Killingtons impact on other resorts

[Greg]

West Lake project? I thought it was the Somerset reservoir they were trying to hook up to.

http://news.alpinezone.com/18380/

 

[drjeff]

It seems to me that Snow built a pretty impressive base using the new fan guns this season. They should have an even better chance at glacier building next season once the West Lake project is completed.

West lake won't be done until the '09-'10 season in all likelyhood. Still awaiting ACT 250 permit approval and one of the current sticking points is whether or not the tress/brush surrounding the land where they want to refine/dig the West lake Reservoir is a food source for some of the native bear population. They need to do some studies to see if it is/isn't and the study can't start until all the snow has melted. If it is indeed a prime bear food source management has said that a land swap will happen to enable West Lake to get approval. By far and away management at the passholders meeting a few weeks ago made it crystal clear that getting more water is their main focus right now. So by the time that happens and the study is complete and presented, the realistic nature is that the ACT 250 approval won't happen in time for all the work that needs to be done to happen before the '08-'09 ski season. Mount Snow would like to get the "prep work" for the West Lake site done this Fall after receiving ACT 250 approval hopefully late summer/early fall.

So for next year, their significant investment in more fan guns (my guess from some of the rumors floating around is maybe another 100 or so) will have the same water supply as this year, and they'll likely burry what ever trails finally end up with the new fan guns on them.

Really look for them to go crazy in the '09-'10 season when West Lake should be done, and lots more water is available and in al likelyhood they take Mount Snow to 100% snowmaking.

 

[Greg]

West lake won't be done until the '09-'10 season in all likelyhood. Still awaiting ACT 250 permit approval and one of the current sticking points is whether or not the tress/brush surrounding the land where they want to refine/dig the West lake Reservoir is a food source for some of the native bear population. They need to do some studies to see if it is/isn't and the study can't start until all the snow has melted. If it is indeed a prime bear food source management has said that a land swap will happen to enable West Lake to get approval. By far and away management at the passholders meeting a few weeks ago made it crystal clear that getting more water is their main focus right now. So by the time that happens and the study is complete and presented, the realistic nature is that the ACT 250 approval won't happen in time for all the work that needs to be done to happen before the '08-'09 ski season. Mount Snow would like to get the "prep work" for the West Lake site done this Fall after receiving ACT 250 approval hopefully late summer/early fall.

So for next year, their significant investment in more fan guns (my guess from some of the rumors floating around is maybe another 100 or so) will have the same water supply as this year, and they'll likely burry what ever trails finally end up with the new fan guns on them.

Really look for them to go crazy in the '09-'10 season when West Lake should be done, and lots more water is available and in al likelyhood they take Mount Snow to 100% snowmaking.

Wow. I wasn't aware of all this. I can't believe the roadblocks they keep coming up against. First Somerset, now West Lake. WTF.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

With Act 250 any project/developement in Vermont requires several years and mucho money in order to come to fruition.

 

[drjeff]

Wow. I wasn't aware of all this. I can't believe the roadblocks they keep coming up against. First Somerset, now West Lake. WTF.

The impression that management gave is that this is more of a "speed bump" nothing like the road block that Somerset was turning into.

 

[Razor]

Anybody here familiar with Jeremy Jacobs and the Boston Bruins? Ever since he bought the club, he has been content to put as little money as possible into the team. As long as it is profitable, why go the extra distance to shoot for a championship. Diehard Bruins fans have pissed and moaned for years, but they still go to the games because they love hockey. Sound like Killington? The only thing that will get him to sell is an empty Garden night after night.

 

[deadheadskier]

Anybody here familiar with Jeremy Jacobs and the Boston Bruins? Ever since he bought the club, he has been content to put as little money as possible into the team. As long as it is profitable, why go the extra distance to shoot for a championship. Diehard Bruins fans have pissed and moaned for years, but they still go to the games because they love hockey. Sound like Killington? The only thing that will get him to sell is an empty Garden night after night.

Jacobs is just a cheap SOB and an idiot as a businessman. Boston sports teams when winning can charge almost a limitless amount on tickets. He's foolish not to put a winning product on the floor. I bet the income statement for the Celtics, Pats or Sox would look VERY attractive to him.

 

[drjeff]

Anybody here familiar with Jeremy Jacobs and the Boston Bruins? Ever since he bought the club, he has been content to put as little money as possible into the team. As long as it is profitable, why go the extra distance to shoot for a championship. Diehard Bruins fans have pissed and moaned for years, but they still go to the games because they love hockey. Sound like Killington? The only thing that will get him to sell is an empty Garden night after night.

Unfortunately Jacob's group also bought the Balsam's a couple of years ago and the staff since has been semi-complaining about the penny pinching that's been going on atleast behind the scenes.

 

[Geoff]

Anybody here familiar with Jeremy Jacobs and the Boston Bruins? Ever since he bought the club, he has been content to put as little money as possible into the team. As long as it is profitable, why go the extra distance to shoot for a championship. Diehard Bruins fans have pissed and moaned for years, but they still go to the games because they love hockey. Sound like Killington? The only thing that will get him to sell is an empty Garden night after night.

Nope. I don't see the parallel between the Boston Bruins and Killington. Killington spent plenty of money blowing snow this year. They're spending money on a high speed quad over the summer. They kept very tight reins on the spending... particularly with labor. It had minimal impact on their weekend business when all the people are there. Capital improvements are being made out of operating profit and the way they operated the place created enough cash to spend some money on the mountain over the summer. In the case of the Bruins, it appears that the profit from the francise is going into the pocket of the owner rather than into the team.

I think the Utah owner and Oregon-transplant President simply don't, or at least didn't, understand the Northeast drive-to market where tons of people show up in late-April and early May on sunny weekends. If you sit in Park City, your business dries up and blows away on April 1 since the Texans and Californians don't get on airplanes for ski trips in April. Thus the company-wide edict to furlough all employees on May 1 every year. I've been hearing that there's been some open revolt between a lot of the Killington middle management and he who must be obeyed in Park City. The businesses in town certainly aren't happy that the new owners chased away all the people. Killington was pretty insistant that they were closing on April 13th until a couple of weeks ago. I've taken to comparing it to Soviet central planning. It's one thing to kill all the discount programs. It's another thing entirely to do things that chase all the customers away. I don't think the new owners anticipated the very vocal reaction to the early closing. Killington really doesn't have a great midwinter product compared to resorts farther north in the state. Spring skiing was always their competitive advantage. If you take that away, it's hard to say how much of their customer base will stick around. The businesses in the town are certainly pissed and the town gave the resort a dope slap at town meeting in early March by putting in a 1% local sales tax. With the reduced skier visits and shortened season, any chance of a base village is DOA with the town. There's a huge pile of money at stake for real estate development so I expect some changes in the way the resort is operated. I imagine the Texas money guys who own the land have been to Park City and read them the riot act. It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next year.

 

[bigbog]

...Loaf usually closes Early..

I honestly cannot remember Sugarloaf skiing into May in recent times. Last year they closed on April 29th, and on Easter Sunday in 2006.

Historically sugarloaf skied into May in the 1960's - 1990's and skied until June 1st in 1996?

Sugarloaf historically(of late) closed early..under ASC, in comparison to the years loafer89 mentioned..., and/but it's not because of the lack of snow...simply a lack of visitors! The weekend warriors from the cities give up on skiing once it gets warm in lower New England. Boating, hiking, and cycling take precedence. It's just a long haul up here....one that diehard skiers enjoy making as there's always a good amount of skiing on the mountain after it officially closes. Skiers just have to skin/hike up for the goods every Spring....and the timetable in getting started at the base is much easier for locals...

 

[loafer89]

Well this weekend warrior plans on being a weekday warrior next week and I cannot wait to enjoy some fun in the sun at Sugarloaf and saying goodbye to the Kennebago T-bar at Saddleback.

We will also be back for some first ever skiing at Sugarloaf in May during closing weekend.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

. They should sell 2008-09 passes on the way in/out.

Believe me, unless you're blind, you can't miss the signs in and around the base area advertising the '08/'09 Season passes.

Late spring skiing is all about keeping the season pass holders happy, as evidenced from some complaints about Hunter closing early. There is next to no money in walk up ticket sales this time of the year. Pass holders get upset and vocal when there is snow on the mountain and the lifts stop spinning.

I applaud Mt. Snow for their late season marketing strategy.

 

[ckofer]

A few things:

A) Just the fact that K has decided to close early has created quite a buzz. This may be overall good for the spring skiing industry which can be viewed somewhat autonomously from the winter season.

B) I think it's a sound practice to announce your closing date well in advance, stay with it, and extend it if warranted. It's easier on everybody. So if K doesn't want to be the king of spring, maybe another place does. No sense in a money-losing rat race. Ascutney, when I called them on 4/1 said they'd be open through the weekend. On 4/2 they closed for the season. April Fools joke or bad business handling? You decide.

C) The concept of weekends-only during the spring seems like it makes sense-at least at some areas. The snow should stay in better shape and maybe it can be profitable.

D) You can tell by now that I have no seasons passes...

 

[gmcunni]

with Killington cutting back hours will other mountains follow?

 

[steamboat1]

with Killington cutting back hours will other mountains follow?

Not if they were smart.

If it were me I'd exploit Powdr's stupidity.

 

[riverc0il]

What is the exact cut back in hours? They currently open at 8:00am on weekends which is pretty early. Almost all ski areas open at 8:30am. I can think of only two others that open at 8:00am (perhaps there are a few more, not many). Unless they are cutting back even further than 8:30am-4:00pm, it can't possibly hurt them because very few skiers are even going to notice or care.

 

[deadheadskier]

Stowe spins the Forerunner at 7:30 on weekends and holidays, 8:00AM during the week, though I've seen them open it earlier on midweek Powder days. Typically has quite a few people riding it. Not uncommon for a significant line on a Power Day.

 

[gmcunni]

i think (2nd hand from a friend) that Mt. Snow offers season passholders 30 minutes EXTRA on weekend. you can start @ 7:30 while general public waits til 8.

 

[Highway Star]

Killington's impact on other resorts? They have kindly lost 300,000+ skier visits per year over the last decade, which other resorts were happy to pick up. They managed to cut season length, remove 2 chairlifts, not make snow on primary snowmaking trails, and now they want to open later on the weekends.

Killington/POWDR Management = Greedy Pack of Clowns.

 

[2knees]

Killington's impact on other resorts? They have kindly lost 300,000+ skier visits per year over the last decade, which other resorts were happy to pick up. They managed to cut season length, remove 2 chairlifts, not make snow on primary snowmaking trails, and now they want to open later on the weekends.

Killington/POWDR Management = Greedy Pack of Clowns.

this thread is four years old chief.

gary has a fetish for bumping old threads in the middle of the night. I think he's a panty sniffer too.