KILLINGTON/PICO: AZ Challenge 2007 Response/Feedback Thread

[2knees]

I insult you because you're a clown who deserves to be insulted. Your posts typically lack factual basis and good reasoning, and yet you arrogantly spew on and on and on.....yikes. You deserve exactly what you get from me. People have PM'd me about you, so I know exactly who I'm dealing with.

Plus you have "industry rep" by your name (with that silly karate-kid picture). People casually reading this board might mistakenly think you know what you're talking about...that would be bad.

Non-skiing hikers in MA, NH, and ME don't know Killington was sold??? IMAGINE THAT?!?! How many actual KILLINGTON SKIERS did you encounter in your travels? What did they know? Christ.....

Here's a suggestion for you, buddy. Just quit talking about Killington. You don't have a horse in this race. You don't ski there, you don't have any friends there. You don't have a stake in the deal because you simply don't spend your time and money there. And you are ill-informed about it, to boot. So JUST STOP TALKING ABOUT IT............mmmkay? PLEASE!!!!!

THANKS, bu-bye.......!!!!!

knock it off child. you're gonna get this thread locked. Are you capable of having a debate without relying on insults? It doesnt exacty strengthen your case.

 

[threecy]

OOoooo.....again, you have little to nothing of value to say.

Just give Killington a rest.....there's plenty of other things for you spew about. Please. You DO NOT have a valid point of view.

Did you check out my avatar....? Now I have a really cool Karate Kid picture too....

And what was the value in that post? You again never cited the instances in which I'm wrong.

And who are you to declare who has a valid point of view and who does not?

I'm beginning to wonder if you have some sort of stake in seeing SP/Powdr fail.

 

[Highway Star]

And what was the value in that post? You again never cited the instances in which I'm wrong.

And who are you to declare who has a valid point of view and who does not?

I'm beginning to wonder if you have some sort of stake in seeing SP/Powdr fail.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing you, because you're not worth argueing with!!! Your posts are mostly pointless BS, so why should I bother? It's much more constructive to simply notify people that you IN GENERAL, don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sorry.

 

[Highway Star]

knock it off child. you're gonna get this thread locked. Are you capable of having a debate without relying on insults? It doesnt exacty strengthen your case.

Aren't you Threecry's bastard cousin?

 

[Greg]

Listen. And I'm only going to say this once. If some people can't get their POV across without resorting to flames, I'm going to lock this thread. I really don't want to do that considering this is a challenge feedback thread. I would have hoped some of you could have considered that before jumping into this thread to flame others. I spent 30+ minutes on the phone with Mr. Nyberg convincing him to participate here. My argument was that AlpineZone is generally a civil community. This little back and forth bitch session now makes me look like an idiot and I don't appreciate that.

 

[Highway Star]

Sorry Greg. You know about my contempt for Threecry's involvement on this subject.

 

[Greg]

Sorry Greg. You know about my contempt for Threecry's involvement on this subject.

See? You really could have stopped at "Sorry Greg." :roll:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing you, because you're not worth argueing with!!! Your posts are mostly pointless BS, so why should I bother? It's much more constructive to simply notify people that you IN GENERAL, don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sorry.

I think Highway Star needs a timeout...uke:

 

[JimG.]

I just don't understand.

I just read a post about Mt. Snow's $6 million summer and how it includes a new clock. That's important?

Killington spends $5.3 million and all they get is crap about it. Just maintenance they say. Isn't that an improvement over last year?

And the Killington regulars seem more concerned with trashing their mountain than supporting it. If I were Killington management I would continue to do exactly what they have been doing since the end of last season. Until every last one of those regulars left and went to ski elsewhere.

Because it seems their current clientele has not an iota of loyalty. All you want to do is bash the new owners. It's pitiful.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I just don't understand.

I just read a post about Mt. Snow's $6 million summer and how it includes a new clock. That's important?

Killington spends $5.3 million and all they get is crap about it. Just maintenance they say. Isn't that an improvement over last year?

And the Killington regulars seems more concerned with trashing their mountain than supporting it. If I were Killington management I would continue to do exactly what they have been doing since the end of last season. Until every last one of those regulars left and went to ski elsewhere.

Because it seems their current clientele has not an iota of loyalty. All you want to do is bash the new owners. It's pitiful.

I agree...the locals should be welcoming and supportive of the new owners..In the long run I see Killington improving alot except for the lack of early and late season skiing, closures of most of the lodges, midweek closures of Pico and the Skyeship, laying off longtime employees, dramatically raising prices, and taking away lifetime season passes...actually Killington is not improving for the locals...what was I thinking...lots of motels and restaurants will go out of business due to less skier visits..some locals will lose jobs...but the new bathrooms sound mad steezy yo

 

[millerm277]

I just don't understand.

I just read a post about Mt. Snow's $6 million summer and how it includes a new clock. That's important?

Killington spends $5.3 million and all they get is crap about it. Just maintenance they say. Isn't that an improvement over last year?

What Mt. Snow has done are actual improvements. 100 fan guns count as a real improvement.

What Killington has done are not actual improvements in my book. Painting the lifts (and doing a half-assed job of it), replacing the carpeting in the lodge, and replacing dead pipe are not improvments, they're the same matinence they have to do every year if they want to continue using those things.

And the Killington regulars seem more concerned with trashing their mountain than supporting it. If I were Killington management I would continue to do exactly what they have been doing since the end of last season. Until every last one of those regulars left and went to ski elsewhere.

I love and support the mountain and community. I don't support the management. There is a difference there.

I agree...the locals should be welcoming and supportive of the new owners..In the long run I see Killington improving alot except for the lack of early and late season skiing, closures of most of the lodges, midweek closures of Pico and the Skyeship, laying off longtime employees, dramatically raising prices, and taking away lifetime season passes...actually Killington is not improving for the locals...what was I thinking...lots of motels and restaurants will go out of business due to less skier visits..some locals will lose jobs...but the new bathrooms sound mad steezy yo

So, why would any of the locals be welcoming and supportive of the new owners? Everything you listed there is bad for them, not good. For lack of any other way to put it, treating your long-time customers, locals, and the general community like crap is not a way to run a successful business, and acting like our current president when it comes to disclosing information is not a good strategy either.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

What Mt. Snow has done are actual improvements. 100 fan guns count as a real improvement.

What Killington has done are not actual improvements in my book. Painting the lifts (and doing a half-assed job of it), replacing the carpeting in the lodge, and replacing dead pipe are not improvments, they're the same matinence they have to do every year if they want to continue using those things.



I love and support the mountain and community. I don't support the management. There is a difference there.



So, why would any of the locals be welcoming and supportive of the new owners? Everything you listed there is bad for them, not good.

It was a poor attempt at sarcasm...lol..imagine Belleayre opening before Killington..lol..it might happen..

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

It was a poor attempt at sarcasm...lol..imagine Belleayre opening before Killington..lol..it might happen..

not that poor of an attempt, got me laughing.

 

[trtaylor]

not that poor of an attempt, got me laughing.

Me too. I'm surprised millerm227 missed it. He seems sharper than that.

 

[millerm277]

Me too. I'm surprised millerm227 missed it. He seems sharper than that.

I missed it at first , but after I noticed it...I decided to leave it, as what he said sarcastically shows the point I've been trying to make.

 

[Angus]

I insult you because you're a clown who deserves to be insulted.

"Lighten up, Francis." - Sergeant Hulka (one of my favorite quotes)

I tend to agree with Threecy. Even friends who have been long time Killington passholders - day trippers from the Boston area - always seemed to have the attitude that the cheap season pass was a gimmick and when I've inquired about their feelings about the new prices & management they didn't seemed particularly upset, knowledgeable or particularly interested!

 

[Geoff]

I just don't understand.

I just read a post about Mt. Snow's $6 million summer and how it includes a new clock. That's important?

Killington spends $5.3 million and all they get is crap about it. Just maintenance they say. Isn't that an improvement over last year?

And the Killington regulars seem more concerned with trashing their mountain than supporting it. If I were Killington management I would continue to do exactly what they have been doing since the end of last season. Until every last one of those regulars left and went to ski elsewhere.

Because it seems their current clientele has not an iota of loyalty. All you want to do is bash the new owners. It's pitiful.

It is very clear that you don't understand. I've been a Killington season pass holder for 25 years and a property owner in town for 15 years. I suffer through Killington's awful midwinter product because I like the 7 month ski season. Killington has always been the king of spring. They say they're taking that away and cutting back to a 5 month season. I don't expect the midwinter mayhem to improve under the new ownership since they can't change their customer base. They have made no moves to fix food and beverage and the former KBL base lodge manager with absolutely no culinary experience is now running F&B. They've already announced they are using the same snowmaking budget as ASC in their malaise years. In recent times, snowmaking stopped before Presidents week other than to blow the glacier on superstar and to blow outer limits for an event only to close it with edge-to-edge coverage 2 weeks later. If that's their snowmaking baseline, I'm underwhelmed. That was not the Preston Smith snowmaking baseline or what ASC did in the late-90's before they ran into financial problems.

The new management has completely pissed off the town. The premise for SP Land buying the place was as a real estate deal. The POWDR Park City people they brought in to operate the resort have made such a mess of town relations that they're not going to be building anything for decades. What a mess.

I'm faced with the option of having to put my vacation home on the market in a down real estate market. My property ownership costs are huge with Vermont's Act 68 property tax laws and soaring local labor costs that have jacked up all my other ownership costs. If you cut 2 months of use from my property, it becomes a very lousy value. I'm going to wait until spring and see how these people do. So far, I've seen nothing that leads me to believe they know what they're doing. If SP Land finds they can't develop the resort real estate, they'll find some way to eject these people.

 

[JimG.]

It is very clear that you don't understand. I've been a Killington season pass holder for 25 years and a property owner in town for 15 years. I suffer through Killington's awful midwinter product because I like the 7 month ski season. Killington has always been the king of spring. They say they're taking that away and cutting back to a 5 month season. I don't expect the midwinter mayhem to improve under the new ownership since they can't change their customer base. They have made no moves to fix food and beverage and the former KBL base lodge manager with absolutely no culinary experience is now running F&B. They've already announced they are using the same snowmaking budget as ASC in their malaise years. In recent times, snowmaking stopped before Presidents week other than to blow the glacier on superstar and to blow outer limits for an event only to close it with edge-to-edge coverage 2 weeks later. If that's their snowmaking baseline, I'm underwhelmed. That was not the Preston Smith snowmaking baseline or what ASC did in the late-90's before they ran into financial problems.

The new management has completely pissed off the town. The premise for SP Land buying the place was as a real estate deal. The POWDR Park City people they brought in to operate the resort have made such a mess of town relations that they're not going to be building anything for decades. What a mess.

I'm faced with the option of having to put my vacation home on the market in a down real estate market. My property ownership costs are huge with Vermont's Act 68 property tax laws and soaring local labor costs that have jacked up all my other ownership costs. If you cut 2 months of use from my property, it becomes a very lousy value. I'm going to wait until spring and see how these people do. So far, I've seen nothing that leads me to believe they know what they're doing. If SP Land finds they can't develop the resort real estate, they'll find some way to eject these people.

Sometimes I stir the pot and rile up the wrong people...I understand your position Geoff and I certainly see why you are upset with the new ownership. Sorry.

But I ask you...is this problem one that was created by POWDR or did they inherit it? Was there a 7 month season in recent years? I don't think so, in reality it has been a 5 (at most 5 1/2) month season for a few years now.

My position is simplistic (and very annoying to some folks)...POWDR inherited a mess that has been fermenting for years. Folks expected them to come in and throw millions into fixing everything and making K what it was a decade ago. And I think that was a very unrealistic expectation.

 

[Greg]

My position is simplistic (and very annoying to some folks)...POWDR inherited a mess that has been fermenting for years. Folks expected them to come in and throw millions into fixing everything and making K what it was a decade ago. And I think that was a very unrealistic expectation.

Probably the most concise and well stated demonstration of this viewpoint yet. If a decline took 5-10 years, how can it be expected to get fixed immediately?

 

[Highway Star]

Probably the most concise and well stated demonstration of this viewpoint yet. If a decline took 5-10 years, how can it be expected to get fixed immediately?

No, but they haven't even stopped the decline, really. Overall, it's been pushed into a nosedive. Less of pretty much everything combined with higher prices. Sure there are some positive changes and fixed couple things but overall they are going to have less of a skiing product than ASC....nothing to get excited about. Will they turn a profit? A bigger profit? That remains to be seen.

If you want an example of how to turn a resort around, look to Mt. Snow or SR or Magic.