If you owned ASC, what would you do?

[andyzee]

Next I would take one of the snowcats out for a spin just because it looks like fun and I'm the boss.

The best one yet!

 

[Greg]

I would sell off Attitash, Killington and Steamboat.. buy back Sugarbush... (just for me)

Change my company name to NESC (New England Ski Company)...

Hire a team of wicked winter engineers to build snow machines that run off the energy produced by the humidity in the air...cutting down on electrical costs and allowing the company to blow more snow.

GROOM LESS Let's get back to basics..

Get rid of all the ugly condos and build a beautiful log ski lodge for each resort with cabins and hotel rooms at reasonable prices..discounts for Maine/Vermont residents. Down Comforters, comfy beds and oversized tubs.

Get rid of the existing restaurants... put in a Mountain-style pub at each resort with antlers on the wall and a big walk around fireplace..that serves game...pub fare and it's own home brewed beer.

Redecorate EVERYTHING..ugh...

Smile ... a lot and be happy

I'd visit these resorts.

 

[loafer89]

Exactly the reason the interconnect is a terrible idea. I agree with 2Knees.

An interconnect would lead to more vanilla for the home of McMountains. Bleeeech!

I'm a firm believer that sometimes you have to protect people from what they want.

If you protect Pico from an interconnect, unless the owners have deep pockets, or can be affiliated with another resort, it goes bankrupt. ASC rescued (I use that term lightly) Pico in October of 1996 as the owners of Pico where about to go under. I think that Pico made an offer to Preston Smith to buy Pico in 1989 or 1990 and Killington managed the mountain for 1-2 years?, but declined to buy the place. I foresee the same thing happening again if ASC goes down, Pico will again be looking for a buyer.

I am with andyzee, the joining of the two resorts would benefit them mutually. Pico would get the attention that the mountain deserves without having to alter the trails and the season on the mountain could be increased from it's paltry 3-4 months right now. People that have never been to Pico would most likely visit it, since it would not require an extra car or shuttle bus trip.

 

[JimG.]

If you protect Pico from an interconnect, unless the owners have deep pockets, or can be affiliated with another resort, it goes bankrupt. ASC rescued (I use that term lightly) Pico in October of 1996 as the owners of Pico where about to go under. I think that Pico made an offer to Preston Smith to buy Pico in 1989 or 1990 and Killington managed the mountain for 1-2 years?, but declined to buy the place. I foresee the same thing happening again if ASC goes down, Pico will again be looking for a buyer.

I am with andyzee, the joining of the two resorts would benefit them mutually. Pico would get the attention that the mountain deserves without having to alter the trails and the season on the mountain could be increased from it's paltry 3-4 months right now. People that have never been to Pico would most likely visit it, since it would not require an extra car or shuttle bus trip.

Based on the premise that one of us could buy it and implement these changes rationally, you have a point I would not try to counter.

As it stands today, with the current owners in place, this would be just another example of the blind leading the blind. ASC lead Pico out from financial trouble? I doubt it.

 

[loafer89]

Based on the premise that one of us could buy it and implement these changes rationally, you have a point I would not try to counter.

As it stands today, with the current owners in place, this would be just another example of the blind leading the blind. ASC lead Pico out from financial trouble? I doubt it.

I think that ASC was high on the hog in October of 1996 when Pico became available for sale, since then and with ASC's finances worse by the year, Pico is in the worst shape that I have ever seen it, but I am not sure if ASC ownership/management of Pico is better or worse than anyone else could do if they where to purchase it individually and compete against Killington.

I am curious if anyone would buy Pico if ASC put it up for sale, certainly it would reduce operating costs for ASC, not that they put much into it right now. If I bought ASC and could not connect the two, I certainly would try to sell the mountain.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I too would not bother with the Pico inter-connect, the cost vs benefit seems way over weighed towards too costly. Once solid plans were proposed just to get the Act 250 permit would cost millions. For what?

Secondly I think it's important to have your products be attractive to a wide variety of customers. Pico would appeal to old school types like alot of us. Don't put in high speed lifts but make the place first rate, especially the bathrooms(lol). Offer reciprocal day tiks but have to use shuttle.

I don't think you could connect the places and at the same time not causing Pico to change.

 

[loafer89]

From what I can understand and have read, the Act 250 permit is already in place since 1997, and all that is needed is the necessary funding to complete the project.

 

[andyzee]

From what I can understand and have read, the Act 250 permit is already in place since 1997, and all that is needed is the necessary funding to complete the project.

Probably wouldn't take much, there's already a trail running between the two, never tried it, but looks like it's only good in one direction.

 

[2knees]

never tried it, but looks like it's only good in one direction.

lol isnt that generally how a ski trail works?

 

[andyzee]

lol isnt that generally how a ski trail works?

:smile: Damn, never thought of that!:smile:
By that remark, what I meant was that a way to go in the other direction was needed, either another trail or a lift.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

From what I can understand and have read, the Act 250 permit is already in place since 1997, and all that is needed is the necessary funding to complete the project.

Yup, that's right but the longer they wait the greater the chance that they will have to redo much of the process. They have to apply for extensions and the last time they did this was 2004, I think. In addition, the state has said due to ASC's financial condition they would have to show that they have the moula to complete the project.

From what I have read ASC is confident that getting the permits after 10 years would not be that hard but would cost them some bucks.

Again, what would be the benefit to having the interconnect? It seems that it would only slightly benefit Kmart at the expense of totally changing Pico's allure.

 

[wintersyndrome]

This is a great post because it deals with the love-hate relationship we all have with ASC. We love their mountains, but hate the "McMountain Resort" environment generated by them.

I agree with most of you that theyneed to sell their real-estate holdings and since they are "American Skiing Company" they should focus on one thing ...SKIING!! (Its not american ski-resort real estate holdings and $12 hamburger company, now is it?)

There are many Hospitality Management companies that know how to run Hotels, Inns and the like. Partner with them by getting them to come on as the hotel management segment of the company (for a buyout fee of that segment) or leverage a complete buy-out so the folks at ASC can focus on creating a better product of a skiing mountain.

Unload the Canyons, Steamboat, and any other loosing propostions in your portfolio.

Focus on improving the Cash-making machines that Mt. Snow, and Killington are. (shareholders like profit not promises)
And for God Sakes...get rid of the Summit local at Mt. Snow and put a Gondola or Six-pack there...your guys are killing me with the 25 minute wait on the "Summit Express"
after that you had better put a H/S quad back in sunbrook, hell that ancient quad has been there at least since I was in eighth grade (18 years ago)

Killington on the other hand is a product of its own marketing. It seriously needs a makeover because coming up that access road I feel like I stepped back in time to the 80s and I should have straight skis and no snowboards ontop of my car. And could we just re-wrap all those gondola cars It looks like a music video nightmare...look up the road to the 'bush at the benefits of conscise planning could bring, Sugarbush is larger but through controlled expansion they have been able to hold onto the flavor that is Distinctly VErmont, and Distinctly Sugarbush.

IMHO the interconnect is what will help killington, return back to its glory days maybe Im dillusional (I'm sure that will bring on some humbling comments from the rest of y'all) but perhaps, just perhaps, the Pico vibe can spread to the rest of Killington. by allowing all of the skier visitors to spread out on pico and between, theres alot of mountain between the two (just check it out on google maps use hybrid or satellite and you can see for yourself)
perhaps Killingotn could loose that congested feel by removing everyone from the K-1 Base area

But hey we're just dreaming here right

 

[thaller1]

[QUOTE/]

Killington on the other hand is a product of its own marketing. It seriously needs a makeover because coming up that access road I feel like I stepped back in time to the 80s and I should have straight skis and no snowboards ontop of my car. Sugarbush is larger but through controlled expansion they have been able to hold onto the flavor that is Distinctly VErmont, and Distinctly Sugarbush.


[/QUOTE]

I'm sooooo glad to hear someone else feels the same way!! I know Killington is a great mountain but I hate to go there because it's depressing ..the restaurants are uneventful and outdated..the shops are..the hotels..yuck! I just despise that atmosphere.. it could use a complete makeover..

 

[rogue rider]

I have to disagree with everyone who thinks ASC should dump their real estate holdings. I would think that Food&Beverage and Lodging are probably 2 of their biggest sources of revenue. That is why they are offering the cheap season passes. They want people to show up so they can rent rooms and buy food.

Its like Vegas in reverse. In Vegas they give you the room and buffet for next to nothing so you can spend money in the casino. ASC gives you the season pass for next to nothing so you can buy food and rent rooms.

The problem with this is as some have said, they seem to have lost sight of the reason people come in the first place. They need to invest in the mountain and make it a place people want to come.

 

[maplevalleymaster]

The way they are right now, if there are any resorts that don't make money sell them and eventually they will make themselves out of debt.

 

[loafer89]

I do not have a problem with the access road, but I could forsee that some skiers/riders would want a base village. Personally I like the underdeveloped feeling that the K-Base has and it gives the skiing a more wild appeal than lets say Stratton or Okemo have with their faux European style villages.

I think that the skiing at Killington should be improved first with tons of money spent on new lifts, snowmaking upgrades and a dedication to skiing, not corporate skiing.

 

[madskier6]

look up the road to the 'bush at the benefits of conscise planning could bring, Sugarbush is larger but through controlled expansion they have been able to hold onto the flavor that is Distinctly VErmont, and Distinctly Sugarbush.

Sugarbush is bigger than Killington? Not the last time I checked.

I'm not saying I disagree with your basic point about concise planning and retaining the distinctly Vermont/distinctly Sugarbush flavor. But I was wondering what you meant by SB being bigger than K-Mart and how that affected your basic point. Care to explain further?

 

[tjm235]

I have to disagree with everyone who thinks ASC should dump their real estate holdings. I would think that Food&Beverage and Lodging are probably 2 of their biggest sources of revenue. That is why they are offering the cheap season passes. They want people to show up so they can rent rooms and buy food.

Its like Vegas in reverse. In Vegas they give you the room and buffet for next to nothing so you can spend money in the casino. ASC gives you the season pass for next to nothing so you can buy food and rent rooms.

The problem with this is as some have said, they seem to have lost sight of the reason people come in the first place. They need to invest in the mountain and make it a place people want to come.

I agree with you on the real estate holdings. A big reason Steamboat may have trouble selling is because we have no real estate holdings, ASC has already sold them off... now we're essentially just selling a business, and revenue has to be generated through ticket/pass/F&B/ski school sales, which in my mind is not the best way to make money in the ski industry. Real estate is the main way ski resorts are making money these days. Sure I'd love for resorts to be solely about the skiing experience, but that's not where the money is, and what business doesn't want to make a profit?

 

[Razor]

Some interesting comments. My take is ASC isn't going anywhere until it gets out of debt. Exorbitant interest costs are money down the toilet. I think they'd have to sell both western resorts to get what they need. But I think it would kill them to sell Canyons which, for any of you who have never been there, makes any of the eastern resorts look tiny and poverty-stricken. The eastern resorts vs. the western resorts are like apples vs. oranges. They are way too different to be part of one company. Maybe the Loaf would have to go, too. As great as it is to ski, it's way too far away from population centers to generate much more business than it does now. And I think the diehard Maineiacs would be glad to get it away from ASC.

Once out of debt, let's put some money into the ski product. Do the interconnect. Right now Pico is an underutilized asset. I agree with comments about Pico's character, but we're talking good business. Improve the lifts at Mt. Snow, as someone mentioned. Add more trails and tree skiing at Sunday River. Do more to get more serious terrain there. It's available if they have the money to get to it. Get back to early openings and late closings.

All the resorts have to become more year round destinations. I think that's key. They are dead for more than half the year. The K access road is like a ghost town from April till October. Build the village at K. It has the potential to become the Whistler of the east if done right. Same with Sunday River. A village environment around South Ridge would help fill up the many beds at the resort. Market the golf. I played the new course at Sunday River and it is fantastic. But to succeed the resorts have to offer something to the non-skiers/golfers. Maybe Foxwoods North?

 

[andyzee]

With regards to realestate holdings, hotels, restaurants, etc.... They may be good for a resort when conditions are good. But what happens during bad conditions when you have less people coming to the mountain. Now, not only are you making less at the mountain, but you may be losing money on the other holding. Keep in mind, staff needs to be paid, heating, electricity, tax, etc......