Killington arresting skiers?

[JesusBuiltMyCrotchRod]

You know.....you're right! I'm pulling the plug!

:lol:

Pull the plug? Haha....On me? Go for it.....

People are forgetting the point here...They don't want you on the snow! This is sooo simple.... There are safety issues, for hikers and employees! Driving snowmobiles in snowmaking conditions is not easy! Visibility is low, snow is uneven, soft, wet....Its not worth the risk of injuring an employee or ""hiker" simply to allow a few yahoos to make some hardcore message board boasting "Turns".... There are a miriad of other reasons, but safety is more than likely the number one reason.

 

[Greg]

Pull the plug? Haha....On me? Go for it.....

Ummmm...I meant the whole forum. It was a joke; hence the wink.

 

[AdironRider]

They put up huge signs prohibiting hiking and skiing! Not to mention I suspect they wouldn't be liable at all as they don't own it, THE STATE does.

Your kidding right? According to your argument if someone hurts themselves during ski season Killington isnt liable either. Think things through there champ.

The signs are there to cover liability and to preserve snow quality. Considering they havent revoked any passes or arrested anyone yet, I dont get hte big deal. Chill out.

 

[JimG.]

So killing positive energy for skiing and riding is good for the bottom line because Killington can make snow in "peace"? There is no way that even a huge pack of hikers could impact the amount or quality of machine made snow. And wouldn't Stowe and Jay have the same concerns?

I strongly believe that the healthy future of skiing and riding is dependent on embracing earn your turns enthusiasm.

John

Uummmm...I never mentioned any bottom line.

And I'm not defending anybody. They own the skiing operation and they ASKED people not to hike. Who have they arrested?

They made a decision I have no personal control over...why would I choose to go there to earn turns knowing they don't want me to?

Especially if there are other choices.

 

[tcharron]

Your kidding right? According to your argument if someone hurts themselves during ski season Killington isnt liable either. Think things through there champ.

The signs are there to cover liability and to preserve snow quality. Considering they havent revoked any passes or arrested anyone yet, I dont get hte big deal. Chill out.

If someone hurts themselves, it would have to be proven that there was negligence on the part of the actual ski area. Regardless of ANY sort of situation, negligence is key. If someone hikes around Killington, doesn't see the signs, and hikes down and ends up stepping on a live power line on the ground that they new was there, there's negligent, regardless of what kind of silly signs they put up in a parking lot. And harassing people because the mountain is 'closed' in their opinion isn't going to help them with that argument.

 

[atkinson]

"but safety is more than likely the number one reason." So who is arm chair-ing now?

There are snowguns, snowmakers, snowcats, snowmobiles, snow (in many forms), bad visibility and dangerous conditions on the trails all winter long, hopefully. Safety concerns never go away, but it is the responsibility of the hiker/skier/rider/crawler to avoid getting in the way of equipment and employees and stay safe, no matter the time of year or whether there is snow. If you get injured, for what ever reason, you pay for rescue, just like summer time.

And if you think that hikers are just snow-scammers, you're missing the whole point.

Do you really want to know why this policy was ever invented? It's fear of frivilous lawsuits, like the one being discussed in another current thread. But following this logic of shut-it-down-if-someone-might-sue, then we should shut down all Ski and Ride schools. And while you're at it, better stop selling food too. And lift tickets. Pesky revenue centers.

Letting fear guide a business works as well as letting fear guide your skiing. Of course, resorts should understand and mitigate their risk exposures, but they shouldn't let these factors distract from their core mission.

John

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Word is that Killington is going to open with up to 19 trails this weekend...

 

[JimG.]

Word is that Killington is going to open with up to 19 trails this weekend...

Is that 19 trails or 6 top-middle-lower type deals?

You know, 7-8 real trails top to bottom would be OK for this coming weekend.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Is that 19 trails or 6 top-middle-lower type deals?

You know, 7-8 real trails top to bottom would be OK for this coming weekend.

This is what I saw on paskiandride from a local..

Strongly dissagree... Hit up K-town this weekend. Employee passes are not valid friday-sunday. Especially take into account that most jobs have not started, but a ton of people who already went through orientation with the mountain already have their passes. Killington has excellent snow coverage at the moment and yes my boys from GMC were at MT. Snow and told me it was kick ass, but we will be open top to bottom with a park. The entire northridge side has a massive amount of snow coverage so trails like rime, reason, double dipper, Great Northern, East fall will be ready to go. Also a bunch of trails like bunny buster and mouse trap on Snowdon will be open.

Here it is fresh from the web-site:

Tuesday, November 13, 2007
Report News:
Snowmaking has been underway on 19 trails as we gear up for opening day on November 16. We'll be skiing and riding off Killington and Snowdon peaks. We'll update you with a projected trail and lift count later this week as we approach opening day. Check out the new filtering functionality of the snow report by clicking on "Trail Report" below.

Our Park and Pipe Crew is welding, grinding and painting new features that will debut opening day at our early-season terrain park on Reason.

The first event of the season - the Loaded Turkey Rail Jam 4 2/3 - takes place on Sunday, Nov. 18.

Killington will offer Blue Square and Black Diamond Trails only, and all skier/rider services will be available at the K-1 Lodge.

MT snow has 12 trails in operation now.

 

[JimG.]

"but safety is more than likely the number one reason." So who is arm chair-ing now?

There are snowguns, snowmakers, snowcats, snowmobiles, snow (in many forms), bad visibility and dangerous conditions on the trails all winter long, hopefully. Safety concerns never go away, but it is the responsibility of the hiker/skier/rider/crawler to avoid getting in the way of equipment and employees and stay safe, no matter the time of year or whether there is snow. If you get injured, for what ever reason, you pay for rescue, just like summer time.

And if you think that hikers are just snow-scammers, you're missing the whole point.

Do you really want to know why this policy was ever invented? It's fear of frivilous lawsuits, like the one being discussed in another current thread. But following this logic of shut-it-down-if-someone-might-sue, then we should shut down all Ski and Ride schools. And while you're at it, better stop selling food too. And lift tickets. Pesky revenue centers.

Letting fear guide a business works as well as letting fear guide your skiing. Of course, resorts should understand and mitigate their risk exposures, but they shouldn't let these factors distract from their core mission.

John

There is no doubt that in-season risk is considerably greater than the exposure from turn earning. I don't disagree with you.

I'm not sure that POWDR has enough (any) experience in the Eastern ski market to know what the mission is. Or, they just have a mission alot of folks won't like. Or one current regulars don't like.

 

[AdironRider]

If someone hurts themselves, it would have to be proven that there was negligence on the part of the actual ski area. Regardless of ANY sort of situation, negligence is key. If someone hikes around Killington, doesn't see the signs, and hikes down and ends up stepping on a live power line on the ground that they new was there, there's negligent, regardless of what kind of silly signs they put up in a parking lot. And harassing people because the mountain is 'closed' in their opinion isn't going to help them with that argument.

So if Killington doesnt put up a sign, then some skier/hiker hits a slightly covered snowmaking hose, etc and blows out an ACL you dont think thatd hold up as negligence in court? Get it through your head man, Killington is just trying to cover their ass.

 

[tcharron]

So if Killington doesnt put up a sign, then some skier/hiker hits a slightly covered snowmaking hose, etc and blows out an ACL you dont think thatd hold up as negligence in court? Get it through your head man, Killington is just trying to cover their ass.

Putting up a sign saying 'At your own risk, BEWARE!' is different then, 'The mountain is closed' and paying people to actually chase after individuals and threaten to confiscate their skis, passes.

Here's a simpler difference.

"Maybe they should treat customers as people instead of poachers?"

vs

"This thread is closed. Any disagreements with me will lead to termination of your thread replying rights, and possible confiscation of your keyboard"

 

[AdironRider]

Putting up a sign saying 'At your own risk, BEWARE!' is different then, 'The mountain is closed' and paying people to actually chase after individuals and threaten to confiscate their skis, passes.

Here's a simpler difference.

"Maybe they should treat customers as people instead of poachers?"

vs

"This thread is closed. Any disagreements with me will lead to termination of your thread replying rights, and possible confiscation of your keyboard"

Considering they ARENT customers when theyre trying to hike for turns for free, I dont get your argument. This is no different then them closing trails during the actual ski season.

 

[atkinson]

"Considering they ARENT customers when theyre trying to hike for turns for free, I dont get your argument."

Thus proving that you are missing the whole point of the ski industry, to get people so excited about skiing that they actually love to ski. Even in marginal November conditions. Even in April. Even when it's cold or icy. Or even when they have to hike for it.

Do you really not see a connection between people coming to the mountain to ski and more income for local businesses, including the resorts themselves? Please don't start with "all hikers are dirtbags" either.

John

 

[AdironRider]

I never said hikers are dirtbags, I do the same thing every season. But I wouldnt get mad if the resort I was trying to hike said no. Id head to the actual backcountry or a resort that is more accomodating. Left gully in Tux is skable right now. THats 10x the experience of some half completed snowmaking trail at K.

Given that the hikers are trying to use the resorts assets (snowmaking, trails etc) for nothing right now, in conjunction with the increased attitude that noone wants to go to K or give them any money (a facet Im sure Killington is aware of now) I dont blame them for closing down. Do car companies let you take their cars out and beat the shit out of them for nothing just to get you excited about the automobile industry? Do amusment parks let you ride rides for free in the winter to get you excited about the summer season? No and no. How is it any different for the ski industry?

 

[tcharron]

Considering they ARENT customers when theyre trying to hike for turns for free, I dont get your argument. This is no different then them closing trails during the actual ski season.

Your completely correct. They aren't customers. And Killington Peak and the peaks around it aren't on Killington owned land. I also happen to not agree with the yanking of passes for skiing a closed trail. I do believe in 'Trail Closed, pass at your own risk'

 

[bobbutts]

Killington is not groundless in trying to keep people away from what's essentially a work zone.
It does seem to be poor judgement to me to make a problem where there wasn't one in the past though. Don't ask don't tell seems like a more reasonable policy if they don't want to look like jerks. Kick off people on an as-needed basis.

 

[tcharron]

I never said hikers are dirtbags, I do the same thing every season. But I wouldnt get mad if the resort I was trying to hike said no. Id head to the actual backcountry or a resort that is more accomodating. Left gully in Tux is skable right now. THats 10x the experience of some half completed snowmaking trail at K.

Given that the hikers are trying to use the resorts assets (snowmaking, trails etc) for nothing right now, in conjunction with the increased attitude that noone wants to go to K or give them any money (a facet Im sure Killington is aware of now) I dont blame them for closing down. Do car companies let you take their cars out and beat the shit out of them for nothing just to get you excited about the automobile industry? Do amusment parks let you ride rides for free in the winter to get you excited about the summer season? No and no. How is it any different for the ski industry?

All of those are arguments based on ownership. Nearly all of the Killington resort is on public land. People are choosing to do this at Killington BECAUSE it's on public land. Do you see throngs of people swarming to ANY other ski area to do this? Newp. Killington was built around the concept of being part of peoples life. Part of Vermont skiing. I know, others will disagree and say other mountains are part of it, but Killington was BUILT UP around this concept and this feeling.

 

[tjf67]

Its my own fault I read these things.

KILLINGTON SUCKS
KILLINGTON HAS ALWAYS SUCKED
KILLINGTON WILL CONTINUE TO SUCK.


If you have any other questions let me know

 

[tcharron]

Its my own fault I read these things.

KILLINGTON SUCKS
KILLINGTON HAS ALWAYS SUCKED
KILLINGTON WILL CONTINUE TO SUCK.


If you have any other questions let me know

I only have one..

How do you feel about Killington?

:lol: