Local Residents Sound Off About Burke Mountain Development

[thetrailboss]

The article. Your thoughts?

 

[nek_crumudgeon]

I agree that some steps need to be taken for the benefit of the whole town - zoning, greeb space, regs, etc - but placing a moritorium on new construction seems disasterous to me. Burke's problem with affordable housing is a supply issue, there just isn't a huge inventory . To say that limiting development for 9 months is going to solve anything is nuts. Ginn's master plan and PUD allows them flexibility that the town may not be able to counter, anyway. So this is just going to protect the 'haves' and screw over the rest of us 'have nots'

The one thing that gets me in this article is this sentiment that rich people are inherently 'bad'. What gives? Burke's always had rich people around (Kitchell was an heir to Crayola, right?), I think there's a lot of fear mongering and jealousy going on. I don't get it. But then again, I'm not anti-development or classist.

 

[Greg]

The one thing that gets me in this article is this sentiment that rich people are inherently 'bad'. What gives? Burke's always had rich people around (Kitchell was an heir to Crayola, right?), I think there's a lot of fear mongering and jealousy going on. I don't get it. But then again, I'm not anti-development or classist.

Well said. It's a sentiment I see a lot (e.g. the Statton thread)...

 

[kingdom-tele]

I think what the community is doing is alright, slow it down a little bit, make sure that that the laws are up to date to prevent or at least make it more difficult to morph east burke into a destination resort. at least the community is addressing the possibility that things could get out of hand, time will tell though if the people of the NEK can withstand such deep pockets, and the influx of people who only care about the area for a few months a year

 

[nek_crumudgeon]

Slow down whom? I'm fairly sure Ginn can do what they want based on the master plan for the mountain with a few minor bumps along the way (Act 250, etc). So who is this slowing down, really? Ironically, it's slowing down the locals who might actually capitalize on Ginn. Instead, Ginn gets the green light and the locals sit around pointing at each other.

In terms of out of state ownership, look at the town report. The people who 'only care about the area for a few months a year' are/have been here already and own a significant portion of the housing stock. This has been the case under any manifestation of resort ownership, not just Ginn. No one's complained about people buying houses pre-Ginn who want to ride the Kingdom Trails and ski. Take a ride up to Newark. This has been going on for 5 or 6 years.

In terms of 'withstanding deep pockets', the people of the NEK have been doing that for years and have fared quite well, while collecting paychecks and residual income along the way. So if Ginn goes away because the locals make things too difficult and BMA goes away because there's no mountain, that's a huge hole to fill on an annual basis. $10M annually? Probably more. That would change the complextion of the town a whole hell of a lot more.

 

[thetrailboss]

I would certainly not call Act 250 a "minor bump" in the road. It is a long process that involves public hearings on different levels.

If you read the article closely, you will see that the biggest concern was there is no town master plan and they need to develop one. That is the biggest reason for the hold. Have a plan and follow it. Ginn has the same concerns as well.

I do hope that snowmaking work does move forward though.

I also thought it was interesting that Ginn said, "don't worry about us, worry about who is coming after us." :blink: What does that mean?

Yes, Burke, and the NEK, does have a history of some wealthy individuals. But wealth is not the concern. Attitude is the biggest concern. Elmer Darling was wealthy, but he did a lot for the community. T.N. Vail owned AT&T, but he did a lot for Lyndon including paving its first road and paying for buildings at my alma mater, Lyndon Institute. And yes, Kitchell's fortune was from Crayola and he spent his inheritance plus on Burke--the mountain he loved. But he had a good attitude and worked with the town. To say that "rich people" are the problem is looking at it from a macro level. The problem is the wrong attitude...the entitlement and snobbery that comes with it. The NEK has had a share of wealthy people and still does, but they are coming to get away from the craziness and to blend in with the culture. Not to buy it wholesale.

I think that the dialogue is great and is far from "fear mongering." I'd rather see dialogue now than have nasty postings later (like the posts after my Stratton TR).

 

[nek_crumudgeon]

I didn't catch that 'Boss. What does that mean? The development in town by non-Ginn or after Ginn bails out. Whoa.

 

[nek_crumudgeon]

Sorry to double post. I clicked too fast!

What I mean by Act 250 being a minor bump for Ginn is that it ultimately happens on a state level. We've already seen what Ginn can do at the state level vis-a-vis the evaporation of the wind turbines . . .check the donations to NEK state representatives re-election campaigns this fall.

 

[kingdom-tele]

nek- so what your saying is there is no appreciable difference between people buying homes in the area, or land and building on their 5,10,20,50 acre plot vs. development of a 850 unit resort with a golf course, and i forgot, how many acres did the ginn company just buy up or are in the process of buying up. seems to me that all the people who have purchased in the area are doing so because they enjoy the "lifestyle", they aren't a destination resort for anyone but their families and friends

as far as the the locals making a bundle off this is yet to be seen, other than the people who have sold and moved, granted at a substantial profit, there hasn't been any jobs promised to the contractors in the area yet as far as i know, (which isn't much), there is potential there though and hopefully the local workers are utilized-but if other destination resort construction is any indication, i doubt it will happen-the bottom line always seems more important than what is "best" for the local work force

without burke the mountain resort the community is defintely not in a good place, no doubt about it. but is that the reality, no ginn = no burke, black and white, cut and dried. i imagine that if push came to shove the burke faithful, with some real marketing, and creative adjustments could keep the ship floating- even offer something no other resort in vermont can-making it a destination resort to get away from the destination resorts

 

[thetrailboss]

I move that we have the new Ginn Manager, Mr. Charlie Hardiman, step to the podium for the AZ Challenge. Dave Gwatkin has done a great job and this AM I was hoping we could get Dick Andross, but we should go to the Ginn Man and see what the real deal is. He said his door was open, so I say let's have a dialogue. See who he is, and what they are about. No bullying, just straight talk.

 

[nek_crumudgeon]

Agreed, Boss. That's a good idea. Don't know Charlie or Dick, though?

Kingdom: Ginn has put back together the acrage pre-BMA and is going to build high-density housing, which is a good thing. I think that's way less damaging than multiple 5-50 acre private developments that spread resources thinner instead of centralizing them. I still don't see why the current 'family and friends' buying and building things are any different than families and friends who buy stuff from Ginn. We're talking about percieved income levels and somehow that seems to matter or that because someone buys from Ginn they automatically won't get the uniqueness of the NEK.

Lastly, contractors in the area. Have you ever tried to hire one or get one to show up on time?

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree that concentrated development is best.

Ktele's point is the "ripple effect" and its impact on locals who don't have much.

 

[kingdom-tele]

i guess its different in my mind because i wouldn't expect the same number of people to invest in the resort if they had to build or buy pre existing homes,

my point was really just trying to get at the fact that people who buy or build in the NEK are doing so because they want to be a part of the land, the beauty we are lucky to live in, it is certainly more of a commitment, maybe not finacially but it the respect for the privacy, independence, and overall investment of a land owner. the McCondo, or McHouse of developed resorts, especially 850 of them will not be the same and likely have an visual impact, not a good one, ofcourse i could be wrong, its happened before, but how do you blend and hide 850 homes and still maintain the "rustic charm" that makes burke so special, not knowing the ginn plans makes this a moot point anyhow, i am just going off of other destination resort atmospheres.

how could this whole thing not be about perceived income levels-i highly doubt ginn is going through all this trouble to lure residents in, does anyone know the price tags on these 850 units, based on the prices at the grill i am assuming they might be out of reach for us. while that isn't a bad thing in itself i can tell you from watching what happened to my home town in maine it will be a matter of time before these people are tired of the "dim-witted locals" who don't want the convience of the wal-mart and whatever else there town in CT (nothing against anyone from CT) had down the street and positon into the town councils, etc, in 20 years it will look a lot like every other town south of I-90, i could just be jaded though, sorry for the rant

and you are right about some of the contractors, but knowing the right people goes a long way up here doesn't it

and boss that is a great idea-

 

[thetrailboss]

Wow. Seems whenever I put up a Burke thread, there is a lot of interest! Some great points here and great discussion. This is good to see considering that many people think that Burke is in the middle of nowhere or is not worth a visit.

Now if only the crew up there at the mountain could see some of these ideas....where is nek_girl when we need her? :wink:

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Just one of the "after Ginn" facts will be the increasing property values which equate to higher property taxes which can drive the locals away. What happens in the future for the Burke area regarding Act 60 is a problem waiting in the wings after initial developement.

 

[RIDEr]

I've thought about this a lot and was wondering why we are concerning ourselves with the inevitable and not buying as much land as possible before the land triples. $$$$$

 

[riverc0il]

I've thought about this a lot and was wondering why we are concerning ourselves with the inevitable and not buying as much land as possible before the land triples. $$$$$

i think it already has! :lol:

i think it is a good idea for the town to come up with a plan. it makes sense that they should not want ginn to move forward until the town has a plan. however, it also seems like the town is either A) dragging it's heels based on the date (they can't come up witha plan sooner than 2007?) or B) they had more than half a year to prepare a plan and haven't done so yet, this isn't something new and it isn't like ginn hasn't been up front with plans. ginn perhaps is being punished because the town couldn't figure this out sooner. i will state again, i think it is a great idea that the town wants a plan, this is a must before ginn develops. but it seems like they are sabotaging ginn's first year. some of the comments quoted in that article are not very eloquently put, shall we say, but i understand and appreciate the sentiment. for example, what the hell is wrong with a kid from the NEK growing up to work at a ski mountain? the concern boss and others have on here is ginn NOT putting up jobs for the locals. people can work where ever they want to work pending there is demand for employment in a given industry, a new industry moving into town does not force someone to work in that industry. weird comment.

 

[thetrailboss]

Riv--writing and drafting a town plan is not something that is done overnight. Especially when the selectboard/planning board is made up of volunteers.

 

[riverc0il]

Riv--writing and drafting a town plan is not something that is done overnight. Especially when the selectboard/planning board is made up of volunteers.

never suggested overnight... but does it take 7 months? and couldn't they have started it sooner?

 

[thetrailboss]

never suggested overnight... but does it take 7 months?

YES.

and couldn't they have started it sooner?

Hindsight is 20/20. They were probably waiting to hear what Ginn had in mind.