Is 4WD/AWD a neccesity on your ski vehicle?

[SkiDork]

Geoff - I've often tought about not having 4WD at the exit of our condo when entering the access road making that right. I shudder when I think that.

 

[Talisman]

For me having a 4 x 4 makes getting to and from the mountain a sure thing. The rental house driveway doesn't get plowed until mid-morning and the town roads in Mt Holly may see some sand early but usually only Rt 103 sees the state plow. A 4 x 4 with snow/ice tires takes the guess work out of the hills and estimating stopping distances. My wife has an easier time being a passenger on the hauls north in storm conditions and while getting to the mounatins in the snow.

 

[campgottagopee]

Nope, but it sure is nice to have at times. However, if you ever come to visit me at my house then it is a MUST to get up my driveway. :roll:

 

[Philpug]

I would guess about 80 percent of the cars in the I-70 crash derby are SUV's or Subaru, yes Suburu.

And 96% of statistics are made up on the spot. So...80% are SUV's and Subarus, Yes Subarus...so 79 of those vehicles could have been SUV's and 1 was a Subaru?

I am really thinking about replacing my Subie with a Jetta TDi wagen. My past 4 ski mobiles were Subies but not being in love with the Forester and there is no new Legacy SW (even if there was one coming it is too big), I am thinking of leaving Subaru. I think the Jetta with 4 snows (a must) will do the job.

Good snows are more important that the type of drive.

 

[umby]

I had a 2000 Mercury Mountaineer with a V8 and AWD up until recently when I went down to a 2009 Subaru Outback Sport. I never had snow tires on the mountaineer and never had any real issues, but I am a very cautious driver in the snow. I also will admit that it sucked when trying to corner with any speed and going down hills could be sketchy.

I am going to get some snow tires for the Subaru because I hear the all seasons that come stock on my car suck in the snow (despite the car salesman saying "those tires are great in the snow, the are all seasons!"). I may also pick up a skid plate for my subaru to protect the underside from ice snowbanks and other stuff since the car is so much lower than my previous vehicle.

AWD/4WD may not be entirely necessary, but it makes me feel much safer knowing that I can get through most conditions. I would not want to get stuck in a bad storm with limited cell phone service late at night. The added ability of AWD or 4WD could be the difference of you getting to where you going and having to walk along a road at night to find help...

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Depends whether you know how to drive or not to drive in snow. For me, it really makes no difference with 4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive. I drive 89, 95, 93, and 90 alot in northern NE and I think 75% of the vehicles off the road in snowstorms are AWD/4WD, and alot of them are Trucks and oversized SUV's..........however this past winter I drove my 2WD ford fusion with low profile factory rims/tires and it was a little hairy at tiems, but still manageable. Normally I would get snow tires, but considering the car is leased I was not spending the money on 4 tires that I would never use again after two winters.

 

[severine]

There's a real deja vu to this discussion...must be a glitch in the Matrix...

So save them the trouble of looking it up, post the link, and let the mods know so they can merge.

I do have to say that if we never allowed new discussions of things that have been discussed before, however, we would run out of things to discuss.

 

[mister moose]

Geoff - I've often tought about not having 4WD at the exit of our condo when entering the access road making that right. I shudder when I think that.

You just need to change your thinking/planning. If conditions are marginal traction (regardless of what vehicle you're in) approach the intersection slowly, but keep momentum, like 5-7 mph. Watch the left, and as the sight lines come in, decide if it's clear to go for it. If it's clear, add a little power but not enough to spin the wheels, do not stop at the intersection, and keep the momentum going on the uphill turn. If it's not clear, stop (easy from 5mph on the slight uphill grade there), back up, and try again. There are many places in the winter where you won't be able to start up from a dead stop. The answer is to drive and plan so you don't stop there. This is also why you should never be right on someone's butt in the snow, especially when going up an incline, or at an intersection. He might need to back up to get going again.

I think the advent of the popularity of SUV and AWD sedans has caused many people to just ride on all seasons year round. Then they think that 2WD or FWD would be inadequate, since there are days when they slip slide around in 4WD. "How could I ever drive a 2WD car in this?" Pre SUV, we all bought snow tires, at least in far geater numbers. Studs were more common as well. We had several rear wheel drive wagons growing up that had studs for the winter.

A FrontWD car with good snow tires is all you need 99.9% of the time.

 

[SkiDork]

You just need to change your thinking/planning. If conditions are marginal traction (regardless of what vehicle you're in) approach the intersection slowly, but keep momentum, like 5-7 mph. Watch the left, and as the sight lines come in, decide if it's clear to go for it. If it's clear, add a little power but not enough to spin the wheels, do not stop at the intersection, and keep the momentum going on the uphill turn. If it's not clear, stop (easy from 5mph on the slight uphill grade there), back up, and try again. There are many places in the winter where you won't be able to start up from a dead stop. The answer is to drive and plan so you don't stop there. This is also why you should never be right on someone's butt in the snow, especially when going up an incline, or at an intersection. He might need to back up to get going again.

I think the advent of the popularity of SUV and AWD sedans has caused many people to just ride on all seasons year round. Then they think that 2WD or FWD would be inadequate, since there are days when they slip slide around in 4WD. "How could I ever drive a 2WD car in this?" Pre SUV, we all bought snow tires, at least in far geater numbers. Studs were more common as well. We had several rear wheel drive wagons growing up that had studs for the winter.

A FrontWD car with good snow tires is all you need 99.9% of the time.

I'm actually a fine snow driver, been doing it for years. Got plenty of practice doing donuts in parking lots as a teenager ;-)

What you describe in that location is virtually impossible. Here's the problem: (more of a problem when there's a fair amount of snow in the driveway and even worse when the access road is poorly plowed)

1) Normally a large snowbank that blocks the view of the traffic coming up the access road unless you poke your nose out to the edge of the driveway. Additionally, its an uphill driveway, then turning right onto the uphill access road.

2) Once you get to the "take a peek" location, 9 times out of 10 you have to stop and wait for 10 or 20 cars to pass until you get a chance to go. Inching out further before its clear is highly discourteous to the up-access road traffic

3) When there's an opening, its many times a "small" opening, requiring your vehicle to be able to get out into the road smartly with little delay, otherwise you're being a jackass to the next line of cars coming up behind you.

I imagine this sort of scenario plays out in many areas of the access road, and at other ski areas as well. The bottom line is, with the 4WD I never really have much of a problem. Without it, the whole operation becomes just that much more difficult. Not impossible but difficult.

edit: I have 4 Nokain Hakkapalitas on it, as recommended by Geoff. That helps too.

 

[tarponhead]

Do you guys with the snows get them mounted on their own dedicated rim or do you swap out the rims from your regular tires?

 

[SkiDork]

Do you guys with the snows get them mounted on their own dedicated rim or do you swap out the rims from your regular tires?

I got some cheap steel rims online and have the snows mounted on them ($75 each for 4). The disadvantage if that is they're starting to rust a bit in spots so they look a little crappy, plus I lost my tire pressure sensors so the panel always says "check tire pressure" for the entire winter. Advantage is they're easy to swap, although I do have the shop that sold the tires to me do it (for free).

 

[midd]

I split the difference and had Nokian WR G2's mounted on my 2005 accord last winter. drove route 16 through a few storms without a hitch.

work a 1.8 miles from home, and generally take the bus, so I'm hardly racking miles up on them. plus it helps ensure the weekly trips all winter from Southie to Conway occur without a hitch.

 

[WWF-VT]

Do you guys with the snows get them mounted on their own dedicated rim or do you swap out the rims from your regular tires?

I swap the tires on my regular rims. Direct Tire in Boston area offers free change over service.

 

[mondeo]

Do you guys with the snows get them mounted on their own dedicated rim or do you swap out the rims from your regular tires?

Dedicated rim, avoids paying for the swap twice a year. Depending on the vehicle, it may also allow you to go to smaller wheels, which offsets the cost of the wheel with a cheaper tire and also a narrower tire, better for snow.

You people are missing the entire fun part of the equation. 0-60 in under 10 seconds, on snow. Then there's the drifting, and general hooliganism possible when all wheels are driven.

 

[mister moose]

I'm actually a fine snow driver, been doing it for years. Got plenty of practice doing donuts in parking lots as a teenager ;-)

What you describe in that location is virtually impossible. Here's the problem: (more of a problem when there's a fair amount of snow in the driveway and even worse when the access road is poorly plowed)

1) Normally a large snowbank that blocks the view of the traffic coming up the access road unless you poke your nose out to the edge of the driveway. Additionally, its an uphill driveway, then turning right onto the uphill access road.

2) Once you get to the "take a peek" location, 9 times out of 10 you have to stop and wait for 10 or 20 cars to pass until you get a chance to go. Inching out further before its clear is highly discourteous to the up-access road traffic

3) When there's an opening, its many times a "small" opening, requiring your vehicle to be able to get out into the road smartly with little delay, otherwise you're being a jackass to the next line of cars coming up behind you.

I imagine this sort of scenario plays out in many areas of the access road, and at other ski areas as well. The bottom line is, with the 4WD I never really have much of a problem. Without it, the whole operation becomes just that much more difficult. Not impossible but difficult.

edit: I have 4 Nokain Hakkapalitas on it, as recommended by Geoff. That helps too.

Right. I know the layout. In high traffic locations, you're very screwed in uphill starts from a blind spot. One thing you can do then is post a lookout who will give you the high sign on when you can go (and keep going). Another is turn onto the shoulder (if it isn't too deep) and merge later. On snowy days everyone is in single file on that 3-4 lane road, and there's usually room on the right. Or turn downhill, go to a flatter portion of the access road, or one with a slight downhill entance (like the Basin parking lot) and re-enter going uphill there. There are always options.

I would think most drivers when conditions are slippery wouldn't think someone is a jackass making a rolling stop on a up-hill turn, and would let you in with no ill thoughts.(I'm talking about spacing where he is forced to slow down, not so close as too force him into a skid) On snowy days, there is noticably less traffic, so its less of an issue.

So yes, if you're running late, are alone, the sightlines suck and there is a 14" winrow of snow at the end of the driveway, 4WD is a wonderful thing.

The point I'm making is not that 4WD doesn't come in handy on occasions. It does. But FWD is still manageable, and there are solutions to most driving problems so you can still own a FWD car if you prefer it the rest of the year.

 

[Talisman]

Do you guys with the snows get them mounted on their own dedicated rim or do you swap out the rims from your regular tires?

Dedicated steel rims. It really makes swapping out the snow/ice tires for the all season tires easy in my garage. Snow & Ice tires have a soft compaund that wears quickly in warmer temperatures.

 

[millerm277]

With snow tires, in normal wintry weather, I'm fine even with my RWD car (normal wintry weather meaning: not a storm, but snow on the ground, and potentially less than 2-3" on the road). In a storm, the 4WD does come in handy though, especially in some of the examples given (top of a sloped driveway waiting to pull out into traffic).

So, personal opinion is: If you're someone who wants to be able to drive in the snow, the 4WD/AWD does have a definite advantage over the FWD vehicles.

 

[mister moose]

Do you guys with the snows get them mounted on their own dedicated rim or do you swap out the rims from your regular tires?

Since steel rims rust, I like to find cheap aluminum rims on ebay, then have dedicated snows. Change em over myself. Good time to look at the brake pads twice a year. You do need the storage space for the off season tires though.

 

[campgottagopee]

Since steel rims rust, I like to find cheap aluminum rims on ebay, then have dedicated snows. Change em over myself. Good time to look at the brake pads twice a year. You do need the storage space for the off season tires though.

By the time steel rims rust to the point of not holding air I think you'd be on to a new car anyways.

 

[4aprice]

Currently I own a Dodge Durango with most of the bells and whistles. It's the family car and was bought for two major reasons. It is not used very much for commutting (wife will take in a snow storm) but we have had use for the four wheel drive up at the Pocono house where the plowing can be sketchy. Its also a pleasure to take on long trips to N New England with the DVD for those in the rear and a good stereo system. The real reason we have it is for towing the boat. My rig (boat and trailer ) are approx 4700 pounds. If not for the boat I would probably drive something like the Subaru Outback.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ