Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[dblskifanatic]

There are so many scenarios that can be drawn up that either refute or support an argument. Because of this, lots of different rules have been made and lots of different opinions have resulted. I have limited confidence in the data. In fact I even have limited confidence in the science as well because there are a conflicting views. There is a large population now that are robots almost and react to programming by media and politics and they have developed the greatest fear.

 

[dblskifanatic]

something very important - particularly indoors: those recommendations are for people who are vaccinated.

So how do people identify that they are vaccinated? Are we going to have to show a vaccination card? It will come to that soon. However nothing in their guidelines discuss that part. I bet bars will not, they will take on the persons word like VT did regarding quarantine. There were attestation forms but not all organizations were following through on that. So if a bar has 100 people mostly or totally unmasked, will government raids take place to check if everyone is compliant - doubt it.

 

[dblskifanatic]

THIS. Which is bad.

Well those that are vaccinated will not care right? and those without vaccination are willing to take the risk. That does not seem so bad.

 

[kbroderick]

Well those that are vaccinated will not care right? and those without vaccination are willing to take the risk. That does not seem so bad.

I was on board with not caring until hearing a reliably sourced anecdote about a kid infecting his fully vaccinated mother. That drove home the 95 does not equal 100 percent bit for me, and I care about our ability to make sure we take appropriate mitigation steps for higher-risk folks (for me, personally, that would be my 70-year-old father with dementia and my pregnant wife). The number of people with direct contacts in elevated-risk groups is, IMO, very easy to underestimate.

I ride motorcycles and ski avalanche terrain; I have no problem with people choosing their activities to match their own risk tolerances. It's when their decisions impose their risk tolerances on others that I think it becomes a societal question rather than an individual one.

 

[skiur]

I was on board with not caring until hearing a reliably sourced anecdote about a kid infecting his fully vaccinated mother. That drove home the 95 does not equal 100 percent bit for me, and I care about our ability to make sure we take appropriate mitigation steps for higher-risk folks (for me, personally, that would be my 70-year-old father with dementia and my pregnant wife). The number of people with direct contacts in elevated-risk groups is, IMO, very easy to underestimate.

I ride motorcycles and ski avalanche terrain; I have no problem with people choosing their activities to match their own risk tolerances. It's when their decisions impose their risk tolerances on others that I think it becomes a societal question rather than an individual one.

Well then I guess you should just wear your mask for the rest of your life. Newsflash, people get sick and die, that's never going to change.

 

[Domeskier]

I was on board with not caring until hearing a reliably sourced anecdote about a kid infecting his fully vaccinated mother. That drove home the 95 does not equal 100 percent bit for me, and I care about our ability to make sure we take appropriate mitigation steps for higher-risk folks (for me, personally, that would be my 70-year-old father with dementia and my pregnant wife). The number of people with direct contacts in elevated-risk groups is, IMO, very easy to underestimate.

And who knows how effective the vaccines with be against variants sure to make the rounds among the anti-masker anti-vaxxers. It's hard to believe this is the same country that wiped out polio, smallpox and measles.

 

[mikec142]

It's hard to believe this is the same country that wiped out polio, smallpox and measles.

^This. So much, this.

 

[EastCoastScott]

Dr. Fauci admitted on a live broadcast he doesn't know why States like Texas and Florida are doing just fine compared to States that have all kinds of mandates. The science is not exact. Are we going to have to mask up during a bad flu season? Some of you say you will, I won't. I'm not saying the vaccination is not safe, but the government must lift the emergency vaccine status from these companies if they want to push it on us so much. What do you think will happen then? Will these manufacturers stop producing it, if so why? If it's not such a big deal then these manufacturers will not care, right?

 

[Harvey]

Are we going to have to show a vaccination card?

If Covid continues to decline now and into the fall, my guess is no.

If it explodes when it gets cold again? And requires all new vaccine for variants? Then maybe yes.

 

[cdskier]

I'm not saying the vaccination is not safe, but the government must lift the emergency vaccine status from these companies if they want to push it on us so much. What do you think will happen then? Will these manufacturers stop producing it, if so why? If it's not such a big deal then these manufacturers will not care, right?

Huh? If the government lifts the Emergency Use Authorization, then the vaccines can't be used. The only reason at that point that the manufacturers would stop producing it is because there would be no one buying it. You do realize that these vaccines and their clinical trial data were reviewed by the FDA with the same level of scrutiny as they would for full approval, right? Some people keep talking about lack of long term studies...yet the majority of the data that the FDA looks for in the long term studies is duration of efficacy. That's the major difference between the temporary approval now vs the full approval that is extremely likely to happen down the road. In the history of vaccines, the most serious side effects have all been discovered within the first 6 weeks of receiving a dose (this is according to Dr Paul Offit who has been studying vaccines for over 4 decades...). So that isn't likely something you'd see suddenly discovered in long term studies.

 

[EastCoastScott]

Huh? If the government lifts the Emergency Use Authorization, then the vaccines can't be used. The only reason at that point that the manufacturers would stop producing it is because there would be no one buying it. You do realize that these vaccines and their clinical trial data were reviewed by the FDA with the same level of scrutiny as they would for full approval, right? Some people keep talking about lack of long term studies...yet the majority of the data that the FDA looks for in the long term studies is duration of efficacy. That's the major difference between the temporary approval now vs the full approval that is extremely likely to happen down the road. In the history of vaccines, the most serious side effects have all been discovered within the first 6 weeks of receiving a dose (this is according to Dr Paul Offit who has been studying vaccines for over 4 decades...). So that isn't likely something you'd see suddenly discovered in long term studies.

So your saying if they lift the Emergency Use Authorization then the vaccines cannot be used? Why? Please explain this to me. My point is if the Government wants to push this on people, they need to lift the protections from these manufacturers. If they are so safe then what is the problem in doing that?

 

[icecoast1]

So how do people identify that they are vaccinated? Are we going to have to show a vaccination card? It will come to that soon. However nothing in their guidelines discuss that part. I bet bars will not, they will take on the persons word like VT did regarding quarantine. There were attestation forms but not all organizations were following through on that. So if a bar has 100 people mostly or totally unmasked, will government raids take place to check if everyone is compliant - doubt it.

Comes down to how far the government wants to go with it. NY supposedly has an app to download on your phone to show as proof of vaccination. I wouldn't know, I wont be participating in that. It would be pretty simple to implement some kind of proof of vaccination if they want to though, which given some of the crazy experiences over the last year, I wouldn't be surprised to see, but I hope not

 

[abc]

So your saying if they lift the Emergency Use Authorization then the vaccines cannot be used? Why? Please explain this to me. My point is if the Government wants to push this on people, they need to lift the protections from these manufacturers. If they are so safe then what is the problem in doing that?

Do you even know how the vaccine approval process involves? And the different data needed for Emergency vs full Authorization?

 

[EastCoastScott]

Do you even know how the vaccine approval process involves? And the different data needed for Emergency vs full Authorization?

Do you see I'm asking the question? What don't you understand about that.

 

[EastCoastScott]

Comes down to how far the government wants to go with it. NY supposedly has an app to download on your phone to show as proof of vaccination. I wouldn't know, I wont be participating in that. It would be pretty simple to implement some kind of proof of vaccination if they want to though, which given some of the crazy experiences over the last year, I wouldn't be surprised to see, but I hope not

It is so easy to fake the vaccine cards that are being given out. Scan someone else's to Adobe pdf, then edit it with your information. I'm not suggesting to do this, just pointing out with today's technology this can't be enforced properly.

 

[EastCoastScott]

Do you see I'm asking the question? What don't you understand about that.

One more thing, I really don't give two shits about the process. If someone wants to mandate this, they need to remove the protections from the manufacturers. If that takes years, then get back to me in years. Not really my problem.

 

[abc]

I was on board with not caring until hearing a reliably sourced anecdote about a kid infecting his fully vaccinated mother. That drove home the 95 does not equal 100 percent bit for me, and I care about our ability to make sure we take appropriate mitigation steps for higher-risk folks (for me, personally, that would be my 70-year-old father with dementia and my pregnant wife). The number of people with direct contacts in elevated-risk groups is, IMO, very easy to underestimate.

I ride motorcycles and ski avalanche terrain; I have no problem with people choosing their activities to match their own risk tolerances. It's when their decisions impose their risk tolerances on others that I think it becomes a societal question rather than an individual one.

Well, since you brought up the example of motorcycle. You must know many motorcycle accidents are actually caused by car drivers not paying attention to motorcycles. And for that matter, many accidents are caused by drivers not paying attention, period.

Skiing is another. You can be a hot shot skier, but you can be taken out by an out of control skier straightlining into the lift line! Those are the risks we accept of others behavior we can't control.

In other words, the behavior of others do impact us. That's not something any of us can control. We accept there's a level of risk that our lives can be tragically changed due to no fault of our own but due to others careless behavior.

So some people will refuse to wear a mask, just as they may drive while intoxicated. As much as you dislike it, you just have to live with it unless you want to live in the woods and not interact with the general public.

Do I condone those reckless behavior? No. But do I live in fear of these people? No. Or do I go around making a big fuss about people who behave recklessly? No, I don't bother.

I don't ski at Hunter on weekend as a way to reduce my risk to reckless skiers. The same reason I get vaccinated at the earliest moment I was qualified. I do my best to reduce my risk. But I don't expect to achieve zero risk. Much less insist everyone else behave as I do.

Covid is no different.

 

[EastCoastScott]

For some of the ones still saying vaccinated people need to wear masks, this is right from the CDC. If you want to continue wearing a mask be my guest, but don't expect others too.

"Authorized vaccines are effective at preventing people from getting infected and spreading the virus to others, in addition to preventing severe disease and death, according to the latest studies."

Behind the CDC's No-Mask Green Light for the Fully Vaccinated

 

[Smellytele]

Wild. It's wild that you left out something very important - particularly indoors: those recommendations are for people who are vaccinated.

I do care if you haven't gotten vaccinated and are indoors with other people, particularly with people I know but also with people in general. I'm allowed to care. You might not agree, but I can care and I can push politicians and stores to err on the side of caution.

I am vaccinated I can do what I want. If you are not then that is your problem. Get vaccinated or stay shut up in your house. STFU

 

[EastCoastScott]

I am vaccinated I can do what I want. If you are not then that is your problem. Get vaccinated or stay shut up in your house. STFU

Actually, if you are scared then stay home. I'm not vaccinated, not scared, and not staying the fuck home. I think some of you live in Commie states or something.