Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[abc]

2 closed because the lead chef or the owner died of covid.

Sad to hear that.

A couple of others chose to close because the rent was high and it did not make sence to hang on with no end in site.

That's unusual. Several of my favorite establishments (not just restaurants) owners all reported their landlord had offered to lower their rent to keep them there. After all, who else can the landlord rent it to? So it's entirely up to the business owner whether they see a business post pandemic or not.

One owner decided to retire. But it was taken over by one of his worker instead of closing down.

 

[deadheadskier]

How to Make an Unloved Job More Attractive? Restaurants Tinker With Wages.

Long before the pandemic persuaded so many restaurant employees to abandon the business, Corrinna Stum chafed at the illogic of the pay. She started as a server at age 15, and quickly discovered how stressful it could be to earn only the federal minimum wage for tipped employees (now $2.13 an...

www.yahoo.com

Its hard to say whether the movement away from tipping will improve things. You would have to have serious differences in hourly rates for wait staff. When I went back to school a decade ago and took a server job to pay my bills, I averaged $35/hr. Lesser experienced servers at the same restaurant would make half that as they didn't know how to sell wine and high end spirits. They also couldn't handle the same volume of customers.

 

[abc]

lol. no. you are def the asshole in this one. don't eat out if you don't respect the hard work of the people cooking and serving the food and maintaining the space.\

a $10 buffet sounds like a good fit for you.

I'm surprised, you live in Brooklyn, you should have plenty example of "non-service oriented" neighborhood restaurant that serve food that put the Vermont "fine dining" restaurants to shame!

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i live in brooklyn. i respect the hard work of the staff at my corner diner as much as I respect the hard work of the staff at peter luger or lilia. i respect the hard work of the staff at peter luger and lilia as much as I respect the hard work of the staff at hen of the wood or prohibition pig. because a restaurant is in NYC doesn't mean the staff is working any more or less hard than restaurants in Waterbury vermont.

your position on this issue is fucking trash. it takes money and effort and energy and work to prepare and serve customers their dinner. again, there are plenty of cheap buffets and fast food restaurants that seem like the right fit for you.

 

[abc]

Sadly, you can't tell the difference between working hard with working pointlessly.

 

[deadheadskier]

You're your usual narrow minded, stuck in your own world self.

Your "fine dining experience" better than someone who live in New York City? Yeah, right! LOL

Your experience of "being served" is what you're delusional of and confused with "dining". You show your "respect" by "tipping generously". Yes, I've already described your kind in the last part of my post which you didn't bother to finish reading before you post!

I worked in the business operationally for about 15 years and then sold high end meats and specialty foods to the highest rated restaurants in Boston and throughout New England for another 4. I count a half dozen James Beard winning chefs as good friends. Met and networked with many of their peers in Manhattan.

I don't give a shit if you eat at La Bernardin five nights a week and get take out the other two from 11 Madison Park you stuck up NYC snob. You're clearly f'n clueless about the industry and it shows massively with your posts here.

Stay home.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Sadly, you can't tell the difference between working hard with working pointlessly.

so go eat at a fucking soulless automat. I'll continue supporting my local restaurants and the people who make them wonderful

 

[abc]

I would say sticking to takeout is a wise choice for you given the information you believe above.

I've said that in my post which you responded too. But thanks for reiterated it for highlight.

Your ideology, of providing employment for wait staff whether it's needed or not, won't be affected by people who order take out. And your proposal, of making eating out more expensive, isn't going to make more such employment opportunities.

Moreover, you're not only reducing the opportunity of wait staff, your proposal will also eliminate many such employment for the kitchen staff too.

 

[abc]

so go eat at a fucking soulless automat. I'll continue supporting my local restaurants and the people who make them wonderful

Don't forget to tell your waiter part of your tip is for their entertainment value.

 

[dblskifanatic]

This opinion might be unpopular to restaurant owners, but honestly it has become an overheated and undervalued experience and serious contraction is probably needed for the long term health of the industry and it's workers / wages.

Americans simply have developed unreasonable expectations for cheap and easy prepared food. In 1955, 25 cents of every dollar spent on food was in restaurants. In 2018 that number was 53.5 cents of every dollar. Now there are a lot of factors that go into it. Obviously the biggest one is more two income households today. Families have less free time to cook. But if dining out wasn't so cheap, they'd find the time.

Dining out should be significantly more expensive than what it is. There should be far fewer restaurants and those that work in the industry should be paid significantly better. We are starting to see that today. A bit of a reset. It's painful for the owners losing their businesses due to lack of staffing, but the good ones will still thrive. Survival of the fittest.

Well I beg to differ on prices. Went to the seaport district in Boston. Many restaurants there where prices are pretty high and the restaurants are all packed. We were there on Saturday. The shear number of people there was crazy. Masks were required to enter buildings. But a Beer garden put up by Cisco Brewing was very large and packed shoulder to shoulder and no one had a face mask on, Once in the building tables are no longer socially distant and you can also sit at a bar shoulder to shoulder. That is where the messaging is messed up. Why only when walking in. Does not make sense.

So one example a Shrimp Cocktail was $32 at Ocean Prime and in Milton about 20 minutes away at a nice restaurant it is $16

As far as dining out - there are many Applebee's, Long Horn's, Red Lobster's, etc that are mid priced and those are dishes that can be taken out but a 10-15 minute drive does not lend well. And as always there are plenty of low priced fast food places that I am not a fan of. We do not even go to the chain restaurant either.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Let's pick tomorrow's topic to argue about in this thread by say 3 PM. That way we all have time to prepare properly

 

[ThatGuy]

Let's pick tomorrow's topic to argue about in this thread by say 3 PM. That way we all have time to prepare properly

Ill have anecdotal sources and ad hominem attacks ready

 

[deadheadskier]

So one example a Shrimp Cocktail was $32 at Ocean Prime and in Milton about 20 minutes away at a nice restaurant it is $16

There's nothing too trivial about that. Ocean Prime's rent is likely triple what a restaurant in Milton pays. They probably have to pay all their staff 25-50% more to entice them to work downtown where the commute is longer and more costly. They also could be using a higher quality ingredient (fresh gulf vs frozen Asian farmed). Lastly, the demand is likely higher so their clientele is willing to pay more.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Ill have anecdotal sources and ad hominem attacks ready

 

[abc]

There's nothing too trivial about that. Ocean Prime's rent is likely triple what a restaurant in Milton pays. They probably have to pay all their staff 25-50% more to entice them to work downtown where the commute is longer and more costly.

Bingo!

Any patron's "fine dining" experience in downtown Boston includes the high rent and commute cost of its wait staff! That's got nothing to do with the "experience".

The wait staff probably work similarly hard in both places. Take out takes all that out.

They also could be using a higher quality ingredient (fresh gulf vs frozen Asian farmed).

Which most likely taste better too. That I'm quite happy to pay extra for.

 

[drjeff]

There's nothing too trivial about that. Ocean Prime's rent is likely triple what a restaurant in Milton pays. They probably have to pay all their staff 25-50% more to entice them to work downtown where the commute is longer and more costly. They also could be using a higher quality ingredient (fresh gulf vs frozen Asian farmed). Lastly, the demand is likely higher so their clientele is willing to pay more.

Bingo!

It's just like how (and yes this isn't a fine dining option by any means) that McDonalds burger or Starbucks Coffee will cost you more when you buy them at an Interstate highway rest area location or an airport terminal location than it will at a free standing location in a less populated area. The rent matters and certainly plays into a portion of the final price of the product

 

[VTKilarney]

Just clueless and quite frankly, massively disrespectful to those who work in the trade.

One problem with this discussion is that it has blended finer dining establishments with casual restaurants.

The notion that waiters are necessary is simply not true. Japan, for example, has several restaurant models that have no wait staff as we know it. Do you get the same service? No. But the people eating in these restaurants are willing to trade that for affordability. And millions of people have decided that it's a fair trade.

The bottom line is that restaurant employees are paid what the market will bear. You can wish all you want that they make more, but something has to give for that to happen - whether it be prices or more automation.

Does an Applebees waiter work hard? Yes. But the simple truth is that it is a low-skill job and they are easily replaced. The skill that you bring to your job has a huge impact on the wages that you earn. I don't see socialization of the restaurant industry as a priority.

Also, if people are spending more of their food budget on dining out, how do you just assume that dining out is cheaper? You can't infer that from the single data point.

The trend I see is this: When I was a kid there were tons of cheap coffee shop and diner style restaurants. The food was simple - think a cup of soup and a tuna sandwich for lunch. Those restaurants are largely gone - and have been replaced by Chipotle counter-service restaurants and low end fast casual restaurants.

Now the non-chain locally owned restaurants tend to be more expensive than the coffee shops and diners of old. As others have mentioned, a family of four can drop $150 easily on a very uninspiring meal. The good news for wait staff is that the average check has gone up - and so has the average tip. Tipping 15% on the pre-tax bill used to be the norm. Tipping 20% was practically unheard of - let alone 25%. So wait staff have a de facto raise over the years.

 

[deadheadskier]

If so inclined, I'm sure I could find stats showing a great increase in not just dollars spent, but the frequency of prepared meals consumed today vs the past. People simply are eating out more and expect it for cheap even though that results in wages barely above poverty for millions of workers.

There certainly can be some automation at the lower tiers of food service. I'm not against it entirely. We see that in many industries, including law which I'm sure you know.

 

[cdskier]

If so inclined, I'm sure I could find stats showing a great increase in not just dollars spent, but the frequency of prepared meals consumed today vs the past. People simply are eating out more and expect it for cheap even though that results in wages barely above poverty for millions of workers.

There certainly can be some automation at the lower tiers of food service. I'm not against it entirely. We see that in many industries, including law which I'm sure you know.

I'd agree and wouldn't at all be surprised to see the stats back that up.

Anecdotally, I can certainly say it seems a lot of people I know nowadays do absolutely eat out (or get takeout) far more often than when I was a kid. When I was a kid, my mom always cooked and for the most part most of my friends' parents always cooked nearly every night as well. Going out to eat was a rare treat when I was a kid.

 

[abc]

The notion that waiters are necessary is simply not true. Japan, for example, has several restaurant models that have no wait staff as we know it. Do you get the same service? No. But the people eating in these restaurants are willing to trade that for affordability. And millions of people have decided that it's a fair trade.

Careful, many on this thread would call you heartless, for taking the hard working waiter's job away!

One problem with this discussion is that it has blended finer dining establishments with casual restaurants.

This is a ski forum. People are just pretending they know something others don't and toss out statement casually.

You're quite right. There're a lot of different type of restaurants. Some where the waiter serves a significant added value. Many others, no more than a tray carrying robot.