Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[abc]

plus the cost of hospitalizations will have to be passed either through higher health care insurance rates or through taxpayer subsidies.

We're already subsidizing many other behaviors. We just have to put up with it. (there maybe other ways to recover part of the cost, like higher copay for Covid treatment if you're unvaxxed).

The whole bases for mandating vaccine is to reduce spread. But that appears not applicable in the face of Omicron. So I no longer support these high pression vaccination policy any more.

(BTW, the development of vaccine wasn't targeted for stopping spread to begin with. It was only tested for their efficacy in keeping people from getting severe illness/death. It was later found out it also help reduce spread significantly for the earlier variants. At such, it was reasonable to have some limited mandate, for workers who provide public services. But now... not so much any more IMHO)

 

[mikec142]

The point I stated several times agreed with the basic premise that the vaccine helps, but where it differs was that it would not stop covid and therefore be a demand on free people.
Covid is here to stay, forever, like permanent.
IMO Forcing people with the threat of violence and lost earning opportunities to take a shot that was developed and rushed into use in under a year by a President that half the country didn’t approve of wasn’t really the way our country should work.
It’s good to see some other people coming to the realization that it is to be “lived with” and not “eradicated”.

A demand on free people. Whatever...

There is no threat of violence. The unvaxxed just continue to crowd hospitals and allow for more and more variants which will result in covid never being eradicated and society being forced to live with it.

 

[2Planker]

Took a week Vacation last week.
Felt Super Guilty as our ICU #'s rose and now we have more MD's/RN's/Staff out w/ more Pts in house...


This SUCKS it needs to end.
PLEASE GET VACCINATED

 

[Andrew B.]

We're already subsidizing many other behaviors. We just have to put up with it. (there maybe other ways to recover part of the cost, like higher copay for Covid treatment if you're unvaxxed).

The whole bases for mandating vaccine is to reduce spread. But that appears not applicable in the face of Omicron. So I no longer support these high pression vaccination policy any more.

(BTW, the development of vaccine wasn't targeted for stopping spread to begin with. It was only tested for their efficacy in keeping people from getting severe illness/death. It was later found out it also help reduce spread significantly for the earlier variants. At such, it was reasonable to have some limited mandate, for workers who provide public services. But now... not so much any more IMHO)

Let’s not forget the strain the vaccine mandates put on the hospital system.
RI hospitals fired hundreds of un vaxed staff and are now faced with the need to put vaccinated but Covid positive staff back to work regardless of status.
#backfired

 

[deadheadskier]

I used to work for Partners healthcare, which is the largest employer in New England. Mandatory flu vaccination has been their policy for over a decade. I still have to get one with my current employer too. That will remain the case with Covid. I don't have an issue with it. It's part of the commitment you make while working in healthcare. We want nurses at the bedside and not in the hospital beds themselves.

You and I just aren't going to see eye to eye on this topic Andrew. How about joining in some of the many skiing discussions in the forums. There's a few rather spirited discussions on Vail right now if that interests you!

Or is your only interest in posting here to drone on about your own Covid politics? That would certainly appear to be the case.

 

[2Planker]

Let’s not forget the strain the vaccine mandates put on the hospital system.
RI hospitals fired hundreds of un vaxed staff and are now faced with the need to put vaccinated but Covid positive staff back to work regardless of status.
#backfired

No comparisom...
RI fired less than 4%.
More than 20% are out sick today...

 

[Andrew B.]

I used to work for Partners healthcare, which is the largest employer in New England. Mandatory flu vaccination has been their policy for over a decade. I still have to get one with my current employer too. That will remain the case with Covid. I don't have an issue with it. It's part of the commitment you make while working in healthcare. We want nurses at the bedside and not in the hospital beds themselves.

You and I just aren't going to see eye to eye on this topic Andrew. How about joining in some of the many skiing discussions in the forums. There's a few rather spirited discussions on Vail right now if that interests you!

Or is your only interest in posting here to drone on about your own Covid politics? That would certainly appear to be the case.

How long has the flu shot been around?

Not much interest or knowledge on the Vail topic. My only comment would be it sounds like a real shame what they are doing at Wild Cat. Love that place even though I haven’t been there in 10+ years.

The skiing this year has been ho hum at best at Sunday River and seems consistent through out the region. Biggest issue there has been “staffing issues” which I can only assume in some way has a Covid angle.

Maybe some fresh snow late this week

 

[Andrew B.]

No comparisom...
RI fired less than 4%.
More than 20% are out sick today...

And some will be back to work tomorrow with Covid
The way the regulations are getting lessened makes me feel like even those in control know that trying to eradicate Covid isnt going to work so we better find some work arounds Going forward.

 

[deadheadskier]

The MRNA vaccines have been in development for over a decade. They have also proven to be more effective than the traditional vaccine put out by JnJ. My basic understanding of the MRNA is that it is the way of the future and the future is now.

But I'll humor you and call them "experimental". At what point has enough time passed that you think they should be accepted as legitimate and no longer "experimental."

 

[abc]

There're a lot of other changes since the pandemic that might become permanent. Some of those changes also affects the ski industry. Fixated on Covid is shortsighted.

 

[Andrew B.]

The MRNA vaccines have been in development for over a decade. They have also proven to be more effective than the traditional vaccine put out by JnJ. My basic understanding of the MRNA is that it is the way of the future and the future is now.

But I'll humor you and call them "experimental". At what point has enough time passed that you think they should be accepted as legitimate and no longer "experimental."

At the start of this a friend in the Pharma industry said drugs like this typically take 3-5 years before gaining approval. I think that within a few years it will gain widespread appreciation. It was foolish to think that forcing a new drug on a nation of freethinking people wasn’t going to have some kickback. Especially when it was accompanied with the logic that it was the only way around Covid. We are seeing now that there are some work arounds, work arounds that some folks couldn’t comprehend 6 months ago.

Firing the people who you need most at a critical time isn’t lessening the impact on the healthcare system which has always been the main talking point.

 

[deadheadskier]

If those workers don't see the importance of leading by example and doing whatever they can to maintain health and further tying up resources at the very organizations they work for, then perhaps healthcare was the wrong trade for them to be in in the first place.

 

[cdskier]

At the start of this a friend in the Pharma industry said drugs like this typically take 3-5 years before gaining approval. I think that within a few years it will gain widespread appreciation. It was foolish to think that forcing a new drug on a nation of freethinking people wasn’t going to have some kickback. Especially when it was accompanied with the logic that it was the only way around Covid. We are seeing now that there are some work arounds, work arounds that some folks couldn’t comprehend 6 months ago.

Firing the people who you need most at a critical time isn’t lessening the impact on the healthcare system which has always been the main talking point.

The main reason the approval takes that long is that they need that long to determine the longer term efficacy. Side-effects for vaccines nearly always manifest themselves in a short period of time. Safety data is not something that would have changed with a longer approval timeline (contrary to popular belief and the popular claim that approval was too fast so it isn't safe). So the main difference between approving in the timeline that they did vs waiting for the efficacy data is that they didn't know up front that the efficacy in a 2-series mRNA shot would wane over time (nor obviously were they able to determine effectiveness against variants).

 

[Andrew B.]

If those workers don't see the importance of leading by example and doing whatever they can to maintain health and further tying up resources at the very organizations they work for, then perhaps healthcare was the wrong trade for them to be in in the first place.

What does that have to do with firing perfectly capable people and now requiring infected people to work?
Maybe they shouldn’t be in healthcare but they definitely are trained people that aren’t helping to lessen the impact on our health care system right now.

 

[deadheadskier]

Those perfectly capable people should have gotten the vaccine. They still should. Everyone should who doesn't have a risk factor. Omicron has not changed that fact.

Again, having hospital personnel tie up healthcare resources any more than that which is unavoidable is unacceptable. We don't want anyone on a vent and tying up ICU beds for weeks on end; especially healthcare personnel who should damn well know better to take better precautions. Especially when they are free.

 

[abc]

Especially when they are free.

I would hope health care workers are all paid well enough they can afford the vaccine if they want it, whether it's free or not.

 

[Andrew B.]

Those perfectly capable people should have gotten the vaccine. They still should. Everyone should who doesn't have a risk factor. Omicron has not changed that fact.

Again, having hospital personnel tie up healthcare resources any more than that which is unavoidable is unacceptable. We don't want anyone on a vent and tying up ICU beds for weeks on end; especially healthcare personnel who should damn well know better to take better precautions. Especially when they are free.

So basically “they are dumb and should be punished even at the expense of the healthcare system” is the logic here?

As unvaccinated people don’t they still pose a threat to the healthcare system IF they get sick? Wouldn’t they also pose a threat if they were vaccinated and got sick? Differentiating between the two is splitting hairs.

If it’s now ok for Covid positive vaccinated people to work in a hospital why shouldn’t unvaccinated, Covid negative people be able to? The mandate made no sense if the idea was to lessen the burden on healthcare.

 

[2Planker]

My Nephew tested positive on XMas Eve. NO symptoms at all.....
The they changed the Guidelines to "5 Day Rule"
On Day #5 he played in his college Hoops Game.
School official told Coach "He should have been tested first."
OK kid, Go get tested tmrw"
Day 6 couldn't get a test
Day #7 Tested Positive
Now the whole college hoops team in done for the next week.....

Lesson Learned - Many are still shedding Viruses at 6. 7 days.

 

[Great Bear]

What does that have to do with firing perfectly capable people and now requiring infected people to work?
Maybe they shouldn’t be in healthcare but they definitely are trained people that aren’t helping to lessen the impact on our health care system right now.

I know this B. you keep repeating fits your agenda but you are spreading bad information by continuing to repeat this. The change in quarantine from
10 to 5 days is not "requiring infected people to work" - it is from research and learning that the risk of transmission from a vaccinated asymptomatic person is significantly lower in days 6-10 and the growing evidence that the infection period is 2 days before and 3 days after symptoms begin.

As unvaccinated people don’t they still pose a threat to the healthcare system IF they get sick? Wouldn’t they also pose a threat if they were vaccinated and got sick? Differentiating between the two is splitting hairs.

Not splitting hairs at all. Even in the face of Omicron, Vaccinated (and especially those who have received their booster) are less likely to contract COVID and therefore less likely to transmit. They are also significantly less likely to end up in the hospital themselves.

 

[Great Bear]

My Nephew tested positive on XMas Eve. NO symptoms at all.....
The they changed the Guidelines to "5 Day Rule"
On Day #5 he played in his college Hoops Game.
School official told Coach "He should have been tested first."
OK kid, Go get tested tmrw"
Day 6 couldn't get a test
Day #7 Tested Positive
Now the whole college hoops team in done for the next week.....

Lesson Learned - Many are still shedding Viruses at 6. 7 days.

A day #7 positive test does not mean he is shedding virus.
In many cases the recommendation has been to not test at all for 90 days after testing positive because of the high chance of false positives. It will be interesting to see how they handle this with the updated 5 Day quarantine.