Is 4WD/AWD a neccesity on your ski vehicle?

[HD333]

4wd/AWD a neccesity, no. But it sure helps to get things moving when your not plowed out.

Our place in NH has a real steep driveway and plowing is suspect. For years we were Saab and snow tire fans, until one morning we got stuck going up the driveway and missed a 1/2 day of Pow. Since then we have always has an ADW/4wd vehicle in the family. We actually bought a jeep the week after we got stuck to compliment the 9-3.

I curently drive around in a Saab with Blizzaks in the winter and I feel extremely confident in it, no clearence through. Wife's ride is an XC-90 and that thing is like a tank and gets us going before the plow if need be, just takes a while to stop because it is so dam heavy.

 

[kcyanks1]

Last season I rented a standard economy car and couldn't get over the Appalachian Gap on my way to MRG, only a little snow on the ground (wasn't expecting snow, otherwise I may have rented an SUV or something). Now, the car did not have snow tires. I also can't remember whether it was front or real-wheel drive. So there were other issues than simply a lack of 4-wheel drive, but any bit probably would've helped. Thankfully I kind stranger drove us over the last bit of the Gap. We left the car in a little alcove, parking area off the side of the road. Then we got a ride back at the end of the day.

I wasn't the only car having trouble, but not sure how the others were equipped.

 

[mondeo]

I will admit I *may* not have read this whole thread. I should have been more specific, I was talking about the title of the thread. People obsess a lot over tires and the number of drive wheels when buying a car, but I so very rarely see ground clearance brought up as a deciding factor... one way or the other. Maybe because the camps are so polarized and entrenched regarding SUV's/trucks.

Definately an issue, I went into a ditch once in my old (new) Cougar because there was more snow on the road than I had ground clearance. Hard to keep control when the weight of the car isn't on the wheels.

But the trade for ground clearance is a lot steeper than AWD or snows. Call it a couple grand for AWD and a grand for snows, but you also get the benefit of superior handling characteristics (relative to FWD) and the ability to go with summer tires as well; the only downside is cost (up front, gas mileage and maintenance for AWD.) Ground clearance at least means sacrificing handling due to the higher Cg that automatically goes along with it, plus the fact that ground clearance changes largely along the type of car one buys.

 

[Glenn]

I will admit I *may* not have read this whole thread. I should have been more specific, I was talking about the title of the thread. People obsess a lot over tires and the number of drive wheels when buying a car, but I so very rarely see ground clearance brought up as a deciding factor... one way or the other. Maybe because the camps are so polarized and entrenched regarding SUV's/trucks.

Under carraige protection is a good thing to have as well. My Jeep has a fairly beefy OEM t-case skid on it. I'll attest to the beefiness after hitting my head on it last weekend whilst performing a fluid and filter change on the ol' slushbox. "Oowww! Fawk! Am I bleeding?" It's ain't a project without swears and blood. I later cut my finger while changing the sparkplugs...covered all the bases. Oh, and I got coolant in my hair. Whee!

 

[bigbog]

...on MY vehicle...have to say Yes. I do a lot of off-road with need for clearance as well. Here 4WD helps a lot when in somewhat-deep muck and where culverts get washed out quite often in the Springtime...but it's not a dire necessity on pavement...as others have undoubtedly pointed out.. Main issue is getting aggressive tread underneath weight of vehicles small and big...but the front axle doing the pulling helps a lot. Amazing how people, when inside an SUV, think that the laws of physics change...

 

[Geoff]

Kind of funny ground clearance never comes up in these discussions.

New England doesn't get enough snow for ground clearance to be an issue for most people. They drive on major plowed roads on their trip up from the flatlands. Ski towns understand snow removal. It's really more about getting in and out of your parking spot in north country. If your plowing sucks, 4wd and ground clearance are preferable to a half hour with a snow shovel on a powder day.

Ground clearance matters during mud month way more than midwinter. There are years where I wouldn't want to do my condo driveway without 4wd, some ground clearance, and a skid plate. There are certainly days where the ski area parking lot is a mud bog.

 

[catsup948]

For many years I drove my 1996 Corolla to the mountains. With all season tires I only got stuck a few times. Careful driving and the stick shift helped keep me out of trouble.

I currently drive a 2003 Outback. Got rid of the stock tires and put on some decent all seasons car is a total beast in the snow and ice. Makes trips to the mountains in storms easier and less scary for sure.

 

[Geoff]

For many years I drove my 1996 Corolla to the mountains. With all season tires I only got stuck a few times. Careful driving and the stick shift helped keep me out of trouble.

I currently drive a 2003 Outback. Got rid of the stock tires and put on some decent all seasons car is a total beast in the snow and ice. Makes trips to the mountains in storms easier and less scary for sure.

The recurring theme here is that FWD with stock tires works OK most of the time if you have good snow driving skills. In college back in the 2nd half of the 1970's, I was in Burlington, VT with a RWD Ford Maverick that had Sears Guardsman summer radials. I had no problem getting around though I had to do some creative driving from time to time coming up the hill from the bars when I hit a stop light. Hill starts were out of the question. The car had 3-on-the-tree. If you went fast uphill and crawled going down hills using the engine and transmission to control your speed, you had plenty of control.

The only time I ever got stuck in the car was screwing around in the Smuggs parking lot as they were digging it out with a bucket loader. I was following a path cleared by the bucket loader that ended. I tried to power up & over the snowbank to the parallel clear lane and got lodged in the snow. The bucket loader driver just drove up to the tail of my car and pushed me out with the bucket. A real touron move.

I also had a 1981 turbo Mustang with performance tires. I used to have to put it in 2nd gear, get out, and push it to get it rolling on flat parking lot. It was basically the same platform as the Maverick but with a little more horsepower. In comparison, a VW GTI with Blizzak WS-60's or Nokian Hakkas is a real snow machine.

 

[SkiDork]

Maverick!

 

[Philpug]

Maverick!

 

[billski]

Amazing how people, when inside an SUV, think that the laws of physics change...

That's because the higher off the ground you are, the further you are from reality! :dunce:

 

[mondeo]

Maverick!

Maverick!

 

[Philpug]

That's because the higher off the ground you are, the further you are from reality! :dunce:

It' that thin air.

 

[billski]

Maverick!

Drove my parent's Maverik in college, till some dope coming at me tried to stop on ice and totaled my wheels. Never saw a Maverick with no rust. My door panels doubled as wings!

 

[billski]

Kind of funny ground clearance never comes up in these discussions.

It is indicative of the nature of the driving done by the folks on this forum. After all, this isn't monster truck forum! :-?

Lift-served ski resorts, which most of us frequent do a damn good job of making sure their lots and their town are well taken care of, after all it is their winter livelihood. So too do the hotels and motels. Now for flatlanders like us who have day jobs, live close to highways and live in the burbs, the towns are fairly well plowed out, and we don't live on the 20-acre lot with a quarter-mile-long driveway. It also doesn't seem that there is a lot of off-roading done here, regardless the season.

As far as highway snow plowing goes, I've seen a lot of changes since the 60s. People demand more these days and the crews are out all night long. That wasn't always the case.

I'm not as hip on driving in storms as I once was. I'm getting older and would rather save that energy for the slopes. I'm finding myself getting up there before the storm hits, to get as many hours on the slope as possible. By day's end, everything is pretty clear, even if it's still snowing.

I also have a flexible enough schedule that I can time my travel depending on the snow and the inevitable flatlander panic that sets in when they all realize at once they need milk and bread

From my perspective, anything is better than rear wheel drive, even with snows. It's all relative: we used to drive the old Galaxy 500 through the unplowed snow with zero clearance, often acting as our own snowplow. Sounds fun, but it was not.

Lastly, the winter storms are not near as frequent, large or as troublesome as they once were. At least compared to where I used to live. Nothing is more dreadful than lake effect snow with sustained winds. Warp, care to comment?

 

[mondeo]

Lastly, the winter storms are not near as frequent, large or as troublesome as they once were. At least compared to where I used to live. Nothing is more dreadful than lake effect snow with sustained winds. Warp, care to comment?

WNY has much bigger storms than Canton/Potsdam. That part of St. Lawrence County is far enough away from Lake Ontario that you don't get the lake effect. Well, at least Potsdam was, Canton's 11 miles closer so it may be different there. Some of the worst snow I've driven in was between Syracuse and Watertown, maybe 50 feet of visiblity, crawling along I-81 at 20mph trusting the guy in front of you not to go off the road. Cleared up before I got to the next exit, only time I really thought about pulling over to let a storm pass.

It's just freakin' cold up there.

 

[billski]

WNY has much bigger storms than Canton/Potsdam. That part of St. Lawrence County is far enough away from Lake Ontario that you don't get the lake effect. Well, at least Potsdam was, Canton's 11 miles closer so it may be different there. Some of the worst snow I've driven in was between Syracuse and Watertown, maybe 50 feet of visiblity, crawling along I-81 at 20mph trusting the guy in front of you not to go off the road. Cleared up before I got to the next exit, only time I really thought about pulling over to let a storm pass.

It's just freakin' cold up there.

I lived in NNY from 1955 to 65, then in WNY from 65 to 79.
NNY was simply cold with lots of snow.
WNY, especially if you were within 10 miles of Lakes Erie or Ontario was less cold, but it was gray from Sept. to May, and it would incessantly snow nearly every day. It is the wind, as mondeo says that is the really killer. "Whiteouts" are the scariest thing going. I'd much rather drive on 12" of new-fallen than on wind that whips, gusts and creates concrete drifts in the road that can become impassible. The county roads have no side markers, it is easy to go off into the ditch - I did it a lot. It wasn't like a plunge or anything, your vehicle would just get slower and slower and finally stall out. It was only when you got out and walked around that you could see where you were. I really disliked living there.

They have to bring in front end loaders to clear the drifts - the bladed plows don't cut it if they get behind. Still does, my sisters and other relatives live there and I get out there now and then but hear the stories on the phone all the time.

The temps in New England are not much different than in WNY. The difference is that the sun comes out in the winter in New England.

 

[billski]

WNY has much bigger storms than Canton/Potsdam. That part of St. Lawrence County is far enough away from Lake Ontario that you don't get the lake effect. Well, at least Potsdam was, Canton's 11 miles closer so it may be different there. Some of the worst snow I've driven in was between Syracuse and Watertown, maybe 50 feet of visiblity, crawling along I-81 at 20mph trusting the guy in front of you not to go off the road. Cleared up before I got to the next exit, only time I really thought about pulling over to let a storm pass.

It's just freakin' cold up there.

I lived in NNY from 1955 to 65, then in WNY from 65 to 79.
NNY was simply cold with lots of snow.
WNY, especially if you were within 10 miles of Lakes Erie or Ontario was less cold, but it was gray from Sept. to May, and it would incessantly snow nearly every day. It is the wind, as mondeo says that is the really killer. "Whiteouts" are the scariest thing going. I'd much rather drive on 12" of new-fallen than on wind that whips, gusts and creates concrete drifts in the road that can become impassible. The county roads have no side markers, it is easy to go off into the ditch - I did it a lot. It wasn't like a plunge or anything, your vehicle would just get slower and slower and finally stall out. It was only when you got out and walked around that you could see where you were. I really disliked living there.

They have to bring in front end loaders to clear the drifts - the bladed plows don't cut it if they get behind. Still does, my sisters and other relatives live there and I get out there now and then but hear the stories on the phone all the time.

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

I'd take a FWD with snows over a AWD with stock tires any day of the week....keep in mind that most AWD are really FWD cars that will send some power to the rear slipping wheel if needed....the only true AWD are Audi and Subi (my volvo xc70 is pseudo awd)

A buddy of mine lives in the mtns of Austria, drives a RWD BMW with snows and stick shift...swears by it, says he has more control with the stick (power) ...... IMOP, AWD and 4x4 is marketing, hype and fear branded into us by the advertizers...

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

tires are the key...would you run a marathon in flip flops?