KILLINGTON: "...1 strike! .....Ski/ride closed trail = losing pass!"

[loafer89]

I think that the new policy at Killington is perfectly acceptable, why should one be on a trail that has been closed by patrol. More than likely it was done to ensure your safety on the mountain. I have never skied a roped off trail in 25 years of skiing and I do not intend to start either.

ASC did a VERY poor job of enforcing the closed trail policy at Sugarloaf and poaching was ongoing sometimes right under a lift or in view of ski patrol. It shows a lack of respect for the ski patrol at the very least and at the worst people get injured skiing over ice, rock, stumps etc.

This is a sue happy world and the last thing that ski resorts need is higher liability insurance because they might allow activity that increases their insurance risk.

 

[snoseek]

who cares? tuck your pass away and tell em you hiked or better yet just jumped on the lift. should work considering killington has lots of hiking trails.

 

[Newpylong]

More useless Highway Star carryover from Killingtonzone. Go away.

 

[SpinmasterK]

From over on K-ZONE:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17752&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45



Sounds a little overkill to me.

What if a power tripping ski patroller decides to pull your pass for whatever absurd reason?

Jiminy Peak North, Park City East.

The NEW Killington does not sound like the happiest place on earth....yikes.

Actually, industry norm is one strike and you're out!
We're not here to single HS out, but simply enforce the rules so we don't jeopardize our guest's safety or put our employees at risk in rescuing someone on a closed trail. Remember, not everyone is as good a skier as HS! If Joe Schmuck sees HS skiing down a closed trail, he may want to try it as well. And there in lies the risk!
Remember, the rules have not changed!

KNOW THE CODE. IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

• Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
• People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
• You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.
• Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
• Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
• Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
• Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.

 

[awf170]

Not quite dude.....they are burying it in a unrelated message board thread.

I'm the one TELLING PEOPLE STRAIGHT UP.......!

Don't you think they should post a zero tolerance policy on the skier's responsablity code on their pass FAQ PAGE, if that is indeed the case????

I agree that burying this in a message board is pretty unfair. It is their mountain they can do what they want with it, but if you're are going to have a strict policy on poaching at least make it very obvious. Who knows, maybe they will put it on their website soon, so it's probably a bit early to judge.


Also what gives? This is damn good topic of discussion that Highway Star found. I find it pretty stupid that everyone just gets on the other side of the argument just because it is Highway Star. Seriously, it's just dumb.

 

[threecy]

I agree that burying this is a message board is pretty unfair.

Back of lift ticket, on most trail maps, and usually posted at ticket windows.

 

[andyzee]

Also what gives? This is damn good topic of discussion that Highway Star found.

Yeah, took me by suprise!

 

[Highway Star]

Actually, industry norm is one strike and you're out!
We're not here to single HS out, but simply enforce the rules so we don't jeopardize our guest's safety or put our employees at risk in rescuing someone on a closed trail. Remember, not everyone is as good a skier as HS! If Joe Schmuck sees HS skiing down a closed trail, he may want to try it as well. And there in lies the risk!
Remember, the rules have not changed!

KNOW THE CODE. IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

• Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
• People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
• You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.
• Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
• Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
• Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
• Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.

HI TOM!!!!!

EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THAT I AND TOM HAVE A LONG STANDING REALTIONSHIP. WE HAVE EVEN MET IN PERSON!





INDUSTRY NORM?




CAN ANYONE TELL ME OF A SINGLE SKI AREA IN THE EAST THAT WILL PERMANENTLY REVOKE A SEASON PASS FOR A SINGLE VIOLATION OF THE ABOVE CODE?




WHAT SORT OF VIOLATION WOULD THAT BE?
HOW SERIOUS OF A VIOLATION?




YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB TOM!

 

[Highway Star]

Jimney has never been as crazy for me as you make it seem. The one time I was caught poaching there was on Upper liftline About 5 mins. after they had closed it for the night skiing. No lights on the trail but it was only like 4 or so. We poached, and were seen by patrol who was waiting at the bottom of the trail. Got a quick talk from patrol there who them told us we needed to go down to security and he would follow us there. He didnt "escort" us even took a different trail down and showed up at the base 30-45 secs. after us. He was shocked that we didnt try to run and walked us down to security were we got another talk and let go with our tickets still on our jackets.

That doesnt sound to bad to me......

Dude, seriously? That's classic Jiminy right there. Total BS entrapment.

It's amazing that he would even consider wasting his time to take you down to security. Why doesn't he just say - hey guys, stay off that when we close it next time....or not close it until is gets dark. You're skiing in a group. Sheesh.

I ski stuff at Stowe, solo, that is totally un-trafficed and thousands of feet away from anyone that could help. That's dangerous, and I know it.

 

[millerm277]

HS, I'll speak for everyone, and say:

Shut Up. Thanks.


Yes, almost everyone has poached before. It is potentially dangerous, but most people are willing to take responsiblity for themselves, and we know it is banned in pretty much every single ski resort out there.

The difference is, everyone else doesn't bitch about it. By saying one strike, they allow the ski patrollers to decide if you are let go or get your pass pulled. Otherwise, they would have to let some obnoxious out of control person poach two more times before losing their pass.

Killington isn't likely to try to trap you, and unless you're doing something incredibly obvious/dangerous, you aren't going to have a problem.

Your bitching and moaning is most likely only reinforcing their decision because you're basically saying you're going to poach either way, and you want to not have to worry about getting caught the first two times.

Also, I'm fairly certain that insurance probably requires them to have policies of that nature.

 

[Highway Star]

The difference is, everyone else doesn't bitch about it. By saying one strike, they allow the ski patrollers to decide if you are let go or get your pass pulled. Otherwise, they would have to let some obnoxious out of control person poach two more times before losing their pass.

Killington isn't likely to try to trap you, and unless you're doing something incredibly obvious/dangerous, you aren't going to have a problem.

Just you wait man. Go try poaching at the NEW Killington......patroller with a sled at the bottom....done for the season. Sounds pretty zero tolerance to me.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Just you wait man. Go try poaching at the NEW Killington......patroller with a sled at the bottom....done for the season. Sounds pretty zero tolerance to me.

And that is why they are telling you.......:blink:

 

[threecy]

Just you wait man. Go try poaching at the NEW Killington......patroller with a sled at the bottom....done for the season. Sounds pretty zero tolerance to me.

Sounds pretty simple to me - obey the rules or don't ski there.

 

[Highway Star]

Sounds pretty simple to me - obey the rules or don't ski there.

OBEY!

 

[2knees]

I think its a little ridiculous if they actually do it. Yanking a season pass for the first offense of poaching a closed trail is harsh, in my opinion. How many times have you skied at an area only to see a perfectly covered trail closed? Last year at magic, redline was closed two days after a 20" storm. Why? Cause they wanted to save it for the weekend crowd. We poached it, and it's as high profile as it can get. Right under the red lift obviously. Patroller was riding up and yelled at us. A run or two later, they were sitting at the loading station and said the next run down redline is your last run of the day. Even places like Magic get militant at times. Its the chance you take.

 

[Greg]

Last year at magic, redline was closed two days after a 20" storm. Why? Cause they wanted to save it for the weekend crowd. We poached it, and it's as high profile as it can get.

Yeah, but the coverage was a bit sketchy, remember?

:roll:

How's that for some jones...

 

[thetrailboss]

OBEY!

My feelings really have not changed. When you choose to purchase a lift ticket or season pass at a ski area, you enter into an agreement. There is risk assumed on both sides of the deal. The ski area(s) have adopted a code of conduct that skiers and snowboarders have to follow. We've discussed it here before. Some pretty standard rules...most relevant is the rule "don't ski closed trails or areas."

These rules are pretty much something that people self-patrol, and ski patrol intervenes when things get to a certain level.

As for Killington, they are within their rights to enforce these rules as they wish for their paying customers. If you watch the WCAX news or read the Rutland Herald for a ski season, you can see why they have to be this strict. Every winter we hear about skiers and riders who enter signed/closed terrain and are not familiar with the area, not prepared for the elements, and become lost. They risk other people's lives to be rescued. They cost taxpayers and the ski area thousands of dollars. When they come out, if they come out alive, they stumble away, thank their rescuers and never come back. Vermont has a law that allows rescue agencies to send that bill to skiers and riders who make such bad decisions and access terrain from ski areas and need rescue.

Now some folks here are saying, "I know the place, I can handle it." These folks aren't the ones that this rule is going after. There are other folks who share Austin's view, and that is, "I hike into the area, and I am prepared." These folks are not the problem either.

This strict rule is for the average Joe or Jane who buys a lift ticket, enters into a service contract with the mountain, and does not follow the rules, and gets into trouble. While these individuals may realize their error and not make it again, regrettably, if they don't come out of it alive or are hurt, they or their families or friends use hindsight and refuse to accept the fact that what "x" did was against the rules and dumb. They can't accept reality. So they try to sue the ski area. Just filing a suit costs the resort $$$ to defend. It increases insurance and drives up cost.

A few years back we discussed a man who skied a trail at a Vermont resort after it had been closed and swept by patrol for the day. He rounded a corner, lost control, and went headfirst into a tree. Patrol reported this to the local media, it was reported here. Someone from the family challenged these reports, saying that "Y was a great skier and would never ski a closed trail." This was researched and in fact Y did ski a closed trail, but the family could not accept that the tragedy was the result of Y's negligence, not the ski area.

So what happens? Ski areas have to enforce the rules in this way to deter folks. It is what it is. How do we reverse it? Encourage better manners, make sure that when folks watch Warren Miller and Meatheads that those depicted in films are professional, trained athletes who know the area, and make sure that folks stop making poor choices which they are unprepared for and that they accept the consequences of their decisions. If you don't like this rule, don't buy a lift ticket, don't enter into that contract with the ski area, earn your own turns and assume the entire risk yourself.

 

[Greg]

If you don't like this rule, don't buy a lift ticket, don't enter into that contract with the ski area, earn your own turns and assume the entire risk yourself.

Or break the rule and be willing to suffer the consequences; either injury or worse; or getting caught and penalized. Pretty simple, really.

 

[thetrailboss]

Or break the rule and be willing to suffer the consequences; either injury or worse; or getting caught and penalized. Pretty simple, really.

Yep. You boiled my treatise down to the simple message :wink:

 

[threecy]

I think its a little ridiculous if they actually do it. Yanking a season pass for the first offense of poaching a closed trail is harsh, in my opinion.

You have to be strict about it - if someone gets hurt skiing a closed trail, they can still sue the ski area - odds are the lawsuit will be thrown out, but nonetheless it still costs money to get the case dismissed.

Another issue - though not one at Killington - is snowmaking. Fan guns require power. As a result, if a carriage gun is on the trail, there likely is a power cord hooked up...sometimes these can be hidden under a layer of pixie dust. Ski edge cutting into a power cord hooked up to high voltage power = Kentucky Fried Skier.