Killllington 🎿🏂🏂🎿🎿🏂🏂🎿😀

[Zand]

FWIW...don't necessarily expect a better answer from K either. Apparently here's the response they sent someone else that I saw on social media and they're also now claiming it was a "promotional day".

View attachment 62948

It WAS made clear that they would be accepting Ikon Pass based on their replies on Instagram, so that is also a lie.

 

[cdskier]

It WAS made clear that they would be accepting Ikon Pass based on their replies on Instagram, so that is also a lie.

Oh I agree...lots of people not on the same page here.

 

[LoafSkier19]

FWIW...don't necessarily expect a better answer from K either. Apparently here's the response they sent someone else that I saw on social media and they're also now claiming it was a "promotional day".

View attachment 62948

I guarantee if you go back to June 2022 or 2023. They did some similar local charity promotion with their ticket revenue and still accepted Ikon. Not to forget neither year June was a sure thing even after Memorial Day.

 

[LoafSkier19]

View attachment 62943

On a funny note I just noticed that this K instagram post is a picture of my gf and I. LOL!

 

[urungus]

FWIW...don't necessarily expect a better answer from K either. Apparently here's the response they sent someone else that I saw on social media and they're also now claiming it was a "promotional day".

View attachment 62948

If it was a promotional day then Killington pass holders should have been forced to buy a ticket, same as IKON pass holders

 

[cdskier]

If it was a promotional day then Killington pass holders should have been forced to buy a ticket, same as IKON pass holders

Agreed. K's response is stranger than Alterra's. Feels like both are now trying to cover up the mistake. One hand isn't talking to the other here.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Season's over...

It sucks this happened especially if you lost your place in line.

at the end of the day it seems like everyone got to ski and by all accounts it was great!

 

[urungus]

Ticket snafus aside, it was a fun day under bluebird skies. Next time I need to stay until the last chair to get in the photo.

A couple videos have popped up.

Mike Hayes on Instagram: "Best day of the season. ☀️⛷️😎"

1,972 likes, 65 comments - mhayes on June 3, 2024: "Best day of the season. ☀️⛷️😎".

www.instagram.com

 

[thetrailboss]

Your hatred of Alterra really clouds your judgement sometimes...

I seriously had the "Edit" button activated last night to comment that you would call me biased, but I opted not to say it. Largely because I didn't have to! I've always been clear about my criticism of Alterra. And yeah, it clouded me so much that my observations and conclusions were completely right!

When this thing arose, I said that it was because Alterra shut off IKON passes because Alterra deemed that the season was over for K. I was right. In the Email response to Zand, the agent does not even attempt to say, "sorry that happened." I was right. The IKON Pass is an Alterra product, and Alterra controls that pass. That is undisputed. These folks buy their IKON pass directly, or indirectly, through Alterra, who issues it. That's undisputed. Alterra pays POWDR/Killington for each IKON Pass redemption. That's undisputed. IKON, on May 29th, declared Killington closed. That's undisputed.

I didn't outright defend Alterra. This very much seems likely to be miscommunication between both parties. Ikon's closing date page on their website was last updated on May 29th. As of that date they listed K as closed. K didn't actually announce they were opening for sure on June 1st until May 30th. I know you'll think this is impossible, but perhaps K did not clearly communicate to Alterra that they were reopening and honoring 23/24 passes. You said you didn't see in the marketing announcement that everyone needed a ticket, yet a couple pages back on this thread drjeff said that was actually his interpretation of the announcement (fwiw, I agree with you that I would not have interpreted that announcement to imply everyone had to buy a ticket. I'm merely using his post to illustrate that not everyone thought it was clear and it is plausible that others interpreted that way).

The only thing that you and I would likely disagree about is how to apportion blame here. I have a guess as to your response. For me, I am seeing this as being 80-100% Alterra's fault. I think that the remaining 0-20% range is on POWDR. This is Alterra's pass, Alterra's program, and the IKON page clearly incorrectly labeled Killington as closed for skiing. The consumer bought the pass through Alterra. When this went down, Alterra did not try to apologize. POWDR, as much as I hate them, did actually say "we apologize for not being clearer."

I do think that best practice for POWDR would have been to notify Alterra. Maybe they did and Alterra is in summer mode and didn't get the message. Who knows. For that, I do think that POWDR here did not make the advertising clear and did not reach out to Alterra. But Alterra would have to be under a rock to NOT know that Killington was reopening as it was WELL known in the industry.

My speculation, and it may be biased, is that Alterra has no incentive to make this right. They have already accounted for everyone's pass dollars that they collected a year ago. It is not to their economic advantage to pay a competitor, POWDR, north of $75 per IKON Pass redemption for a day that was worth $25. Hell, they could have said, "sorry, we made a mistake. It was unintentional", but they have not yet. At the end of the day, Alterra will see that this impacted a relatively small group of people, was a gray area, and will brush it off because there will be no economic consequence for them. Like Vail, they make too much money to address this tiny issue.

Again, I have a guess as to where you are going to put blame. It is OK to criticize Alterra. They won't shut off your pass.

Personally I'd reply to Alterra as well and point out that "everyone" did not have to buy the $25 ticket and that other passes were valid.

As I said, good luck on getting a constructive response from Alterra. They don't care.

I don't quite think they "clearly don't give a shit". That e-mail you received was from a level 1 customer service rep at a large corporation. Someone at that level has no clue of the full details. However when pushed with an example that their answer was wrong, they should at least escalate it internally.

I think that Zand is. I, again, don't expect any substantive response. Rule 1 for any customer service rep would be to at least try to empathize and show an understanding and at least say "sorry this happened" instead of making sure to end with your douchey tagline to sign off the Email. They could not even do that.

FWIW...don't necessarily expect a better answer from K either. Apparently here's the response they sent someone else that I saw on social media and they're also now claiming it was a "promotional day".

View attachment 62948

Again, read the last line--there is an apology. Maybe not the best one, but that is leaps and bounds ahead of what Alterra did.

 

[thetrailboss]

It WAS made clear that they would be accepting Ikon Pass based on their replies on Instagram, so that is also a lie.

Lie? I don't think so. A false assumption? Absolutely.

I think you hit the nail on the head yesterday when you said that it caught K by surprise.

 

[thetrailboss]

If it was a promotional day then Killington pass holders should have been forced to buy a ticket, same as IKON pass holders

Why?

 

[cdskier]

I seriously had the "Edit" button activated last night to comment that you would call me biased, but I opted not to say it. Largely because I didn't have to! I've always been clear about my criticism of Alterra. And yeah, it clouded me so much that my observations and conclusions were completely right!

When this thing arose, I said that it was because Alterra shut off IKON passes because Alterra deemed that the season was over for K. I was right. In the Email response to Zand, the agent does not even attempt to say, "sorry that happened." I was right. The IKON Pass is an Alterra product, and Alterra controls that pass. That is undisputed. These folks buy their IKON pass directly, or indirectly, through Alterra, who issues it. That's undisputed. Alterra pays POWDR/Killington for each IKON Pass redemption. That's undisputed. IKON, on May 29th, declared Killington closed. That's undisputed.



The only thing that you and I would likely disagree about is how to apportion blame here. I have a guess as to your response. For me, I am seeing this as being 80-100% Alterra's fault. I think that the remaining 0-20% range is on POWDR. This is Alterra's pass, Alterra's program, and the IKON page clearly incorrectly labeled Killington as closed for skiing. The consumer bought the pass through Alterra. When this went down, Alterra did not try to apologize. POWDR, as much as I hate them, did actually say "we apologize for not being clearer."

I do think that best practice for POWDR would have been to notify Alterra. Maybe they did and Alterra is in summer mode and didn't get the message. Who knows. For that, I do think that POWDR here did not make the advertising clear and did not reach out to Alterra. But Alterra would have to be under a rock to NOT know that Killington was reopening as it was WELL known in the industry.

My speculation, and it may be biased, is that Alterra has no incentive to make this right. They have already accounted for everyone's pass dollars that they collected a year ago. It is not to their economic advantage to pay a competitor, POWDR, north of $75 per IKON Pass redemption for a day that was worth $25. Hell, they could have said, "sorry, we made a mistake. It was unintentional", but they have not yet.

Again, I have a guess as to where you are going to put blame. It is OK to criticize Alterra. They won't shut your pass off.

I'll put the blame at 60/40 (Alterra/Powdr) without any additional inside details on how the decision was reached and what was communicated between the two entities (which we're unlikely to ever get). I'm not one bit worried about criticizing Alterra if it is justified. I've criticized SB openly about decisions in the past that I disagreed with. FWIW, there were a number of people on social media that actually assumed everyone had to buy a ticket for K's last day (again I didn't interpret it that way, but apparently that interpretation was more common than we think).

Also, let me see if I understand this right. You think a multi-million dollar company took it upon themselves to piss off their OWN pass-holders simply to avoid paying several thousand extra to K/POWDR? (and that assumes your $75 number is even right, which has never been public info as far as I've ever seen). Sure...that seems perfectly logical and sensible.

 

[jaytrem]

The easy solution is to just but Epic instead. They've been closed for 3 or 4 weeks, so no worries about the pass not working in June.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'll put the blame at 60/40 (Alterra/Powdr) without any additional inside details on how the decision was reached and what was communicated between the two entities (which we're unlikely to ever get). I'm not one bit worried about criticizing Alterra if it is justified. I've criticized SB openly about decisions in the past that I disagreed with. FWIW, there were a number of people on social media that actually assumed everyone had to buy a ticket for K's last day (again I didn't interpret it that way, but apparently that interpretation was more common than we think).

My estimate was that you'd go 50/50. I think your apportionment is pretty fair.

Also, let me see if I understand this right. You think a multi-million dollar company took it upon themselves to piss off their OWN pass-holders simply to avoid paying several thousand extra to K/POWDR? (and that assumes your $75 number is even right, which has never been public info as far as I've ever seen). Sure...that seems perfectly logical and sensible.

In short, yes. Alterra is making a very cold and calculated decision. They are going to try to skate by. A multi-billion dollar ski company that is part of arguably a duopoly would deem this gaffaw involving maybe 100 IKON passes as a just a hiccup and nothing more. Their calculus is that these folks paid their money a year ago, skied a whole season, and likely have already renewed. In a year this will be forgotten, because like Vail, Alterra's presumption is that the market wants a discount multi-mountain product even if the customer service is subpar. Additionally, they'd say that the mistake only cost the passholder $25.00. Eventually, I would hope to see at least an apology but so far they are taking the deflect blame approach. Again, simply saying "we're sorry" costs them absolutely nothing but they are not saying it.

And I do agree with those who got screwed that that the best practice for POWDR would have been to let folks get one run and then sort it out, or even to comp them and take it up with Alterra if they were feeling very generous. But, as I've said, based on my experience with POWDR they would never do this because they are worse than Alterra when it comes to these sorts of things.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Crazy idea, Killington has an issue with the headwall melting out every year. why don't they put down a dry ski slope material at the top. They could take it off in the summer and put it back on in the fall. As the snow melts off the headwall each day, there will still be a curvable surface.

Synthetics, not going to happen. Remember when Gatlinburg, TN skied on plastic pellets in the summer. Not good. Plus, it would be like playing football on turf. Turf toe, Turf knee, hotdog fingers. Not good.

 

[joshua segal]

Ticket snafus aside, it was a fun day under bluebird skies. Next time I need to stay until the last chair to get in the photo.

A couple videos have popped up.

In the first video, I was surprised that several times after minute 15, the music included an insert of the Morse code, KM ( _ _ . _ _) I assume for Killington Mountain. Any other old school ham radio operators who noticed that?

 

[AdironRider]

I've been critical of TB's constant bitching about Alterra but he is right here, this is 100% on Alterra and not Killington.

Did Killington do the whole $25 charity lift ticket thing last couple years? I went third weekend of May and paid like the better part of hundo to ski, so I don't remember it personally.

 

[joshua segal]

I've been critical of TB's constant bitching about Alterra but he is right here, this is 100% on Alterra and not Killington.

Did Killington do the whole $25 charity lift ticket thing last couple years? I went third weekend of May and paid like the better part of hundo to ski, so I don't remember it personally.

Everybody knows I am a big Killington fan, but I think Killington shares the blame on this one. As I said earlier, given the fact that no one was notified in advance, Killington should have offered the Ikon pass holders the option of a donation. It would have cost Killington nothing and Killington still would have received the publicity for their charitable donation to whatever they were supporting.

 

[AdironRider]

Or people could pay the 25 bucks to charity themselves for skiing in June. That's an option as well.

Its not Killington's responsibility for making you whole after they provide skiing in June. They did their part.

 

[LoafSkier19]

I've been critical of TB's constant bitching about Alterra but he is right here, this is 100% on Alterra and not Killington.

Did Killington do the whole $25 charity lift ticket thing last couple years? I went third weekend of May and paid like the better part of hundo to ski, so I don't remember it personally.

Just found some articles from the June 2022 and 2023 ski days.

2022 was listed at $79 w/ 50% going to charity (I remember this one got reduced to $25 day of because a midweek heatwave and heavy melting resulted in walking required on the headwall and Preston’s).

2023 was $25 w/ 100% going to charity.

Both days accepted Ikon when we showed up.