Improving Ski Reports

[billski]

I'm going to make a suggestion for ski report posters as a way to improve your reports. Please try to be inclusive of all abilities in your narratives. Some reports spend most of their time talking about the trails hucked, all the diamonds and backwoods skied and don't make any comments about green trails. At the risk of offending some, it's beginning to feel a little bit clubby and a bit like bragging. I can think of at least two other forums that are already quite clubby and I would like this forum not to transcend to that.

Don't get me wrong. I know each of you are good, sincere and well-intended and I appreciate that. It's easy for me to overlook the warts and blemishes, but it makes lower-level skiers, married with kids or older skier very hesitant to engage in this and other forum. I deal with a broad range of skiers on a regular basis and have always maintained a focus on getting newbies and lower-level skiers to progress (I am not in the business, but am involved in ski clubs and groups.)

Next time you ski, try to take note of what the newbies are doing and lower level conditions look like. I believe a lot of people would appreciate a tip about where the good trails are for beginners, where to stay away from, and what conditions were like for lower-level skiers. For us to rant about how a trail was a human slalom course is not very helpful to beginners.

People look at reports posted for various reasons. Some want to know if the woods are good, but others just want to know that they will be safe and coddled on the easy greens and that their wife won't divorce them for taking them on a death trip. Others just want to know how crowded it is and how long they'll have to wait in line.

Advanced skiers should try to help the young-uns not just with an encouraging word on the slopes, but some tips about where and when to go. It is an investment we are making in our own sport. The more people we can help grow into this sport, the more money it brings and the more stability we will have in resort operations.

Thanks for listening and good skiing to everyone.

 

[Paul]

Excellent post. I agree 100%.

Some want to know if the woods are good, but others just want to know that they will be safe and coddled on the easy greens and that their wife won't divorce them for taking them on a death trip.

True. Funny....but true. ;-)

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Well said, I am far below most skill levels here, and I spent all day at Okemo on tuesday on the green runs, they ran from top to bottom and were nice cruising. I'll keep all the other stuff in mind as well.

I have to be honest, I came into this thread hoping to see ski reports from areas with fully opened mountains, etc.. :razz:

 

[Greg]

I guess I see your point, but I wouldn't want to put any additional specific restrictions on how to post a TR. We already try to encourage a structured format and even that sometimes doesn't get used which is okay as some info is better than none. I feel if we try to further "instruct" how to do a TR, it will discourage use even more.

I don't think the TRs are cliquey. I also don't think the TRs in general have any sort of bragging tone to them. There are a number of pretty damn good skiers here (I've skied with many of them). Folks are going to post based on their experiences on the hill. If you're not skiing greens, it's hard to report on them...

 

[billski]

Nope. It's there.

I guess I see your point, but I wouldn't want to put any additional specific restrictions on how to post a TR. We already try to encourage a structured format and even that sometimes doesn't get used which is okay as some info is better than none. I feel if we try to further "instruct" how to do a TR, it will discourage use even more.

I don't think the TRs are cliquey. I also don't think the TRs in general have any sort of bragging tone to them. There are a number of pretty damn good skiers here (I've skied with many of them). Folks are going to post based on their experiences on the hill. If you're not skiing greens, it's hard to report on them...

Greg,

I can't agree with you. It's not a matter of providing more structure. It's intonation. It's what people say and don't say that set the tone for the group at large, whether it be in the trip report or general discussion forum. It's what people don't say. Lower-skill level correspondents posting at certain groups are met with a cold-shoulder. Nobody responds and the banter continues on high-end topics. I would encourage you to review these posts at other forums and look for that. Clubbiness and bragging are something that develop slowly over time. It's there, not in most of them and not by most posters, but it is indeed there. I don't suspect a lower-level skier would have the gumption to even bring this up in the forum.

Most skiers ski through a green on the way back to the lodge and on the uplift. I don't agree we're never on a green trail. Why not also comment on crowds, lines, hassles, parking, other things that are a common experience to all of us? It only takes a line or two and makes the discussion feel a lot more open. Omissions like indeed contribute to an exclusive feeling.


To get a true read on this issue, I would encourage newer or lower-level skiers to weigh in right here on this thread. Then we can see where the line between perception and reality is.

 

[billski]

Greens

Well said, I am far below most skill levels here, and I spent all day at Okemo on tuesday on the green runs, they ran from top to bottom and were nice cruising. I'll keep all the other stuff in mind as well.

I have to be honest, I came into this thread hoping to see ski reports from areas with fully opened mountains, etc.. :razz:

I for one would be very interested in hearing (your) a green-cruiser's perspective on the resort, skiing all bundled into a trip report. There is clearly an audience for such. I often write reports that only focus on lower level skiers, even though I've spend some of the day outback.

 

[Greg]

Greg,

I can't agree with you. It's not a matter of providing more structure. It's intonation. It's what people say and don't say that set the tone for the group at large, whether it be in the trip report or general discussion forum. It's what people don't say. Lower-skill level correspondents posting at certain groups are met with a cold-shoulder. Nobody responds and the banter continues on high-end topics. I would encourage you to review these posts at other forums and look for that. Clubbiness and bragging are something that develop slowly over time. It's there, not in most of them and not by most posters, but it is indeed there.

This site has several hundred active members, all of varying personalities, experiences and sliding ability. I can't possibly encourage folks to post TRs in a certain way. That's the surest way to discourage use.

Some might call it cliquishness, some "clubbiness". I call it comraderie. In any case, it's a natural progression as a community like this grows. Trust me, we're far more civil and welcoming here of newbies than just about any other ski forum I know of. I've always tried to encourage a tone here that makes anyone feel comfortable regardless of ability. I think we've acheived that for the most part.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Lower-skill level correspondents posting at certain groups are met with a cold-shoulder. Nobody responds and the banter continues on high-end topics." Do you mean general skiing forum posts, or TRs? The TRs that receive the most replies are normally the ones that are about groups of AZers meeting up to ski. Maybe you should head out to some of these gatherings sometime, billski. There you will see some examples of just how skiers of all abilities can meet up and have a good time together offline.

 

[ajl50]

this winter you might be getting that feeling because up to this point the people who want to "just cruise" on greens have been deterred from going skiing while the more hardcore skiiers have been out there. Accordingly the trip reports reflect that.

 

[billski]

This site has several hundred active members, all of varying personalities, experiences and sliding ability. I can't possibly encourage folks to post TRs in a certain way. That's the surest way to discourage use.

Some might call it cliquishness, some "clubbiness". I call it comraderie. In any case, it's a natural progression as a community like this grows. Trust me, we're far more civil and welcoming here of newbies than just about any other ski forum I know of. I've always tried to encourage a tone here that makes anyone feel comfortable regardless of ability. I think we've acheived that for the most part.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Lower-skill level correspondents posting at certain groups are met with a cold-shoulder. Nobody responds and the banter continues on high-end topics." Do you mean general skiing forum posts, or TRs? The TRs that receive the most replies are normally the ones that are about groups of AZers meeting up to ski. Maybe you should head out to some of these gatherings sometime, billski. There you will see some examples of just how skiers of all abilities can meet up and have a good time together offline.

Greg, You still miss the point. Encouraging me to join in the camraderie does nothing to include lower-skill-level people to participate on the fourm. My comments are about how and what we write. It's not about how I view the group, it's about how others view the group.

Many lower-skill-level people don't bother to write trip reports because the banter reflects a higher-skill level of interest. Intonation is found throughout all forum threads. Of the several hundred members, I would be interested in seeing how many unique posters you have had in the past week, month and year. I suspect that a small number constitute 80% of the posts.

 

[Greg]

this winter you might be getting that feeling because up to this point the people who want to "just cruise" on greens have been deterred from going skiing while the more hardcore skiiers have been out there. Accordingly the trip reports reflect that.

Perhaps. Also, the crappy weather until recently has been making everybody a bit more cynical...

 

[hrstrat57]

compared to epic and tgr I think most az trip reports I have read are excellent and smack largely of very little bravado....zand and rivercoil for example are constantly brilliant.

That said I like the tr's on epic and tgr too (esp highway star related trip reports:beer: )

I consider az king of the www trip report, keeping in mind I have only been lurking about 3 yrs

creme de la creme so to speak.....

I like it.

 

[hammer]

this winter you might be getting that feeling because up to this point the people who want to "just cruise" on greens have been deterred from going skiing while the more hardcore skiiers have been out there. Accordingly the trip reports reflect that.

I made it out on Sunday and stayed on the greens at Pats Peak...does that make me hardcore or just a cruiser? :wink:

Honestly, though, while I have seen some TRs that discuss terrain that is beyond my skill level (bumps, woods, etc.) I have seen a fair share of TRs that do address conditions on a variety of the trails in a ski area.

In addition, I try to post TRs when I can, and I know I have a ways to go to be an advanced skier. My TRs may not get as much interest, but I figure I can provide a different viewpoint.

My biggest advice is to encourage more of the non-expert members here to post TRs so that we can continue to get different perspectives.

 

[hrstrat57]

I made it out on Sunday and stayed on the greens at Pats Peak...does that make me hardcore or just a cruiser? :wink:

Honestly, though, while I have seen some TRs that discuss terrain that is beyond my skill level (bumps, woods, etc.) I have seen a fair share of TRs that do address conditions on a variety of the trails in a ski area.

In addition, I try to post TRs when I can, and I know I have a ways to go to be an advanced skier. My TRs may not get as much interest, but I figure I can provide a different viewpoint.

My biggest advice is to encourage more of the non-expert members here to post TRs so that we can continue to get different perspectives.

I'd like to see everybody post every time they go to the hill, esp right now with the limited terrain avail....I would read them all.

It is all good.

 

[2knees]

I read just about every tr that is posted. I dont respond to many of them because, generally, all that i can think of is "nice tr" and that would get a little monotonous.

but, i enjoy reading them regardless of the percieved ability of the poster.

 

[Greg]

Greg, You still miss the point. Encouraging me to join in the camraderie does nothing to include lower-skill-level people to participate on the fourm. My comments are about how and what we write. It's not about how I view the group, it's about how others view the group.

No. I got your point. You didn't get mine; which is there is really very little we can (or should) do about it. I'm not about to come in here and encourage a certain intonation in terms of TRs or any post for that matter. As long as folks follow the very reasonable forum policies, they can express their opinion any way they want. This place would quickly become pretty boring if we tried to keep it totally safe and sterile. In fact, we've been criticised for over-moderating quite a bit. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess... :roll:

Many lower-skill-level people don't bother to write trip reports because the banter reflects a higher-skill level of interest. Intonation is found throughout all forum threads. Of the several hundred members, I would be interested in seeing how many unique posters you have had in the past week, month and year. I suspect that a small number constitute 80% of the posts.

We have in fact a thread regarding your final point here. How many other forum admins/mods would take the time to address an issue like that? Anyway, I've personally skied with several intermediate AZ skiers. They don't seem to have a problem with the intonation here. I think the desire to participate is more a matter of personality than it is skill level.

 

[Grassi21]

I agree with billski and Greg. Its not the best move to require a person to right a trip report in a certain way. But at the same time, I can't yet ski a number of the trails mentioned in some of the trail reports and would like to know about the intermediate terrain. But let's face it, this is a message board. If an expert skier a writes a TR that focuses on the trees and moguls with no mention of the groomers you can always ask about other areas of the mountain. These threads are meant to be discussions.

 

[tcharron]

Greg, You still miss the point. Encouraging me to join in the camraderie does nothing to include lower-skill-level people to participate on the fourm. My comments are about how and what we write. It's not about how I view the group, it's about how others view the group.

Many lower-skill-level people don't bother to write trip reports because the banter reflects a higher-skill level of interest. Intonation is found throughout all forum threads. Of the several hundred members, I would be interested in seeing how many unique posters you have had in the past week, month and year. I suspect that a small number constitute 80% of the posts.

Perhaps your right, but I should point out that what prompted me to actually write ski reports, even though my trip reports are from the perspective of a greenhorn, is Greg responding with 'And remember to fill out a trip report!'. There it was. Someone who could probably do ten runs down a black while I'm still shivering in fear going down a moderate difficulty trail, asking for MY input. Even if it's just how the snow looked and felt.

I see no harm in mentioning in the report layout something along the line of 'Try to take a look around at the conditions of the mountain in general, and give a good feel for the mountain as a whole'. I'd also add a note 'We encourage EVERYONE to submit trip reports. Everyones eyes help us all!' or something along those lines.

 

[bvibert]

I think that all Billski is suggesting is that people try to include conditions or whatever might help the more novice skiers/riders in their reports if they happen to notice/remember. If not, then no big deal. I also like the idea to encourage all levels of skiers to post reports, even if they think that their day on the greens won't interest anyone...

 

[Grassi21]

I have to admit, I was a little nervous about posting my first TR. But since then, no worries. I read as many TRs from other AZers as possible to get the format and jargon down. I'm not one to keep a journal, but this is a cool way to look back at some of those memorable, or not so memorable days on the hill.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I for one would be very interested in hearing (your) a green-cruiser's perspective on the resort, skiing all bundled into a trip report. There is clearly an audience for such. I often write reports that only focus on lower level skiers, even though I've spend some of the day outback.

I posted one for Okemo on the 9th. Not the most detailed, but hopefully good enough. I'm heading to Stratton on Wednesday, I'll be more detailed in my report for that one. I really liked the atmosphere at Okemo, best day skiing this year. That had ALOT to do with zero crowds.
I can't ski in crowds. I'm always so scared I'm going to lose control and wham into someone. Ironically, I was clipped by 2 snowboarders at Loon on the 28th. They both met the hard-pack, it helps to be 6' 220lbs