals are the answer here. You could mount them on your helmet!

It's just common sense, be aware of your surroundings.

Oh, and I will personally tear those I-pod ear buds out through your nose if you are wearing them on a trail. You deserve to get biffed if you didn't hear me behind you.

 

[dmc]

Oh, and I will personally tear those I-pod ear buds out through your nose if you are wearing them on a trail. You deserve to get biffed if you didn't hear me behind you.

I'd like to see you try... :roll: I ride with music all the time...