LiftBlog Reports that Smuggs and Stowe are Exploring an Interconnect Gondola

[machski]

I don't think capacity matters, it's a connector lift.

Perhaps, just looked and OverEasy ISS the same 1200/hr capacity. Of course, if Smuggs replaced Sterling with a HSS, 1200 on the connector could create a big line for that direction. Wonder if they would do 6 pax cabins to keep the width footprint as minimal as possible.

 

[Newpylong]

Vail is not going to buy Smuggs. You heard it here first lol.

Partner resort if anything.

 

[machski]

What wouldn't surprise me in the long run is this new gondola becoming the middle section of a three stage lift. Spruce quad and Sterling Double also become gondolas. Then they could run it into the evenings so guests can travel back and forth between resorts for dining and entertainment, you create a reliable connection between both resorts early season when Big Spruce terrain hasn't opened and during the summer so Stowe / Smuggs guests don't have to drive through the notch to experience the attractions the other side has to offer. I'd be very surprised if this idea hasn't at least been brought up in long term planning discussions.

Similar to Telluride's Gondola, that would be cool. Especially given the long drive due to Notch winter closure.

 

[machski]

Vail is not going to buy Smuggs. You heard it here first lol.

Partner resort if anything.

What I was thinking, you'd have RFID at both ends to limit Stowe to Smuggs Epic traffic and on their allotted days or unlimited if they also carried a Smuggs season pass. That said, the article Smuggs links to on their interconnect page (yup, they put one up now that the cat's out of the bag) says discussions between the two resorts started almost the moment Vail bought Stowe.

 

[cdskier]

Vail is not going to buy Smuggs. You heard it here first lol.

Partner resort if anything.

I just don't get the logic for there being an incentive for either side to build the lift in that case...

 

[skiur]

Vail is not going to buy Smuggs. You heard it here first lol.

Partner resort if anything.

You said the same thing about K making it to June, not going to happen!
(I said the same thing to be honest)

 

[thetrailboss]

That said, the article Smuggs links to on their interconnect page (yup, they put one up now that the cat's out of the bag) says discussions between the two resorts started almost the moment Vail bought Stowe.

That is a big hint.

 

[thetrailboss]

If it gets built, maybe vail can put Stowe/Smuggs on a super premium pass level and go with AIG era pricing… maybe 3K. Sometimes seems to be what everyone is yearning for… 2K+ passes.

"Oh man, EPIC brownie points for you! What a great idea! My bank account thanks you!"

 

[drjeff]

A surface lift would be the logical solution for a whole Lotta reasons or at least a fixed grip chair. I suppose that doesn't pump stock prices though.

Pretty sure part of the plan of this lift would be year round, or atleast most of the year round, use. Takes the concept of a surface lift out of play, and a FGQ is more difficult for sure for say grandma and grandpa who want to go leaf peeping in the Fall, to load.

You have to think of this potential lift more in terms of a people moving lift as it's primary function as opposed to a ski lift. Kind of like the Gondola at Brettonwoods. Sure it hauls skiers and riders up the hill for some runs, but it also hauls plenty of folks year round up to the lodge at the top for dining and event receptions

 

[ss20]

I just don't get the logic for there being an incentive for either side to build the lift in that case...

This is why my theory makes some sense. Spend $1m to get a gondola planned/approved, and the value of both resorts goes way up. The Smuggs owner is getting old. Vail has pissed off the town of Stowe so much they'll struggle to get anything off the ground that improves access.

There is no resort in Vail's entire portfolio where the resort is anything like Smuggler's. Kirkwood would be the closest thing and they have 2 hsq's and a much larger/closer population base to draw from. Smuggs will need investment soon as their lifts are all pushing 60 years old.

Vail's largest capex projects go to it's flagship resorts. The Blackcomb gondola. Park City connection gondola. New terrain at Beaver Creek and Keystone. It is that kind of coin that would need to be put up to get Smuggler's up to date. Even if you space it out over 10 years that's still a ton more $$$ than any other non-flagship resorts in their portfolio would receive in that time.

Normally I would propose that Vail buys Smuggs and leaves it as-is as a one-off in their portfolio. But if a connection is made between it and Stowe the juxtaposition would not work, IMO. Alpine/Squaw(Palisades). Killington/Pico. Lincoln/Mt.Ellen. All of those resorts when standing on their own had modern lifts in place. And for the Eastern resorts, snowmaking that was well beyond what Smuggs has. Investment, and large amounts, will have to be made.

 

[SnowRock]

Realistically how much more life can Smuggs squeeze out of those lifts? I hadn’t been in forever and got back there in 22 and must admit they felt slower than I remembered (probably cause I’m older/softer).

I don’t feel like I hear too much about them being unreliable, but probably getting to a time where they’ve got some big decisions to make Vail or otherwise right?

 

[deadheadskier]

Pretty sure part of the plan of this lift would be year round, or atleast most of the year round, use. Takes the concept of a surface lift out of play, and a FGQ is more difficult for sure for say grandma and grandpa who want to go leaf peeping in the Fall, to load.

You have to think of this potential lift more in terms of a people moving lift as it's primary function as opposed to a ski lift. Kind of like the Gondola at Brettonwoods. Sure it hauls skiers and riders up the hill for some runs, but it also hauls plenty of folks year round up to the lodge at the top for dining and event receptions

Well except for the fact that you would need to take either the Spruce or Sterling chairs to access the gondola. As currently planned there really isn't much of a use for this transfer gondola for non-ski related activities. There's no full service facilities at the top of Spruce or Sterling either and both would be quite expensive to develop due to the need to install water and sewage infrastructure.

This is why I suggested that the long term plan might be to add additional gondolas on Sterling and Spruce in order to make it a full base to base weather protected ride.

 

[cdskier]

This is why my theory makes some sense. Spend $1m to get a gondola planned/approved, and the value of both resorts goes way up. The Smuggs owner is getting old. Vail has pissed off the town of Stowe so much they'll struggle to get anything off the ground that improves access.

There is no resort in Vail's entire portfolio where the resort is anything like Smuggler's. Kirkwood would be the closest thing and they have 2 hsq's and a much larger/closer population base to draw from. Smuggs will need investment soon as their lifts are all pushing 60 years old.

Vail's largest capex projects go to it's flagship resorts. The Blackcomb gondola. Park City connection gondola. New terrain at Beaver Creek and Keystone. It is that kind of coin that would need to be put up to get Smuggler's up to date. Even if you space it out over 10 years that's still a ton more $$$ than any other non-flagship resorts in their portfolio would receive in that time.

I still don't agree. I see absolutely no reason that Vail would dump Stowe. Vail doesn't exactly care whether they piss locals off or not. They just continue to try to push their agenda through no matter what. And a resort the size of a combined Stowe/Smuggs WOULD be THE flagship resort in the East for their portfolio.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

even tho i hate it because of the vail effect on weekends and holidays when i most often ski, the thought of being able to ski from Morse to toll house on a quiet Tuesday is cool. still hate it tho

 

[snoseek]

even tho i hate it because of the vail effect on weekends and holidays when i most often ski, the thought of being able to ski from Morse to toll house on a quiet Tuesday is cool. still hate it tho

I'm sorta with you. I don't want them to take another big bite out of the northeast but the appeal to ski there for a few midweek days and explore around like that would be great...for me it would rival alot of western destinations if the base was in and snow surfaces good.

I still say they address the issues they have all over before taking on more.

 

[jaytrem]

Vail doesn't mind old Halls....

Afton Alps, MN

Click on a lift’s name for pictures. View in fullscreen↗

liftblog.com

 

[Smellytele]

I'm sorta with you. I don't want them to take another big bite out of the northeast but the appeal to ski there for a few midweek days and explore around like that would be great...for me it would rival alot of western destinations if the base was in and snow surfaces good.

I still say they address the issues they have all over before taking on more.

But would they run it during the week? No one cares about midweek skiers…

 

[Tonyr]

Smugglers’ Notch Plans Gondola Interconnect with Stowe; “No Discussions” on Vail Buying Smuggs

“We have the possibility of creating what we think will be a very unique ski and riding experience by connecting these two resorts” – Smugglers’ Notch owner Bill Stritzler

www.stormskiing.com

It's hard to believe the owner is not playing a little lip service here in regards to this interview.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm assuming the folks in support of this plan also support the K / Pico interconnect?

What about a transfer lift from Inverness at Sugarbush North over to MRG? Yes, I know, pretty unlikely unless MRG folds and the COOP dissolves. But I'm sure it's been proposed in the past.

 

[machski]

Pretty sure part of the plan of this lift would be year round, or atleast most of the year round, use. Takes the concept of a surface lift out of play, and a FGQ is more difficult for sure for say grandma and grandpa who want to go leaf peeping in the Fall, to load.

You have to think of this potential lift more in terms of a people moving lift as it's primary function as opposed to a ski lift. Kind of like the Gondola at Brettonwoods. Sure it hauls skiers and riders up the hill for some runs, but it also hauls plenty of folks year round up to the lodge at the top for dining and event receptions

Why? You have 108 making it a short drive outside of winter. No way this is used beyond winter season, unless it morphed into a lift like DHS suggested. Even then, I don't see them running that type of monster lift year round.