Killington summer improvements

[bdfreetuna]

Don't the triple and quad already have the capacity of a six pack.

Not really because they are very slow lifts.

I thought the Quad was going to stay and just the Triple replaced with the 6-pack anyway?

 

[skiur]

Not really because they are very slow lifts.

I thought the Quad was going to stay and just the Triple replaced with the 6-pack anyway?

Quad is going to South ridge, triple isn't going anywhere, just had a lot of work done to it including a mid station for the racers.

 

[bdfreetuna]

ahh thanks for clarifying

 

[benski]

Not really because they are very slow lifts.

I thought the Quad was going to stay and just the Triple replaced with the 6-pack anyway?

Speed and capacity are too different things. Slow chairs can have more chairs on the line to make up for being slow. Though it was a while ago i think win claimed detaches have the same capacity as a fixed grip. I assume the association comes from ski areas putting detaches where they want the most capacity. It is probably cheeper to add capacity to a detach, since you need fewer chairs. Also the six pack is kinda low capacity, since it is only 3,000 people an hour. According to this old trail-map, Superstar and snowdon quads have the same capacity as the new six pack, though 3,000 people per hour for a quad sounds really high to me. It also states the snowdon triple and double combined serve 3,075 people per hour.

I think lifts typically max out at 1,200 for doubles, 1,800 for triples, 2,400 for quads...

 

[bdfreetuna]

^ Those numbers add up. I can confirm the triple is only good for 75 people an hour.

 

[drjeff]

chair potential capacity (assuming a chair doesn't stop for an hour straight....) is really pretty easy. Most lifts load (and therefore unload) at 6 to 9 second intervals...

if you've got a quad, regardless of if its a highspeed or fixed grip, with 6 second chair spacing (the common spacing for many lifts) it's going to move 2400 people an hour up the mountain. The only thing that a highspeed does is shorten the ride time, not increase the capacity.

With industry standard 6 second spacing, a single's capacity would be 600 and hour, a double 1200 an hour, a triple 1800 an hour, a quad 2400 an hour and a 6 pack 3600 an hour. Often with 6 packs, the spacing is increased to 8 or 9 seconds to give the extra people on each chair more time to load and unload with the theory being more people on a chair ='s more chances of chaos loading or unloading....

So the 3000 people per hour on K's new bubble 6 pack translates into a chair loading/unloading every 8.33 seconds

 

[gregnye]

chair potential capacity (assuming a chair doesn't stop for an hour straight....) is really pretty easy. Most lifts load (and therefore unload) at 6 to 9 second intervals...

if you've got a quad, regardless of if its a highspeed or fixed grip, with 6 second chair spacing (the common spacing for many lifts) it's going to move 2400 people an hour up the mountain. The only thing that a highspeed does is shorten the ride time, not increase the capacity.

With industry standard 6 second spacing, a single's capacity would be 600 and hour, a double 1200 an hour, a triple 1800 an hour, a quad 2400 an hour and a 6 pack 3600 an hour. Often with 6 packs, the spacing is increased to 8 or 9 seconds to give the extra people on each chair more time to load and unload with the theory being more people on a chair ='s more chances of chaos loading or unloading....

So the 3000 people per hour on K's new bubble 6 pack translates into a chair loading/unloading every 8.33 seconds

It seems like all our calculations so far have assumed that the triple and current snowdon quad were at capacity. This usually isn't the case. While the Snowdon quad can have a line on weekends, the triple usually only has 2 people on most chairs.

I think we will be seeing an increase in people on Snowdon with the new lift, simply from the fact that the new lift is a destination lift or iconic lift--something like a gondola that attracts the non hardcore crowd. I honestly would have thought that a 6 person bubble lift would be more likely on ramshead first.

And personally I'm fine with that. I never really liked snowdon anyway. I skied it too much during early season and hate the "wipeout zone" (aka the intersection of Chute, Mousetrap, Great Northern).

 

[drjeff]

It seems like all our calculations so far have assumed that the triple and current snowdon quad were at capacity. This usually isn't the case. While the Snowdon quad can have a line on weekends, the triple usually only has 2 people on most chairs.

I think we will be seeing an increase in people on Snowdon with the new lift, simply from the fact that the new lift is a destination lift or iconic lift--something like a gondola that attracts the non hardcore crowd. I honestly would have thought that a 6 person bubble lift would be more likely on ramshead first.

And personally I'm fine with that. I never really liked snowdon anyway. I skied it too much during early season and hate the "wipeout zone" (aka the intersection of Chute, Mousetrap, Great Northern).

I think the location of the Snowdon 6 makes perfect, strategic sense for the lower ability skier/rider transitioning out of Snowshed/Ramshead. Great Northern, off the top of K-1 has arguably it's most challenging, and easiest places for a lower level skier/boarder not very familiar with K's trail layout, to make a wrong turn from the summit on down through North Ridge and on over to Snowdon. Now, with the bubble 6 very near the connector from Ramshead over to the K-1 lodge, that demographic can avoid riding K-1 and get to the trails on Snowdon easier. It will also likely draw more than just that traffic off of K-1's lines, but likely some others as well, many of whom used Snowdon more as a pass through area of the mountain rather than a pod to lap for a while

 

[benski]

I honestly would have thought that a 6 person bubble lift would be more likely on ramshead first.

Rams head seems small for a six with only 3 trails. I have never seen a crowd there though having never skied it anywhere near peak crowds.

 

[ALLSKIING]

It gets beyond busy at peak times

Sent from my SM-N950U using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[boston_e]

It gets beyond busy at peak times

Sent from my SM-N950U using AlpineZone mobile app

It does get busy with a line there sometimes.... but with essentially 3 trails there, and now swirl becoming a race trail it will be 2 trails sometimes and 3 at others. I'd be concerned that they would be over capacity on the trails... better to have a bit of a line at the bottom than too many people all on header / timberline at once.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'd imagine the Snowdon six pack alone will have a positive influence on reducing the crazy lines Ramshead can get. Some people simply don't care for long, slow, FG chairs and those lower level skiers he spend a lot of time on Ramshead will likely ski Snowdon more.

 

[mister moose]

Ramshead has 4 trails: Easy Street, Header, Timberline, Caper. Plus Squeeze play and a few other segments.

 

[speden]

Although there aren't a lot of trails on Ramshead, they are very wide and could easily handle the extra traffic of a six pack. The only congested spot I've seen is at the unload area at the top, where everyone turns left off the lift for some reason, but that seems fixable.

But I think they made a good call by trying to fix Snowdon first. That area always seems underutilized when I've been there, with the lifts practically deserted and the trails somehow not being very interesting. Maybe the long lift rides do make it feel dull to ski there.

They said in their video that they think the six pack and adding the overpasses over Great Northern will change the character of skiing Snowdon for the better. That would be great to pull traffic off Ramshead and the K1, which are the two lifts that seem to get the longest lines.

I'm curious what these new bridges will look like, but I haven't seen any renderings of them yet. Should be fun to watch the improvements go in over the summer.

 

[bdfreetuna]

If Ram's Head ever gets a new lift I would really hope they put it back to the top of the mountain. Kind of a shame those short steep trails aren't on the map anymore.

 

[boston_e]

If Ram's Head ever gets a new lift I would really hope they put it back to the top of the mountain. Kind of a shame those short steep trails aren't on the map anymore.

It has become their primary "harder green / easier blue" type of trails... the first place people go after the advance from snowshed. I can't imagine they bring back the steeper parts at the top.

 

[cdskier]

It has become their primary "harder green / easier blue" type of trails... the first place people go after the advance from snowshed. I can't imagine they bring back the steeper parts at the top.

I thought one of the reasons they lowered the top of the Ramshead lift was due to wind as well (I vaguely recall reading that in the book on Killington's history). But now with it becoming such a key beginner area, I can't see them adding the top back in for that reason either.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Willing to negotiate down to a rope tow.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

It has become their primary "harder green / easier blue" type of trails... the first place people go after the advance from snowshed. I can't imagine they bring back the steeper parts at the top.

I'm sure if they REALLY wanted to, they could widen and re-grade the old "Horn" and have no problem with lower level skiers, and then gain back that upper terrain for everyone else.

 

[boston_e]

I thought one of the reasons they lowered the top of the Ramshead lift was due to wind as well (I vaguely recall reading that in the book on Killington's history). But now with it becoming such a key beginner area, I can't see them adding the top back in for that reason either.

I think I remember reading that in the Killington history book too... or heard it from somewhere.