How would you handle this?

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

I think that's nuts. Do you hear anyone around you?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

If some genius driving in rush-hour traffic decides to slam on his breaks for Sh*ts and Giggles, I'm not sure the 30 car pile-up that ensues isn't his fault regardless of who gets assigned the blame for insurance purposes. The same thing goes in skiing. You can't expect to slam on your breaks on a crowded run without a moment's notice and not cause all sorts of chaos.

I ALWAYS look up the hill when I'm stopping in the middle of a run or changing my line, because I ski quickly and someone following behind me isn't going to have time to react to my abrupt change of speed or direction unless I flash hand signals. Oh, maybe turn signals are the answer here. You could mount them on your helmet!

It's just common sense, be aware of your surroundings.

Oh, and I will personally tear those I-pod ear buds out through your nose if you are wearing them on a trail. You deserve to get biffed if you didn't hear me behind you.

On the car thing I agree with Marc and so does every State Trooper and judge. Even in rush hour traffic if your on the bumper of the person in front of you your setting yourself up for a possible collision. Just cause everyone does it doesn't make it the smart thing to do.

 

[dmc]

I think that's nuts. Do you hear anyone around you?

Sure... I don't use earbuds - my speakers are built into my helmet ear peices...

But more importantly - I try to stay aware of what around me visually... With all the noise of inbounds skiing - I don't relay on my ears..

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

On the car thing I agree with Marc and so does every State Trooper and judge. Even in rush hour traffic if your on the bumper of the person in front of you your setting yourself up for a possible collision. Just cause everyone does it doesn't make it the smart thing to do.

You missed my point. I agree that the letter of the law says the person trailing is "at fault", but that doesn't mean that the person who caused the problem in the first place isn't really the one to blame.

The Skier's Code makes the world safer by making the overtaking skier aware that they need to get around the person below them safely. Therefore, you give them room. If there wasn't a rule of the road, there would be chaos.

That being said, you can't ignore the fact that skiing is a bit more free flowing than traffic flow. It's not as predictable and we are definately not skiing at the same speed or witht same abilities. So, I could care less who is "to blame" in this circumstance, but I can tell you that the people who think that they can do whatever the hell they want to on the slopes because they have the "right of way" are the ones crying in the first aid station later on.

All it takes is a little awareness and consideration of your surroundings to enjoy this sport safely.

 

[Jean-Pierre Skier]

Sure... I don't use earbuds - my speakers are built into my helmet ear peices...

But more importantly - I try to stay aware of what around me visually... With all the noise of inbounds skiing - I don't relay on my ears..

As long as you hear something and are in tune with your surroundings, good on ya. But there are those guys that you litterally have to tap on the shoulder to get their attention. If I'm in their blind spot on the trail, they are either going to take me out or I'm taking them out, because they don't know I'm there.

 

[dmc]

As long as you hear something and are in tune with your surroundings, good on ya. But there are those guys that you litterally have to tap on the shoulder to get their attention. If I'm in their blind spot on the trail, they are either going to take me out or I'm taking them out, because they don't know I'm there.

The good thing about snowboarding is I can look backup the hill while riding...
I always fall when I tele cause i try and look back uphill.. Pretty funny actually...

 

[Skier75]

Why does it matter that it was a young kid on a snowboard. If it was an older man ( say one much bigger than you) who did the same thing would you and those on the board who agree have done the same thing? I bet not. I'm not a big fan of jackass teenagers but I also don't have a big heart for older people who act paternalistic all the time. If it was an older man (or another woman) I'm willing to bet none of you would have said a thing. I've been run into plenty by older jerks and young jerks and guess what- I find the younger kids WAY more likely to say sorry and ask if everything is ok. So...don't give me this "teenagers can be obnox. sometimes" as a justification for asking for an apology. I just think you are all conditioned to think that you are right all the time whenever a teenager is involved. Maybe he did say sorry and your wife didn't hear. Maybe he's just learning. Maybe "I was almost wiped out" was a little dramatic. Maybe he tripped. My point is - I think you all responded the way you did because you have a preconceived notion of a snowboarding teenager that judges this kid before anything happens. Remove that, change the actor and guess what..."oh it was just a little mistake."
whatever...I have to go learn tax.

I've been pretty quiet about this, but now I guess I should give my story.....

Yeah, it was a teenager and he did come up pretty fast behind be, just barely stopping before his snowboard hit the back of my skis, . If he did apologize, I didn't hear him. And I really wasn't making a big deal out of it nor was I looking to make a big deal out of it. The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is the fact that he was coming in way too fast for the lift line and yes he could've very well have taken me out if I wasn't paying attention. I'm not very big and it wouldn't take much to do that, and I hate getting hurt, if I'm gonna get hurt I'd rather it be on my own accord, not some wise ass teenager trying to show off to his buddies. And I would've responded the same way if it was "anyone", not just a teenager, cause some adults are just as bad sometimes. I don't like to make a big scene about things, I actually kinda shyly said to my husband that the snowboarder just hit the back of my skis, he doesn't have a problem speaking up to rude people. I do get annoyed by people that can't respect others, thinking they're the only ones around and do what ever they want, when they want, no matter who it affects. Anyway, I just think that everyone, including the young skiers/boarders to all of the older people just need to respect each other it and it would be such a "big deal". You know what they say, "to get respect, you have to give it". That goes for everyone.

 

[Marc]

Noobs on expert trails do not have the skills to judge someone hammering a falline..
If someone only gives a couple meters to some someone blasting a bumpline then when they enter - they'll get hit... And it's their fault.. You can't just blast into a line on an expert trail without giving someone enough room...

This is from the European code:
"Entering and restarting: Every skier entering a trail or starting after a halt has to assure himself uphill and downhill of the fact that he can do so without danger for himself and others."

Exactly, I don't disagree with you Doug. That's what my caveat about yielding was all about. It is the same exact thing as merging onto a highway at 35 mph and leaving 20 feet of room behind you for the person driving 65 mph. The person merging is at fault.

Your explanations work well before the change from "downhill" skier to "ahead" skier. Pretty simple and easy to understand but the change was made because sometimes the downhill skier is at fault in addition to the two scenerios you mentioned.

For example, if you are skiing down the trail and you are getting ready to pass a slower skier and for whatever reason the skier turns uphill and you slam into that skier, it's their fault even tho at the time of the collision they were the downhill skier.

Personally, like most things I like the old way better.

I see what you're saying. It is an important distinction. There perhaps is a gray area however, I always give a wide berth to other skiers ahead of me and I always need to feel confident I can avoid a potential accident no matter what maneuver the skier ahead of me attempts.

If some genius driving in rush-hour traffic decides to slam on his breaks for Sh*ts and Giggles, I'm not sure the 30 car pile-up that ensues isn't his fault regardless of who gets assigned the blame for insurance purposes. The same thing goes in skiing. You can't expect to slam on your breaks on a crowded run without a moment's notice and not cause all sorts of chaos.

I AM sure the 30 car pile-up is not his fault. The following car, assuming this is not a merge and yield situation is always at fault. There is no argument. The driver must be aware of the braking capabilities of both the car ahead and of the vehicle being driven, road conditions, visibility conditions, etc. and adjust a safe following distance accordingly.

This gets pounded into your head if you ever drive truck, because of how longit takes an 80,000 lb rig to stop. From driving a fire trucks, I know first hand how critically important it is to always maintain a safe following distance.

And I take the same exact philosphy to the slopes.

 

[thetrailboss]

I've been pretty quiet about this, but now I guess I should give my story.....

Yeah, it was a teenager and he did come up pretty fast behind be, just barely stopping before his snowboard hit the back of my skis, . If he did apologize, I didn't hear him. And I really wasn't making a big deal out of it nor was I looking to make a big deal out of it. The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is the fact that he was coming in way too fast for the lift line and yes he could've very well have taken me out if I wasn't paying attention. I'm not very big and it wouldn't take much to do that, and I hate getting hurt, if I'm gonna get hurt I'd rather it be on my own accord, not some wise ass teenager trying to show off to his buddies. And I would've responded the same way if it was "anyone", not just a teenager, cause some adults are just as bad sometimes. I don't like to make a big scene about things, I actually kinda shyly said to my husband that the snowboarder just hit the back of my skis, he doesn't have a problem speaking up to rude people. I do get annoyed by people that can't respect others, thinking they're the only ones around and do what ever they want, when they want, no matter who it affects. Anyway, I just think that everyone, including the young skiers/boarders to all of the older people just need to respect each other it and it would be such a "big deal". You know what they say, "to get respect, you have to give it". That goes for everyone.

I agree wholeheartedly.

There were two critical points presented, which have been overlooked. It all boils down to this:

1. The person who came down the slope was out of control and rude.

I think we all agree with this.

2. The response to the incident.

Some agree. Some don't agree with what was done.

The take home is that one needs to ski and ride in control. Period.

 

[dmc]

Yeah, it was a teenager and he did come up pretty fast behind be, just barely stopping before his snowboard hit the back of my skis, . If he did apologize, I didn't hear him. And I really wasn't making a big deal out of it nor was I looking to make a big deal out of it.

Until you posted it on the internet...

What happened to you actually doesn't seem like a big deal and I like that you didn't make it a big deal.....

And I don't know about you, but there have been times when I've come into a queue a little fast...

A little insight into snowboarding:
When you snowboard and a queue isn't filled that much - you try and ride into the queue before you take your foot out of the binding - sometime ducking ropes on uncrowded days.. It's a lot bettter then skating(rear foot out) into the queue with skiers blasting past you while your taking more room because you're foot is out..

Thing is - at some point you have to unstrap either before or while riding in the queue.. and if don't plan it right you can get into a little trouble.. 99% of the time I have no issues with this.. But sometimes if I'm skating my foot slips a little and I can go slightly off balance and accidently hit someones board(s)..

I always apologize... I hope people hear me now......

 

[dmc]

Exactly, I don't disagree with you Doug. That's what my caveat about yielding was all about. It is the same exact thing as merging onto a highway at 35 mph and leaving 20 feet of room behind you for the person driving 65 mph. The person merging is at fault.

It's about physics... And other stuff...

Mainly I sense a heuristic trap... If someone sees a person blasting down a falline, turning in control, at a good speed, on expert trarrain, totally in blance and working the terrain...

What makes downhill person think they can jump right into your line?

All these fact should make them think the uphill person is going to be on their ass like fur on a weasel in a second or two...
But something is telling them it's ok... Is it because the person is a woman? or on a snowboard? Or young?

Or are they just gapers and I'm reading too much into this...?

 

[Skier75]

This is uphillklimber, my wife logged in on me!!!!

Until you posted it on the internet...


A little insight into snowboarding:
When you snowboard and a queue isn't filled that much - you try and ride into the queue before you take your foot out of the binding - sometime ducking ropes on uncrowded days.. It's a lot bettter then skating(rear foot out) into the queue with skiers blasting past you while your taking more room because you're foot is out..

Wow, I didn't mean to start a hot button thread. I was looking to adjust what i had done a little. To be honest, I felt a little out of place with what I had done. A little, I could have addressed it a little better.

DMC, I understand what you are saying about skating, I've done a little snowboarding myself. Perhaps, I have not been real clear about what happened here. He did not come in from the back of the line. The ropes are, what, 35 feet long at the Barker quad. We're about half way up them to the head of the line. This kid came in from the side, not the end. He ducked under a couple ropes, misjudged his aim a little, basically sliding in on his butt a little.

I'll admit to being a little protective of my wife, she's a small girl. Like I said, I don't want to be the intolerant jerk on the mountain, but if something happens, I'll address it. I just want to be appropriate. Which is why I asked for opinions. And man!!! Have I ever gotten them.

Thanx all.

 

[AdironRider]

Cool bud, glad to see your not one whos to high on himself to take a little advice.

 

[dmc]

Wow, I didn't mean to start a hot button thread.

No worries... 8)

 

[Lostone]

maybe you can help me figure out how I am supposed to get one of my albums in that little disc player in my car?

Fold it. It works! I wouldn't lie. You can trust me. :wink:



As for the topic, the rules are set. If someone is ahead of you, and they haven't just come out from another trail or from a stop, they have the right of way.

Look thru the rules. You will notice it never mentions "your line" If they come out and you have to panic stop, they are at fault. If they make you change or stop your line; tough. That is what you get for skiing on a public ski area.

They posted the rules. They likely have them where you bought your ticket or pass. If you don't like those rules, get your own area or go to one that doesn't use those rules. (Bet you don't find one!) Or go backcountry, where there are no rules.

The person ahead can not look up while they are skiing. (Easier for riders, depending on which way they are facing.) The person from behind has the responsibility to avoid a collision. They're the only person that can see it coming.

If you are "hammering a line" and can't stop, you are not in control. The rules say you should not be doing so on a trail with othe people in front of you.

You can't drive that way , either, unless you are on a closed track with different rules.

I think those that rose to the defense of the boarder in question are part of the problem as to why people are rude. It does take a village, and parts of our village support its destruction.

 

[2knees]

I think those that rose to the defense of the boarder in question are part of the problem as to why people are rude. It does take a village, and parts of our village support its destruction.

no kidding. the original post was about a kid skidding into a liftline ducking ropes and bumping into someones wife. Holy crap, talk about case closed. the dude sounds like an idiot and if uphillklimber wanted a clear apology, fine. He deserved one. Its not like he took him behind the woodshed or something. The rest of it, well, we have all been cutoff or knocked down or even knocked someone else down. It happens. No, you dont have to be happy about it, but it happens.

 

[dmc]

If you are "hammering a line" and can't stop, you are not in control. The rules say you should not be doing so on a trail with othe people in front of you.

You can't drive that way , either, unless you are on a closed track with different rules.

I guess thats why there's expert/intermediate/beginner roads on the highway... :roll:

So you mean to tell me that if some gaper jumps in front of me from a dead stop on a bump line or sleezes in from behind on an angle that I'm supposed to stop!?!?!?

It's the physics of sking fast... You can't stop on a dime when you moving fast... Any person thats skied bumps that are tight knows that once you get going it's tough to stop...

As for the rules - it's a pile of contradictions...

 

[dmc]

no kidding. the original post was about a kid skidding into a liftline ducking ropes and bumping into someones wife. Holy crap, talk about case closed. the dude sounds like an idiot and if uphillklimber wanted a clear apology, fine. He deserved one. Its not like he took him behind the woodshed or something. The rest of it, well, we have all been cutoff or knocked down or even knocked someone else down. It happens. No, you dont have to be happy about it, but it happens.

So what - he apologized... Maybe he didn't do it to the guys liking but he did it...
What else could he do??? Get down on his knees and beg forgivness?

 

[dmc]

I think those that rose to the defense of the boarder in question are part of the problem as to why people are rude. It does take a village, and parts of our village support its destruction.

I guess it's rude to fall trying to get into a lift line then not apologize loud enough and then have some random guy say "you made sure she felt you, make sure she hears you apologize" and not react...

Yeah... Western civilization is going to crumble now...

 

[Mark_151]

This brings up the question -- what's the best CCW for the slope -- a S&W 637 Airweight snubby, or a Glock 26?:roll: