Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[BenedictGomez]

Catching-up reading through this thread, it's somewhat alarming the overconfidence many of the vaccinated here have, almost like they're an anti-COVID superhero.

The breakthrough infections are massively higher than what you are being told, because your government is (once again) lying to you. They're intentionally not counting breakthrough infections unless they lead to hospitalization or death. This is like taking a survey of skiers & snowboarders at Jay Peak, but only counting snowboarders if they're wearing yellow coats. Your snowboarder count is going to be wildly lower than reality. The reason they're lying to in this manner is probably because they fear if you know you might still get COVID after vaccination, the currently unvaxxed will be even more unlikely to get vaccinated. This is, IMO, probably true given millions of morons dont get the flu vaccine each year because, "you still might get flu", demonstrating they have no idea what the point of vaccination is in the first place. I blame the government school system for that.

Net/net, I'm still not eating inside at restaurants, going to concerts, etc... and wont for a while yet. If I didnt have a 2-year old I'd risk it, but with a non-vaxxed kid at home, I think it's enormously irresponsible/selfish for my short-term fun. YOMV, and I respect that.

 

[boston_e]

Not really a big deal to make a reservation provided the site doesn't glitch out when you try to do it, the issue is when they penalize for no shows or canceling if you change your mind

I never went through the cancellation process but I can see why they would want to discourage no-shows without some sort of notice as in theory there could be someone in line wanting to make a reservation if spots open up.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Also, **** the FDA not "recommending" booster shots for anyone who wants one.

I dont care what their "expert panel" decides for me, both the Israeli & UK booster study data are robust enough even with some admittedly stochastic variable uncertainty & both demonstrate statistically powerful evidence of anti-COVID19 efficacy. There's also a US study showing wild-type antibody response skyrocketing after the 3rd dose, so yeah, I'll be getting a 3rd shot of PFE at 5 months post vaccination, which will be about 1 month from now, versus allowing my antibody response to predictably drop like we now know it will. The FDA can kiss my azz.

 

[deadheadskier]

Catching-up reading through this thread, it's somewhat alarming the overconfidence many of the vaccinated here have, almost like they're an anti-COVID superhero.

The breakthrough infections are massively higher than what you are being told, because your government is (once again) lying to you. They're intentionally not counting breakthrough infections unless they lead to hospitalization or death. This is like taking a survey of skiers & snowboarders at Jay Peak, but only counting snowboarders if they're wearing yellow coats. Your snowboarder count is going to be wildly lower than reality. The reason they're lying to in this manner is probably because they fear if you know you might still get COVID after vaccination, the currently unvaxxed will be even more unlikely to get vaccinated. This is, IMO, probably true given millions of morons dont get the flu vaccine each year because, "you still might get flu", demonstrating they have no idea what the point of vaccination is in the first place. I blame the government school system for that.

Net/net, I'm still not eating inside at restaurants, going to concerts, etc... and wont for a while yet. If I didnt have a 2-year old I'd risk it, but with a non-vaxxed kid at home, I think it's enormously irresponsible/selfish for my short-term fun. YOMV, and I respect that.

I feel the same. Though I am going to outdoor concerts in settings that allow for good social distancing. I had many friends right up front on the rail for Trey Friday night. I was content being in the back of the field with people several feet away from me.

We did start going out to eat indoors again a couple of times a month in the spring, but stopped that again early in July.

I have to attend the largest Anesthesia Convention of the year in a few weeks out in San Diego. I'm a bit nervous about that. Mask up and hope for the best I guess.

It's unfortunate the government pretty much has to lie about the vaccine and breakthrough cases.

 

[deadheadskier]

Also, **** the FDA not "recommending" booster shots for anyone who wants one.

I dont care what their "expert panel" decides for me, both the Israeli & UK booster study data are robust enough even with some admittedly stochastic variable uncertainty & both demonstrate statistically powerful evidence of anti-COVID19 efficacy. There's also a US study showing wild-type antibody response skyrocketing after the 3rd dose, so yeah, I'll be getting a 3rd shot of PFE at 5 months post vaccination, which will be about 1 month from now, versus allowing my antibody response to predictably drop like we now know it will. The FDA can kiss my azz.

What is your strategy for gaining permission?

You also had mentioned prior getting the J&J to introduce a different style of vaccine to your system. Something make you change that thought?

I received dose 2 of Moderna the first week of March. I'd get a third tomorrow if available to me

 

[rebel1916]

What about the black And brown communities that don’t trust the vaccine?

Just as dumb as the angry white guys who don't trust the vaccine.

 

[BenedictGomez]

What is your strategy for gaining permission?

You also had mentioned prior getting the J&J to introduce a different style of vaccine to your system. Something make you change that thought?

I received dose 2 of Moderna the first week of March. I'd get a third tomorrow if available to me

Permission? I dont need permission, I'll just schedule it at my local Rite Aid, they're awash in unused vaccines right now, and I dont suspect that will change by next month.

Regarding JNJ, when I made that comment the additional data on mRNA vaccines wasnt out yet, but it is now & it looks solid. I still think it likely having an adenovirus vaccine will broaden antibody estate, but that's just theoretical, and given 3rd shot data is now known, I dont see a reason to go with the unknown at this moment especially given we now know mRNA vaccines achieve better results. Though that's a bit unfair in that we dont know what the results would be if people took 2 JNJ doses like the PFE & MRNA regimens, but alas we can only know what we know, and it's difficult to compare across vaccines, but suffice it to say we definitively know that 2 doses of either PFE or MRNA are better than 1 dose JNJ. Tonight I've been reading through the data that just came out on Friday in the CDC's M&M report, and now I'm thinking I'll probably get the MRNA shot for my booster rather than a 3rd shot of PFE, as the MRNA results are a bit better (lower hospitalization rate, longer-lasting effectiveness, and higher anti-RBD levels) than PFE. They dont know why for sure, but one reason may be because the MRNA shot has 233% more mRNA than the PFE shot, so it could simply be a dose-dependent response. It's interesting, because we've long known they're initially both about the same effectiveness, but one of the key bits of new information is that at about 4-months post vaccination, MRNA starts to pull away from PFE.

 

[boston_e]

Permission? I dont need permission, I'll just schedule it at my local Rite Aid, they're awash in unused vaccines right now, and I dont suspect that will change by next month.

Regarding JNJ, when I made that comment the additional data on mRNA vaccines wasnt out yet, but it is now and it looks solid. I still think it likely having an adenovirus vaccine will broaden the antibody estate, but that's just theoretical for now, and given the 3rd shot data is now known, I dont see a reason to go with the unknown at this moment especially given we now know the mRNA vaccines achieve better results. Though that's a bit unfair in that we dont know what the results would be if people took 2 JNJ doses like the PFE & MRNA regimens, but alas we can only know what we know, and it's difficult to compare across vaccines, but suffice it to say we definitively know that 2 doses of either PFE or MRNA are better than 1 dose of JNJ. Tonight I've been reading through the data that just came out on Friday in the CDC's M&M report, and now I'm thinking I'll probably get the MRNA shot for my booster rather than a 3rd shot of PFE, as the MRNA results are a bit better (lower hospitalization rate, longer-lasting effectiveness, and higher anti-RBD levels) than PFE. They dont know why for sure, but one reason may be because the MRNA shot has 233% more mRNA to it than the PFE shot, so it could simply be a dose-dependent response. It's interesting, because initially they're both about the same effectiveness, but at about 4-months post vaccination, MRNA starts to pull away from PFE.

If you give them your real name they will likely have a record of your proir vaccine in the database and not administer a dose that falls outside of the cdc guidelines…. At least that is what happened with a friend who tried to get a Pfizer shot after previously having the J&J.

 

[deadheadskier]

So the drug stores won't be requiring a prescription to schedule a third dose?

I suppose the tracking of this has been so lax, you could perhaps just call your local pharmacy and say you're looking for your first vaccine and prefer Moderna / Pfizer whatever based upon what you have read.

That's an interesting idea. Six months ago I would not have considered such a selfish idea as I wouldn't have wanted to bump someone out of line. But as you say, there's ample vaccine on ice that the government is begging people to take. If someone else doesn't want their first jab, pass it over for my third.

 

[BenedictGomez]

If you give them your real name they will likely have a record of your proir vaccine in the database and not administer a dose that falls outside of the cdc guidelines…. At least that is what happened with a friend who tried to get a Pfizer shot after previously having the J&J.

That's interesting to hear. I imagine there's state-by-state variability, as in NJ there was no computer. I showed up for my appointment, checked-in at the front door where they crossed my name off a piece of paper, and sent me to the back room for the shot (no computer there either). Millions of Americans have already taken it upon themselves to get a booster, at least 4M thus far, but possibly way more.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Dont know how far down the rabbit hole people care to look into this, but this is one of the key charts released Friday showing efficacy over time by vaccine in preventing hospitalization in case anyone's interested.

TABLE 2. COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness* against COVID-19–associated hospitalization among adults without immunocompromising conditions, by vaccine product — 21 hospitals in 18 U.S. states,† March–August 2021​

 

[cdskier]

That's interesting to hear. I imagine there's state-by-state variability, as in NJ there was no computer. I showed up for my appointment, checked-in at the front door where they crossed my name off a piece of paper, and sent me to the back room for the shot (no computer there either). Millions of Americans have already taken it upon themselves to get a booster, at least 4M thus far, but possibly way more.

Don't you have to give them more information when you make the appointment? The data of who is vaccinated all gets submitted to NJ's database...so I don't see how any place that is giving shots isn't asking for the info. Plus they should be billing insurance unless you tell them you don't have any.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Don't you have to give them more information when you make the appointment? The data of who is vaccinated all gets submitted to NJ's database...so I don't see how any place that is giving shots isn't asking for the info. Plus they should be billing insurance unless you tell them you don't have any.

They ask for the info, but all you have to do (AFAIK in most places) is simply check that you are either moderately immunocompromised or severely immunocompromised. In other words, lie. Now, normally I would say that's disgracefully reprehensible behaviour, but as I mentioned before, not in the current climate we exist in where the vendors are swimming in unused COVID19 vaccine.

I just checked my local Rite Aid & every date on the calendar is wide open for COVID19 appointments (see screenshot #1 below) Keep in mind, they only schedule 1 appointment per 10 minutes, so to have 60 open slots in a day, just two days from now is quite a thing to behold! Appointments start at 9:30am, so that is basically the entire day (see screenshot #2 below). All wide open. What it is is an empirical view into what we already know & has been discussed at length in this thread, that everyone who wants to be vaccinated is already vaccinated. These vaccine vials are just rotting on the shelf at this point. So, to each his/her own in terms of what they choose to do, but I'm getting a booster, and I dont feel the least bit guilty about it given the mathematical reality of the situation. Screw the FDA & their "CYA first" behaviour.

 

[cdskier]

They ask for the info, but all you have to do (AFAIK in most places) is simply check that you are either moderately immunocompromised or severely immunocompromised. In other words, lie. Now, normally I would say that's reprehensible behaviour, but as I mentioned before, not in the current climate we exist in where the vendors are swimming in unused COVID19 vaccine.

I just checked my local Rite Aid & every date on the calendar is wide open for COVID19 appointments (see screenshot below) Keep in mind, they only schedule 1 appointment per 10 minutes, so to have 60 open slots in a day, just two days from now is quite a thing to behold! Appointments start at 9:40am, so that is basically the entire day. Wide open. What it is is an empirical view into what we already know & has been discussed at length in this thread, that everyone who wants to be vaccinated is already vaccinated. These vaccine vials are just rotting on the shelf at this point. So, to each his/her own in terms of what they choose to do, but I'm getting a booster, and I dont feel the least guilty about it. Screw the FDA & their "CYA first" behaviour.

Ahh...ok...so you're legitimately telling them you're there for a 3rd shot. You're just claiming you're eligible under the immunocompromised guideline that allows a 3rd shot to people in that group. In that case, yes, I can see how they wouldn't try to verify that (or even really have a way to verify that).

 

[jimmywilson69]

so no more unscrupulous than those that were getting shots under the "obese" category early on.

In a few sentences, why is the FDA not wanting boosters? Isn't Biden's initiative to want boosters? I mean on one hand I'm happy that the FDA is operating independently from the President, but on the other if it makes sense then why not recommend it. Obviously there are many people who were vaccinated and the better their immunity/protection is, the sooner that maybe we can get in front of this thing (if that's possible). We can't possibly be "saving" these shots for those who are unvaccinated right? I mean at this point those people have made up their mind (children excluded of course).

 

[cdskier]

so no more unscrupulous than those that were getting shots under the "obese" category early on.

In a few sentences, why is the FDA not wanting boosters? Isn't Biden's initiative to want boosters? I mean on one hand I'm happy that the FDA is operating independently from the President, but on the other if it makes sense then why not recommend it. Obviously there are many people who were vaccinated and the better their immunity/protection is, the sooner that maybe we can get in front of this thing (if that's possible). We can't possibly be "saving" these shots for those who are unvaccinated right? I mean at this point those people have made up their mind (children excluded of course).

The FDA advisory panel's reasoning is that there is not enough data yet to justify it for everyone. Some experts said the panel was forced to make the decision too early basically. A month or two from now, they might have made a different decision (and of course could change their mind and recommend approval in the future anyway). Also of note, the advisory panel's recommendation is just that...a recommendation. The FDA itself could still go against the recommendation of the panel.

Also a couple top FDA scientists are resigning due to the booster debate. They feel they are being "politically pressured" to make decisions and are supposedly resigning in protest. What Biden wants should not be relevant.

 

[dblskifanatic]

As we continue to barrel towards the inevitable end of this thread...

agree

 

[dblskifanatic]

I wouldn't be too heart broken about that.

One thing I started doing during the peak of pandemic was figure out how to cook just about everything in a microwave. Because I was driving back from Colorado to NY. I had to eat, but restaurant was suspect at that point...

Turns out there's a lot you can do with just a microwave.

Since then, I've actually fallen in love with take outs. I'm not talking about cheap Chinese/Mexican ones. But REAL restaurants doing curbside take out of some of their regular dishes. Good food, not exactly cheap. But I get to eat it at my leisure without the waitress constantly asking if my water needs refilling!

So between curbside take out of decent restaurants and microwave recipes, I'm eating better than previous years. And a little less expensive too. Though the last point isn't super significant. Being able to eat my dinner in my pajamas is just more relaxing than having to wait for a table, wait for my food then wait to get the check!

My wife and I were never concerned about eating out. Starting in Moab in May of last year where dinning in was allowed, to the following months as restaurants opened up, we ate out frequently because we took a stay outside approach and traveled. Even to this day we eat out several times per week. with the spacing, partitions and cleaning that was being done we felt totally safe. Prior to dine-in being available in April and early May of last year, we took advantage of take-out for a bit but for us part of eating out was to get out of the house, atmosphere and feeling a little more normal. Take-out did not check that box for us.

We made three one way trips from CO to MA and did dine in all the way.

 

[abc]

for us part of eating out was to get out of the house, atmosphere and feeling a little more normal. Take-out did not check that box for us.

I on the other hand, consider take out of good food from nice restaurant as the "new normal". One that I hope for anyway.

I never like the noisy, crowded indoor dining of most restaurants. Add to that the need to book tables in most of the good restaurants. But I also love good food. So I put up with the things I don't like about restaurants for their food. Take out just removed the negative and preserve the things I like about them.

I understand there're those to whom the ambiance is as important as the food. For those, dining in is still the best experience. But for them, a restaurant that offers take out of many of their menu means I wouldn't be taking up the table time slot they like.

 

[kingslug]

I would rather eat at home...the service is usually....better.