Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[BenedictGomez]

the staffing at Chick-fil-A's is unbelievable too. It's like they have 40 employees just in the parking lot doing drive-through orders or making deliveries with a fleet of delivery vehicles. Chick-fil-A must be some kind of case study on how to adapt and flourish during a paradigm shift in a business operation??

And they get unbelievably solid employees too, especially for a fast-food restaurant. People who work hard, have work ethic, and actually care. It's mind-boggling to me, they must have the best hiring practices on the planet.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Regarding JNJ, when I made that comment the additional data on mRNA vaccines wasnt out yet, but it is now & it looks solid. I still think it likely having an adenovirus vaccine will broaden antibody estate, but that's just theoretical, and given 3rd shot data is now known, I dont see a reason to go with the unknown at this moment especially given we now know mRNA vaccines achieve better results. Though that's a bit unfair in that we dont know what the results would be if people took 2 JNJ doses like the PFE & MRNA regimens, but alas we can only know what we know, and it's difficult to compare across vaccines, but suffice it to say we definitively know that 2 doses of either PFE or MRNA are better than 1 dose JNJ.

Well what do you know, 2 dose JNJ data just came out today for the first time, and as it turns out the results are great! So all 3 vaccines (MRNA, PFE, and JNJ) are fantastic as a 2 dose regimen.

Johnson & Johnson Announces Real-World Evidence and Phase 3 Data Confirming Strong and Long-Lasting Protection of Single-Shot COVID-19 Vaccine in the U.S.

Additional data show a booster increases protection 94 percent protection in the U.S. with booster given at two months Four-fold increase in antibodies when given at two months 12-fold increase in antibodies when booster given at six months

www.jnj.com

 

[BenedictGomez]

As for the restaurant debate, I suppose I'm a bit more nuanced, I come down on the side of Kusty & DHS in terms of believing it's hard work laboring at a restaurant & that those people should be treated with dignity & respect, but I come down on the side of VTKilarney & ABC in terms of the raw economics involved.

Raising food prices will ultimately decrease demand, which is a slow-burn to losing jobs, and if you really want to cost people their fast food jobs, just look to the $15 minimum wage states which are making automation wonderfully affordable (for the robot, software, and tablet manufacturers). As someone who usually favors the economically best solution, I favor 3 low-skilled workers making $10 an hour rather than 2 low-skilled workers making $15 an hour and 1 struggling with unemployment handouts & depression.

 

[jimmywilson69]

And they get unbelievably solid employees too, especially for a fast-food restaurant. People who work hard, have work ethic, and actually care. It's mind-boggling to me, they must have the best hiring practices on the planet.

Its strange and completely opposite of say McDonalds where the employees are usually miserable and would rather be dead (pre-pandemic that is). I wonder if it has something to do with not being over worked and burnt out. There were always tons of people working inside of Chic-Fil-A. Needed a refill, no problem what did you have sir. People bringing your food to you happily, that didn't make it or receive a tip. Maybe its a cult. Based on the drive through before the pandemic and certainly now, makes you wonder. The Jesus chicken has had that effect on me, but maybe I'm immune to it

 

[deadheadskier]

As someone who usually favors the economically best solution, I favor 3 low-skilled workers making $10 an hour rather than 2 low-skilled workers making $15 an hour and 1 struggling with unemployment handouts & depression.

The problem is that it's really not like that. It's more like 3 people making $10 an hour with ALL of them requiring some sort of government subsidy vs 2 people making $15 an hour without needing any subsidy and 1 struggling with unemployment handouts.

I'm not saying that $15/hr is the magic number. It obviously varies greatly by location and I am just using the numbers you provided. But the point remains that because dining out is so inexpensive, some food service businesses only have the margins available to pay people at a rate that still requires taxpayer assistance in meeting those low wage earners needs. The businesses therefore aren't really sustaining themselves completely via their own economic activity. Why is that allowed to happen?

 

[Smellytele]

The problem is that it's really not like that. It's more like 3 people making $10 an hour with ALL of them requiring some sort of government subsidy vs 2 people making $15 an hour without needing any subsidy and 1 struggling with unemployment handouts.

So it still probably equals the same for a tax payer. 1 getting the same from the government as 3 getting less from the government.

 

[deadheadskier]

So it still probably equals the same for a tax payer. 1 getting the same from the government as 3 getting less from the government.

Well except there is a finite limit for the 1 unemployed person. They have 6 months on average for those benefits before they run out. In the other scenario, all 3 people continue to receive their subsidies as long as they keep those low wage jobs.

 

[VTKilarney]

The problem is that it's really not like that. It's more like 3 people making $10 an hour with ALL of them requiring some sort of government subsidy vs 2 people making $15 an hour without needing any subsidy and 1 struggling with unemployment handouts.

In a perfect world, unskilled labor would get their start in a job like this and then advance in the career. That said, the federal minimum wage is overdue for an increase. But I bet that there aren't nearly as many non-school attending adults working for the federal minimum wage than we think. The aren't many states left that set their minimum wage to the feds (I'm looking at you, New Hampshire).

If we eliminate lower paying jobs, there will be a tremendous barrier for unskilled workers to enter the workforce - and it won't be the middle class and rich who will bear the brunt of that.

I absolutely agree that low paid workers should be respected. I tip very generously for that reason. But we can't uproot simple economics - not without some serious collateral consequences.

 

[abc]

In a perfect world, unskilled labor would get their start in a job like this and then advance in the career.

That's not a perfect world.

In that world, you'll need a constant stream of unskilled "youth" to fill those unskilled jobs and leaves in short order. Ask any restaurant owners who like that idea.

The perfect world would be unskilled labor get started on jobs that train them to be skilled labor. And skilled labor will be paid according to what the market would bear. That world doesn't exist.

Instead, we have adults working their entire life on unskilled labor work that never got anywhere, or until the work got displaced by machines. They bought into this falsehood of "working hard" is good enough to have a prospers economic outcome.

In the meantime, almost all skilled jobs are facing labor shortages. Never mind nurses and software engineers. We don't have enough plumbers and truck drivers.

 

[drjeff]

That's not a perfect world.

In that world, you'll need a constant stream of unskilled "youth" to fill those unskilled jobs and leaves in short order. Ask any restaurant owners who like that idea.

The perfect world would be unskilled labor get started on jobs that train them to be skilled labor. And skilled labor will be paid according to what the market would bear. That world doesn't exist.

Instead, we have adults working their entire life on unskilled labor work that never got anywhere, or until the work got displaced by machines. They bought into this falsehood of "working hard" is good enough to have a prospers economic outcome.

In the meantime, almost all skilled jobs are facing labor shortages. Never mind nurses and software engineers. We don't have enough plumbers and truck drivers.

Personally I think the bigger issue is that many people still go by the notion that was relevant say prior to 2000 (just as a semi arbitrary date) that most people will be work for the same company for their entire 40 or so year career, and advance within the company over time. So they never felt that they had to expand their knowledge base outisde of what their job was, and as such when automation and/or job outsourcing to other states/countries happened, you ended up with a significant amount of people who never really had the mindset more than skills, to make a change in their careers to adapt to the current labor needs, and as such had to "downsize" their career choices from what they wanted to do, to what's available and often that came with a decrease in pay, which then puts a strain on the employer situation with the demand to pay more than their overheads may be able to tolerate, and still sell their products at a competitive price.

There's plenty of factors that play into this for sure, and it's not just the media narrative that often gets pushed that the minimum wage needs to be increased to be a living wage

 

[KustyTheKlown]

And they get unbelievably solid employees too, especially for a fast-food restaurant. People who work hard, have work ethic, and actually care. It's mind-boggling to me, they must have the best hiring practices on the planet.

i'm a heathen athiest jew, but i think this comes down to religiosity. chik-fil-a is super christian, and while they can't explicitly only hire christians, i think religion and religious values do come heavily into play. it gets them some hard working sober folks. it also gets them a pretty shitty record on gay stuff.

quick google to support the anecdotal thing I've heard from time to time:




this graphic and an accompanying short story also appeared today in an email newsletter i receive called the hustle. chik-fil-a takes significantly longer to process a drive thru order but that extra time is for customer care, fresher food, and more accurate orders.

 

[trackbiker]

It takes over 9 minutes to get a drive-thru order at Chic-Fil-A?! No wonder their drive-thru always looks busy. They only get 6 cars through in an hour.

 

[cdskier]

It takes over 9 minutes to get a drive-thru order at Chic-Fil-A?! No wonder their drive-thru always looks busy. They only get 6 cars through in an hour.

I've never eaten at Chic-fil-a in my life, but I would imagine they work on more than 1 order at a time. 6 cars through in an hour would mean they only allow 1 car to enter the drive-thru at a time. Meanwhile in reality, the clock for car 2 has started before car 1 exits. And the clock for car 3 has started before both car 1 and car 2 exits...etc

 

[drjeff]

It takes over 9 minutes to get a drive-thru order at Chic-Fil-A?! No wonder their drive-thru always looks busy. They only get 6 cars through in an hour.

I have to wonder if some of that extra time is simply due to the fact that almost anytime I go through the drive thru at a Chick Fil-A that there are typically subtantially more cars infront of me in line, than at any other drive thru I go through???

 

[BenedictGomez]

I bet that there aren't nearly as many non-school attending adults working for the federal minimum wage than we think.

There arent. I posted the raw BLS data here before on this the last time this subject came up.

This is one of the canards of the "minimum wage" debate. You have politicians trying to make it appear that everyone making minimum wage is a struggling single mother with 3 kids, when in reality the vast majority of people making minimum wage are students (high school or college), recently out-of-school, young people in a first job who will gain skills to move up the ladder, and transients who recently lost a job.

Net/net, most people (over 80% I'd guess) would be shocked just how few "full time forever" minimum wage earners there actually are. The reason people dont know this? Once again, your govenment's been lying to you.

 

[abc]

Are their chicken really that good?

I do fast food drive through because it's fast! So a long line of cars or long wait time from ordering to driving away will turn me away.

Heck, I can get out of my car and walk into many other sandwich places and get my order done in less than 10 minutes.

 

[abc]

when in reality the vast majority of people making minimum wage are students (high school or college), recently out-of-school, young people in a first job who will gain skills to move up the ladder, and transients who recently lost a job.

Just looking at the age of the workers in many restaurants doesn't support that at all. They're not all young people. Not even close.

Unless there're A LOT of "transients who recently lost a job". Or they've lost their job as recent as 5 year ago...

 

[BenedictGomez]

chik-fil-a takes significantly longer to process a drive thru order but that extra time is for customer care, fresher food, and more accurate orders.

Sure as hell not in my life experience. I find them to be ruthlessly efficient.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Just looking at the age of the workers in many restaurants doesn't support that at all. They're not all young people. Not even close.

You're seriously going to tell me you dont think the median worker in a Burger King, Chick-Fil-A, McDonalds, Wendys, Taco Bell, etc... tends to skew quite young? Really?

 

[ScottySkis]

No surprise mj is better for sure lol

Americans are using alcohol to cope with pandemic stress: Nearly 1 in 5 report 'heavy drinking'

More than 18 months into the pandemic, about 17% of respondents reported "heavy drinking" in the past 30 days, a new survey finds.

www.usatoday.com