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If you could pick up and move.....

VTKilarney

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You honestly do not believe that a major shift in party power will have little or no impact on New Hampshire?

The early Democrats elected in Vermont were extremely moderate. Compared to today's Democrats in Vermont, Howard Dean was an absolute fiscal conservative when he was governor - who had to completely reinvent himself when he ran for President to attract support on a national level.

When I say that I see New Hampshire mirroring Vermont, that is what I am referring to. I'm not suggesting that there will be an equally abrupt change, but I don't possibly understand how you feel that a major shift in party leadership will have no impact on social policies.
 

deadheadskier

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Not in New Hampshire. No, I don't see such a shift happening. Like I said, the state's differentiation from it's neighbors is the foundation of it's economy. Whatever VT, ME and MA does, NH tends to do the opposite. Just look at the tobacco tax. When Mass raised theirs, NH lowered theirs to entice people to come over the border and spend their money here.

I don't plan on seeing things such as income taxes or sales taxes in my lifetime here.
 

VTKilarney

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I hope you are correct!

One thing that New Hampshire has done very well is showing that you can have a robust economy without high government spending.
 
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xwhaler

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I really like where we live now....hour to decent skiing, 90 mins to great skiing (Cannon) and NVT is doable in 2:30-3 hrs.
25 mins to the beach, 30 mins to downtown Portsmouth and its host of restaurants, culture. I put my boat in Portsmouth downtown and can be out to the Isles of Shoals, Kittery, Dover Point, Little Harbor in a short amt of time.

Boston (though not my scene) is just over an hour away to catch flights out of Logan or see a Sox game. I work in Mass on the NH border and my commute is 50 mins which is not great but we make it work.

If $ were no object however and I didn't need to work anymore, I'd probably re locate up to Rangeley ME. Unbelievable 4 season outdoor experience with some of the best EC skiing. Long way from family and I worry a bit about being a bit isolated but overall I think that would be my pick.
Zero interest in ever moving out of Northern New England.
 

otisshirley

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Just one data point: I have friends (couple in their 40s, two kids) in the described financial situation who are avid skiers. They used to live near Palo Alto and had a house in Tahoe. They moved to Aspen and love it in every way.

Most of the other people I know who could live anywhere have stayed put. Inertia, friends, kids' schools, kids' friends, etc. tend to outweigh everything else.
 

Domeskier

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I understand that there is triple black diamond extreme skiing in Calumet, Michigan in the copper country. And they average more snow than the mighty Tug Hill!
 

dlague

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Since about 1992, the Democratic party has made major inroads in New Hampshire.

Primarily due to the mass migration from MA. Southern NH is now northern MA IMO, which has had a huge impact. However, so far, our Democratic governors have been some what moderate and things have not changed dramatically with the exception of a few left leaning policies that go unnoticed by most.

Any disruption relative to income or sales tax would have significant impact on the party in power so I do not se changes in that respect.

I still find it to be a nice central location to ski from!
 

BenedictGomez

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You can speculate all you want. I live here, vote and pay attention to what's brought to the table. The larger presence of Democrats in government here has not had the effect you'd think it would. None of the things you are speaking of have happened.

Yes, I'm well aware. That's what "speculating" is about, predicting the future.

I had the same conversation with Vermonters in the 1990s when I predicted (correctly) Vermont's future. NO WAY that will happen in Vermont! etc... Also, the change I speak of comes slowly. What's happened in Vermont is rather quick from that perspective, aided entirely from the low population (2nd lowest in America).

But New Hampshire is Little Bighorn, and they're surrounded. The House is already Democrat. The Senate is barely Republican. Those southern Republican areas are living on borrowed time due to the Taxachussetts invasion by Democrats. They have perhaps a few election cycles left in them, then the House and Senate of New Hampshire will be Democrat. Once the Democrats in New Hampshire pass the tipping point where they're not just winning elections, but believe "they cant lose", the fiscally responsible policies will be gone...history....see ya. The social stuff will come with it. I am as confident of this as I am the sun shall rise tomorrow.

Primarily due to the mass migration from MA. Southern NH is now northern MA IMO, which has had a huge impact. However, so far, our Democratic governors have been some what moderate and things have not changed dramatically with the exception of a few left leaning policies that go unnoticed by most.


This is one of the starkest immigration patterns in all of America.

I'm a total dork for economics who actually looks at this stuff, but the "fleeing" from Massachusetts to New Hampshire LEAPS off the page when you look at the data. I dont know anything about Middlesex county, but if you look at the tax data it's amazing how many people from there have moved to the two southeasternmost counties in New Hampshire (mostly to the county with Portsmouth).

In fact, the "fleeing" from Essex County to New Hampshire would look impressive too if not for the fact it's swamped by Middlesex Mass. But put it this way, in less than 20 years, > $2.5 BILLION in AGI has poured into just those TWO NH counties from just those TWO MA counties. That's positively astounding.
 

hammer

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What I can't figure is how anyone can see living in southern NH and working in Mass. as being cheaper...housing prices maybe? Those folks get the worst of both worlds tax-wise, high income taxes from Mass. and high property taxes (not that my property taxes are cheap but at least we have prop 2.5).
 

twinplanx

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At least this Thread hasn't gotten political yet... :-(

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk
 

BenedictGomez

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At least this Thread hasn't gotten political yet... :-(

It really hasn't.

People pointing out demographic trends and/or tax trends based on actual hard recorded census and IRS data, isn't "political", it's "pointing out something that occurred".
 

4aprice

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For me I have to do some more traveling before I could make a decision. Currently have property interests in NJ and Florida. Would like to get rid of some (while keeping a toe hold) in NJ, and add elsewhere. Have traveled extensively (and skied) in Colorado and Utah but would like to get to see Idaho, Montana and maybe eastern Washington before making any decisions. Currently Salt Lake would be high on my list. I have never had any issues with the Morman aspect of life out there, there are some nice boating reservoirs not too far from the metro (only interested in fresh water boating) and most importantly a convenient airport. Expect the daughter to end up back in NJ (thus the toehold here) but have no idea where the boy will go after school. Who knows, what I would really love may not exist in the west (is there a place like Winnipesaukee out there?) but regardless our future will involve more time out west.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ
 

xwhaler

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What I can't figure is how anyone can see living in southern NH and working in Mass. as being cheaper...housing prices maybe? Those folks get the worst of both worlds tax-wise, high income taxes from Mass. and high property taxes (not that my property taxes are cheap but at least we have prop 2.5).

In my case its really 3 main reasons: 1) Job opportunity, 2) housing costs at time we purchased in So NH 8 yrs ago (back when I was employed in NH), and 3) no sales tax

Beyond the litany of other reasons why I much prefer living in NH, these are prob the 3 most compelling cost reasons why it works for us. My wife is employed in NH so at least its only one of us paying income taxes.
 

twinplanx

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It really hasn't.

People pointing out demographic trends and/or tax trends based on actual hard recorded census and IRS data, isn't "political", it's "pointing out something that occurred".

Yes, and I was pointing out that it sounds a bit like POLITICAL figure pointing. Denial is not only a river in Egypt...

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snoseek

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For me I have to do some more traveling before I could make a decision. Currently have property interests in NJ and Florida. Would like to get rid of some (while keeping a toe hold) in NJ, and add elsewhere. Have traveled extensively (and skied) in Colorado and Utah but would like to get to see Idaho, Montana and maybe eastern Washington before making any decisions. Currently Salt Lake would be high on my list. I have never had any issues with the Morman aspect of life out there, there are some nice boating reservoirs not too far from the metro (only interested in fresh water boating) and most importantly a convenient airport. Expect the daughter to end up back in NJ (thus the toehold here) but have no idea where the boy will go after school. Who knows, what I would really love may not exist in the west (is there a place like Winnipesaukee out there?) but regardless our future will involve more time out west.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

You would like Tahoe I think if you're into lakes and year round goodness.
 

boston_e

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What I can't figure is how anyone can see living in southern NH and working in Mass. as being cheaper...housing prices maybe? Those folks get the worst of both worlds tax-wise, high income taxes from Mass. and high property taxes (not that my property taxes are cheap but at least we have prop 2.5).

I've wondered about that too... particularly with what could potentially be a long commute if someone works on the 128 belt or on the interior of 128... a lot of miles on the car to factor in there.

I'd guess the financial side of it is less of a driver in the decisions and its largely just that there are a lot of great areas in southern NH to live in regardless of the tax situation etc.
 

deadheadskier

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I'd guess the financial side of it is less of a driver in the decisions and its largely just that there are a lot of great areas in southern NH to live in regardless of the tax situation etc.

One thing to factor in on the value side is that even though mill rate property taxes are higher in NH, the valuations are lower. You get a lot more home for the money and though you end up paying a higher rate, the total out of pocket expense is equal or lower than many Mass communities.
 

BenedictGomez

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What I can't figure is how anyone can see living in southern NH and working in Mass. as being cheaper...housing prices maybe? Those folks get the worst of both worlds tax-wise, high income taxes from Mass. and high property taxes

I'm guessing the wages they can earn in MA are substantially higher than what they can earn in NH, even adjusting for the larger tax bite they're taking?


Yes, and I was pointing out that it sounds a bit like POLITICAL figure pointing. Denial is not only a river in Egypt...

Call it "finger pointing" or whatever you like, but I for the life of me cant understand how you think having an intellectual discussion about the high tax burden in these Democrat-run states is a politically charged conversation. No more so than pointing out Rabbits like carrots for heaven's sake. It's not "opinion" or "theory" or some controversial abstract thing, it's simply routine crap everybody knows.
 

Rowsdower

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Came here to say Vancouver, but it was already said. Not sure if I cold endure the dreary weather however. I love the Northeast though. It has everything I could want even if the mountains are smaller. It makes for a different kind of experience and you learn to appreciate the outdoors a bit more I think. Life is full of compromises.
 
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