Nice way to put it. :-o
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Improving Ski Reports
- Thread starter billski
- Start date
Nice way to put it. :-o
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Agreed. Of course we like to get TRs from everybody. Like others have mentioned, I read and enjoy most of them, especially ones from mountains I frequent. I personally enjoy writing my own as well as it's sort of my personal ski-log and as pathetic as it sounds, come August I often timed pull them up to review the previous season (helps with the jones a bit
). I'm going to write my TR based on my experience. I try to include conditions of the trails overall and will certainly post something that might benefit others regardless of ability, but who am I to say that a TR is not "good enough" or doesn't provide enough useful information for skiers of other abilities. Again, if this perceived problem is truly a problem, what could we possibly we do about it? If we start criticizing the TRs that are being submitted, that source of info will certainly dry up. Similarly, I don't think it's fair as mods to jump in and try to squash some banter between a couple of AZ buddies. IMO, doing any of this takes the soul out of the community.
Personally, the next time i write a tr, i will include my observations of the area in general. Crowding, overall conditions, lift lines etc. I hope this is in some way what you are getting at. now i just need a trip to report on.
Agreed. Of course we like to get TRs from everybody. Like others have mentioned, I read and enjoy most of them, especially ones from mountains I frequent. I personally enjoy writing my own as well as it's sort of my personal ski-log and as pathetic as it sounds, come August I often timed pull them up to review the previous season (helps with the jones a bit
I agree we don't want to moderate or judge trip reports. I think it would be good to encourage TRs that also have more novice friendly details in them. Even if it's just something you observed on your way to more gnar terrain, like that green trail looked really skied off, or was pretty crowded since it's the only green open right now. We don't want to take away from the types of TRs that are already being reported though. I think a good way to get more novice friendly reports is to encourage the novices on this forums to post their reports. Don't worry there are skiers/boarders of all abilities here, you won't be judged. Having TRs that are useful to novices will help grow the community, and even the sport, I think...
billski
Active member
everyone wins
I came into skiing during an era where resort marketing was king and full of BS. It was extremely difficult to get a straight honest answer on what the conditions actually were. Marketing issued their daily "reports" and they were loaded with misrepresntations. My network of skier friends was limited and it was expensive to reach them (phone calls were expensive.) The internet did not exist, and even 10 years later it was limited to slow, frail mailing lists that were often dated.
We went to great lengths to get at the truth. I used to call the resort at 4 or 5 am and hope a snow making or grooming staffer would answer. I'd call the store down the street. It was always hit or miss. When one arrived, conditions were never as "reported".
When internet arrived, we transcended into a nearly real-time reality reporting and the marketing departments slowly began to shape up seeing that their BS was being authoritatively refuted and published to the world within 24 hours. Now, with high speed internet, we've got pics and vids posted within hours. Resort web cams mysteriously develop "technical difficulties" when things get bad. So the truth is now US.
The essential question a trip report should answer is "how was it?"
Here is how a novice's report can help everyone:
1. Nobody's been there in a while (things change fast..)
2. We're deciding where to go and want go and need to check out the conditions from people who actually ran the slopes. Marketing tells us they "made snow last night" and it's groomed. What? Where? How good? Truth still varies.
3. We've already planned a trip and want to know more.
4. Marketing says they got 6" Truth or fiction?
5. Is it crowded?
6. Are they running any special deals? What's going on at the mt.
I came into skiing during an era where resort marketing was king and full of BS. It was extremely difficult to get a straight honest answer on what the conditions actually were. Marketing issued their daily "reports" and they were loaded with misrepresntations. My network of skier friends was limited and it was expensive to reach them (phone calls were expensive.) The internet did not exist, and even 10 years later it was limited to slow, frail mailing lists that were often dated.
We went to great lengths to get at the truth. I used to call the resort at 4 or 5 am and hope a snow making or grooming staffer would answer. I'd call the store down the street. It was always hit or miss. When one arrived, conditions were never as "reported".
When internet arrived, we transcended into a nearly real-time reality reporting and the marketing departments slowly began to shape up seeing that their BS was being authoritatively refuted and published to the world within 24 hours. Now, with high speed internet, we've got pics and vids posted within hours. Resort web cams mysteriously develop "technical difficulties" when things get bad. So the truth is now US.
The essential question a trip report should answer is "how was it?"
Here is how a novice's report can help everyone:
1. Nobody's been there in a while (things change fast..)
2. We're deciding where to go and want go and need to check out the conditions from people who actually ran the slopes. Marketing tells us they "made snow last night" and it's groomed. What? Where? How good? Truth still varies.
3. We've already planned a trip and want to know more.
4. Marketing says they got 6" Truth or fiction?
5. Is it crowded?
6. Are they running any special deals? What's going on at the mt.
Adn chek tehm for speeling mistakes.:beer:
hrstrat57
Member
I think this way too tho I would like Billski to elucidate further on his concerns and perhaps point to some specific examples that set him off recently....
(I really like bill's reports btw, his current BW is nice I further get the impression he is a real good skier from his reports)
However as you know I ski wa a lot, I'll be there couple times likely in the next few days. I assure you I will not take the twenty minutes required to ride the novice triple and give a tr on sundowner. My time on the mountain is too precious. I respect Zand in particular because he always takes the time to do this. I am not that dedicated to my internet reponsiblility.
Sorry, I really like the internet but posting a tr on the conditions of the bunny hill is out for me....I can comment on line length in the que, perhaps that would be appropriate.
(of course wa is pretty much a 100% bunny hill anyway but I like it)
billski
Active member
You got it. 100% on the mark.
billski
Active member
anywhere, anytime.
Hammer - I want to read your report from any resort at any level on any day. It helps us round out the skiing scene, compare resorts (i.e., was a bad day at resort x an anomoly or a trend?) If novice zones are suffering, (which is often bread and butter) it follows that the remainder of the area may also be suffering. A novice report is actually quite important. Looking at trail counts of 40% novice, 50% intermediate, 10% expert tells you something doesn't it? They don't come up with these proportions arbitrarily.
Good job.
Hammer - I want to read your report from any resort at any level on any day. It helps us round out the skiing scene, compare resorts (i.e., was a bad day at resort x an anomoly or a trend?) If novice zones are suffering, (which is often bread and butter) it follows that the remainder of the area may also be suffering. A novice report is actually quite important. Looking at trail counts of 40% novice, 50% intermediate, 10% expert tells you something doesn't it? They don't come up with these proportions arbitrarily.
Good job.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that, if they are then I don't agree. If someone wants to check out the bunny hill just to report it to the internet then more power to them, but it would be silly of us to request that...
I see it more of a report what you notice type of thing. That's not to say that all reports should be super detailed, sometimes you just don't have to time or whatever to put together a big report (I don't usually feel like it when I get home from the slopes
) . Just do what you can. We don't want to discourage people from posting because they think what they post won't be appreciated. It'll be appreciated no matter what skill level or how detailed it is... 
Uh yeah... right... you two start paying my salary and I'll consider it.
Uh yeah... right... you two start paying my salary and I'll consider it.
If you add a few more tools and trackers in your sig area someone is going to have to start cutting you a check. ;-)
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hrstrat57
Member
I don't think anyone is suggesting that, if they are then I don't agree. If someone wants to check out the bunny hill just to report it to the internet then more power to them, but it would be silly of us to request that...
I see it more of a report what you notice type of thing. That's not to say that all reports should be super detailed, sometimes you just don't have to time or whatever to put together a big report (I don't usually feel like it when I get home from the slopes
10-4 and thanks, I will endeavor to be more observant....
btw wa website is down....
somebody give me a tr?
anybody?
billski
Active member
Encouragement
Hrstrat, I decline to go down the slippery slope of specific examples. Not because I don't have them, but it generates a destructive discussion, where I want a constructive discussion, which this has happily generated. Examples descend to character assasination, flame fests and rat-holes which divert from the main issue. I'd rather than attempting to ask people to work towards a higher goal.
I stand by my statement that on the way up you can still glance down at the bunny hill under the lift and make a comment on it. Then again, your passion, your report. My initial suggestion is of course just that, you march to your own drummer.
I will offer however, that most internet board readers will vote with their feet quickly. If they don't find what they are looking for or the rancor in the group is not congruent to their interests, they will disappear in a flash. If the goal of this forum is to be inclusive, then it need to create that environment. The tone is set at the top by the moderators. You and I are just individual constributors. Encouragement is cheap and you only get one chance in this i-net world to grab new participants.
Hrstrat, I decline to go down the slippery slope of specific examples. Not because I don't have them, but it generates a destructive discussion, where I want a constructive discussion, which this has happily generated. Examples descend to character assasination, flame fests and rat-holes which divert from the main issue. I'd rather than attempting to ask people to work towards a higher goal.
I stand by my statement that on the way up you can still glance down at the bunny hill under the lift and make a comment on it. Then again, your passion, your report. My initial suggestion is of course just that, you march to your own drummer.
I will offer however, that most internet board readers will vote with their feet quickly. If they don't find what they are looking for or the rancor in the group is not congruent to their interests, they will disappear in a flash. If the goal of this forum is to be inclusive, then it need to create that environment. The tone is set at the top by the moderators. You and I are just individual constributors. Encouragement is cheap and you only get one chance in this i-net world to grab new participants.
hrstrat57
Member
Agree, fair enuff and great thread.....
pm me if you wanna hook up at wa some time....
we can tr together:beer:
cheers bill
I already overpay the guy...
No respect! I'm gonna take my toys and go play elsewhere... :roll:
billski
Active member
from the top
My intial comment was not directed at the moderators, moreso to the posters. The discussion has also revealed an area where forum moderating can encourage. You do a very very good job at moderating the forum. I do not concur that a reader's personality is the driving factor in electing to participate or not. The forum's tone comes from the top. Encouraging all skill levels to participate and repeating that message on a regular basis is essential. I stand by my remarks.
BTW, I was very careful in my initial comment not to suggest a change to the TR outline. I think the structure is just fine.
Keep up the good work. This is the best forum going. Let's make it better.
My intial comment was not directed at the moderators, moreso to the posters. The discussion has also revealed an area where forum moderating can encourage. You do a very very good job at moderating the forum. I do not concur that a reader's personality is the driving factor in electing to participate or not. The forum's tone comes from the top. Encouraging all skill levels to participate and repeating that message on a regular basis is essential. I stand by my remarks.
BTW, I was very careful in my initial comment not to suggest a change to the TR outline. I think the structure is just fine.
Keep up the good work. This is the best forum going. Let's make it better.
In the famous words of Ali G, respect! I was just peeping the the temps at Sundown.
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