KILLINGTON: "...1 strike! .....Ski/ride closed trail = losing pass!"

[2knees]

You have to be strict about it - if someone gets hurt skiing a closed trail, they can still sue the ski area - odds are the lawsuit will be thrown out, but nonetheless it still costs money to get the case dismissed.

Another issue - though not one at Killington - is snowmaking. Fan guns require power. As a result, if a carriage gun is on the trail, there likely is a power cord hooked up...sometimes these can be hidden under a layer of pixie dust. Ski edge cutting into a power cord hooked up to high voltage power = Kentucky Fried Skier.

I know there are always going to be circumstances that may change the situation. I'm just saying that IF they pull passes on every poach, i think thats harsh. All i say is that it, unofficially, should be on a case by case basis. Which is what it may very well end up being. Obviously, they arent gonna go on the internet and say, hey guys ski closed trails, we dont care.

 

[wa-loaf]

Another issue - though not one at Killington - is snowmaking. Fan guns require power. As a result, if a carriage gun is on the trail, there likely is a power cord hooked up...sometimes these can be hidden under a layer of pixie dust. Ski edge cutting into a power cord hooked up to high voltage power = Kentucky Fried Skier.

Aren't these things hardwired? Likley through conduit at the edge of the trail if not buried. You make it sound like someone is running around the mountain with extension cords to keep the snow flying? :blink:

 

[loafer89]

You have to be strict about it - if someone gets hurt skiing a closed trail, they can still sue the ski area - odds are the lawsuit will be thrown out, but nonetheless it still costs money to get the case dismissed.

Another issue - though not one at Killington - is snowmaking. Fan guns require power. As a result, if a carriage gun is on the trail, there likely is a power cord hooked up...sometimes these can be hidden under a layer of pixie dust. Ski edge cutting into a power cord hooked up to high voltage power = Kentucky Fried Skier.

I have also seen the damage that a ski edge can do to a snowmaking hose, when they slice into it by skiing over it and create a nice version of Old Faithful. I would imagine that those high pressure hoses are expensive to replace.

 

[thetrailboss]

Aren't these things hardwired? Likley through conduit at the edge of the trail if not buried. You make it sound like someone is running around the mountain with extension cords to keep the snow flying? :blink:

Some resorts, like MRG and BEast for example, use the models that are portable and stationed on sleds/wheels and need to be plugged into power on the side of the trail.

But you're right...there are more expensive models that are permanently fixed on the side of the trails and those are hardwired.

 

[andyzee]

Or break the rule and be willing to suffer the consequences; either injury or worse; or getting caught and penalized. Pretty simple, really.

Really, it's not that simple. Taken from KZone:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15437&highlight=closed+trails

Yes, you can just walk away. But we can also follow you to the chairlift where you will have to show a valid pass or ticket to ride. Then, we'll just grab your information from the scanner, go into the lodge and restrict you ticket or pass. Then you'd be done for at least the rest of the day, or if you're a pass holder, maybe longer!

So, if you get caught skiing a closed trail. Simply refuse to give up your pass and go home.

On the subject of skiing closed trails being dangerous. Well, I've skied closed trails that were in far better shape than open ones. As a matter of fact there were times were sking open trails was downright dangerous with rocks and ice coming through.

 

[threecy]

But you're right...there are more expensive models that are permanently fixed on the side of the trails and those are hardwired.

Actually, they're the same price or, in some instances, more expensive (land guns). The SMI Wizzard land guns, for instance, are more complex machines than SMI Polecats (that isn't to say Wizzards aren't sometimes tower mounted or that Polecats are exclusively tower mounted).

There are very few all-fan-gun ski areas that *don't* have land guns. Land guns are not hardwired. Often times when a trail is closed due to snowmaking with land guns, it's because the guns are pulled out in the center of the trail - and thus, there will be an wire across half the trail.

 

[David Metsky]

Funny thing is, it is state land. If I'm not mistaken, and I very well my be, you can hike up with no problem and ski down, they can't stop you. Also, if you ski on a closed trail and you don't give up your pass, they can't do anything to force you to give it up. Best they can do is prevent you from getting on their lift. So, if you don't give up your pass upon request, how enforcable is this rule?

This is simply not true. The agreement between the ski area and the National Forest (it's not often state land) dictates what they can and cannot enforce. In many cases they have exclusive rights to the land, and if you don't buy a ticket you can be escorted off. Not all ski areas choose to enforce this, but many have the option. Some are friendly to hikers, some are very much against them.

As to the OP, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

[threecy]

It should also be noted that if the new carriage lift tower catches on, you'll see a lot more carriage mounted fan guns vs. tower mounted.

 

[wa-loaf]

Some resorts, like MRG and BEast for example, use the models that are portable and stationed on sleds/wheels and need to be plugged into power on the side of the trail.

Ah right, like the ones they move around base areas. I imagine the cords are pretty tough, but if they take enough hits in the same spot (although the odds must be pretty low on this) you could be in for a shock.

 

[threecy]

Ah right, like the ones they move around base areas. I imagine the cords are pretty tough, but if they take enough hits in the same spot (although the odds must be pretty low on this) you could be in for a shock.

The cords are certainly industrial strength, however I've seen the way some people sharpen their edges - a few centimeters of rubber won't put up much of a fight!

 

[kcyanks1]

I think its a little ridiculous if they actually do it. Yanking a season pass for the first offense of poaching a closed trail is harsh, in my opinion. How many times have you skied at an area only to see a perfectly covered trail closed? Last year at magic, redline was closed two days after a 20" storm. Why? Cause they wanted to save it for the weekend crowd. We poached it, and it's as high profile as it can get. Right under the red lift obviously. Patroller was riding up and yelled at us. A run or two later, they were sitting at the loading station and said the next run down redline is your last run of the day. Even places like Magic get militant at times. Its the chance you take.

Isn't then when you change jackets?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Funny thing is, it is state land. If I'm not mistaken, and I very well my be, you can hike up with no problem and ski down, they can't stop you. Also, if you ski on a closed trail and you don't give up your pass, they can't do anything to force you to give it up. Best they can do is prevent you from getting on their lift. So, if you don't give up your pass upon request, how enforcable is this rule?

In this day and age one does not have to physically give up their seasons pass to lose it's privlages as the resort simply disables the pass so it doesn't allow you on the lift. Isn't that the same result as taking the season pass away.

Course, if they fail to scan you at the bottom then your probably good for the day and plenty of other days your willing to risk it.

 

[andyzee]

In this day and age one does not have to physically give up their seasons pass to lose it's privlages as the resort simply disables the pass so it doesn't allow you on the lift. Isn't that the same result as taking the season pass away.

Course, if they fail to scan you at the bottom then your probably good for the day and plenty of other days your willing to risk it.

So, that's what I'm saying, you don't give it up, you don't let them scan it. Quite simply, you go home for the day. Or if you're in Killington, you simply take a ride to Pico.

 

[RJM]

HI TOM!!!!!

EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THAT I AND TOM HAVE A LONG STANDING REALTIONSHIP. WE HAVE EVEN MET IN PERSON!

YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB TOM!

You trash the guy and then tell him he's doing a great job?

 

[RJM]

ACTUALLY......

Last year, they were on there saying a three strikes policy, which is pretty much a fair industry norm. Not just poaching, but skiing recklessly too, etc. So, if you were causght 3 times doing something stupid, you would be out.

Killington had enforcement last year, it was firm but fair.

This is new stance is way overkill...............

Now you only gotta do 1 stupid thing and you're out! Dumbass!:roll:

 

[JimG.]

I never poach...so I don't have to worry about my pass getting pulled.

Ya.

I think people make too big a deal about poaching. And the people who get caught make it easy to catch them. Like skiing under a lift on a closed trail (I never do that). Or stopping repeatedly on top of a roped run and planning out loud how you're going to poach it and at what time. Or poaching in a discreet group of 35 people. Shall I continue?

They'll never stop poaching, but they're very smart to make it zero tolerance. It'll discourage some people. Probably make it more pleasant for the poachers who take the risk.

Risk=reward. Remember?

 

[millerm277]

I think people make too big a deal about poaching. And the people who get caught make it easy to catch them.

Agreed, if you know what you're doing, and if you know the area, you shouldn't be getting caught....

Like skiing under a lift on a closed trail (I never do that). Or stopping repeatedly on top of a roped run and planning out loud how you're going to poach it and at what time. Or poaching in a discreet group of 35 people. Shall I continue?

It's dumb to poach with any group larger than three or four people, too noticeable. As for poaching under a lift...can't say I haven't done that. I poached Valley Plunge at K about 6 or 7 times over the course of two days, but considering how hard it was snowing, I don't think you could even see me from the life above...and the lifty at the base of Skyeship isn't one who cares (Farmer).

They'll never stop poaching, but they're very smart to make it zero tolerance. It'll discourage some people. Probably make it more pleasant for the poachers who take the risk.

Yup, although I've been to a ski area that actually has a zero tolerance policy enforced (which is a good thing), but having it in place gives the ski patrol the ability to pull passes when necessary without having to catch the person three times.

Risk=reward. Remember?

The bigger the risk, the bigger the potential reward....or loss.

 

[JimG.]

The bigger the risk, the bigger the potential reward....or loss.

The word "risk" inherently implies the opportunity for loss.

I know you know that, but isn't it symptomatic of today's society that we have to spell it out?

 

[Greg]

Like skiing under a lift on a closed trail (I never do that).

Yeah, okay...

 

[NJSkiBabe]

Don't know if anyone covered this yet.

If you poach a closed run or ski out of bounds and then get hurt will you expect someone to come and get you? If you didn't follow the rules - why should ski patrol or anyone else be expected to come and get you?

The closed run might look real good and might be closed for your safety and the safety of others.

I've been at several mountains for ski races and runs have been closed for the race yet every time we start our races we find skiers and snowboarders who have ducked under the ropes or gone through the small entry ways that were NOT racers and poached the run. Ski patrol has warned the poachers not to go any further and to take their skis or snowboards off and walk back out. Some poachers have totally ignored the warnings and have almost caused serious accidents. A few times a poacher or several poaches have almost killed one of the racers who was on the course and isn't having time to think that there was going to be anyone else in their way. If a sign says the run is closed - then it is closed.

If ski patrol or the courtesy patrol tells you to stay off a trail, then there is a good reason for it. It is for your safety and the safety of others.