Pico Will Not Operate 7 Days A Week

[threecy]

Agreed. Based on skiable terrain, Powdr would have to be investing $10-$12M to be comparable to Peak's $7M.

Compared to ASC's $0 (well, they'd claim a few million for painting a lodge, adding a daycare program, and moving a few snowmaking pipes), $3m is pretty significant. Often, when a business in trouble is acquired, there is a spending freeze - SP/Powdr has instead decided to pour in another 3% over their purchase price in their first season.

A new HS 6 Pack next year would make this whole investment argument a moot point, that's how trivial and shortsighted this is.

 

[threecy]

All I'm doing is playing the part of the new owner

I find it pretty funny that I've been sticking up so much for Killington when it's just about my least favorite ski area in Vermont!

 

[JimG.]

If we stop complaining, then we are reduced to endless "who are your 5 favorite lift operators" polls. I'll take the complaining.

Please don't stop; it's the whole purpose of me giving you posts to scream at. I want to analyze what they are doing and give the opportunity for folks to vent. And I hope they see it too.

I do understand what they are doing. They are making tough, unpopular choices. They have alienated alot of regulars/locals. They have resisted the easy PR windfalls. There must be a reason. There must be a plan.

If there isn't, they will fail. And they need to address you folks who love the place but who are utterly disgusted.

I totally understand.

 

[Greg]

Compared to ASC's $0 (well, they'd claim a few million for painting a lodge, adding a daycare program, and moving a few snowmaking pipes), $3m is pretty significant. Often, when a business in trouble is acquired, there is a spending freeze - SP/Powdr has instead decided to pour in another 3% over their purchase price in their first season.

A new HS 6 Pack next year would make this whole investment argument a moot point, that's how trivial and shortsighted this is.

Well, you brought it up. I'm not trying to diminish Powdr's investment into the mountain. I'm just pointing out that your comparison was not accurate.

 

[JimG.]

I find it pretty funny that I've been sticking up so much for Killington when it's just about my least favorite ski area in Vermont!

Went there once last season, April 29.

Not my favorite place to ski, never has been.

But I believe it is a benchmark for alot of ski area operations in the east. Has any other ski area been talked about as much this off season (or any other off season)?

As such, what happens is important to the region. And folks need to be able to direct their ire at specific points of discussion I (and apparently you) are more than willing to supply.

I'm fascinated by the very deep seated feelings that have been exposed. The new owners have alot of issues to address.

 

[threecy]

I left out the base facilities portion of it which skews it a bit, but still 3m vs 4m isn't that big a difference...though KMart is bigger than Mt. Snow, they are both in a destination resort league.

 

[Greg]

I left out the base facilities portion of it which skews it a bit, but still 3m vs 4m isn't that big a difference...though KMart is bigger than Mt. Snow, they are both in a destination resort league.

The $3M is for both Killington and Pico so I think it's fair to include Attitash with Mount Snow to come up with $7M and a better comparison.

And feel free to write me a check for $1M if you don't think that's a significant number.

 

[threecy]

The $3M is for both Killington and Pico so I think it's fair to include Attitash with Mount Snow to come up with $7M and a better comparison.

And feel free to write me a check for $1M if you don't think that's a significant number.

I'll gladly write you a check for $1m if the critics in here write me a check for $3m, since its not a significant number

 

[Greg]

I'll gladly write you a check for $1m if the critics in here write me a check for $3m, since its not a significant number

Touché. But wouldn't you rather have $7M?

 

[threecy]

Touché. But wouldn't you rather have $7M?

Yes, especially for two separate destination resorts instead of one and its ugly step child

 

[snowman]

SP/Powdr could have very easily shut down Pico except for weekends and holidays, jacked up the day price at K-Mart to $85 and the entry level season pass to $1000, and not put a dime back into each mountain - and still made a profit. They didn't. They put an INITIAL investment of 3.5 million into the area and get tarred and feathered, while Peak puts in 2.5 million into Mt. Snow (Haystack CLOSED) and gets praised.

Just to set the record stright, Peak didn't close Haystack and don't even own it!

So much whining. Everyone here had an opportunity to buy Killington and run it the 'right' way. Only SP/Powdr were able to put up an ample amount of money to do so. At the end of the day, they own the area/rights. Stop complaining and either go ski or go ski elsewhere. They're there to run a business, not a charity

I already covered this more bluntly with STOP YOUR BITCHING! :beer:

Could someone direct me to the beating a dead horse smilie?? This thread needed it back around page 9! :razz:

 

[nycskier]

I think long term there are a lot of improvements that can be made to Killington. I know we talked about the Interconnect and maybe putting lights on Pico.

Also replacing Snowdon with a HSQ and maybe even putting in a lift that goes all the way to the top of Ramshead.

Even little things like improving the quality of food in the lodge, increasing snow making and keeping and creating special events and concerts at Killington.

There is a lot that can be done to make the place better. So far we haven't heard anything from Powdr about what they plan to do other than what they plan to cut.

I know it is early, but they are asking us to give them money early for a season pass. Would be nice to know what improvements they plan to make.

 

[threecy]

I know it is early, but they are asking us to give them money early for a season pass. Would be nice to know what improvements they plan to make.

I'd say it's fair to assume they'll not be doing anything noticable this season. If I were considering a season pass there, that's the assumption I'd make. Same ski area, shorter season.

 

[threecy]

Just to set the record stright, Peak didn't close Haystack and don't even own it!

Yep, but just need to point out that Haystack is a smaller version of Pico - it could be a lot worse than losing two days a week when no one's around.

 

[thebigo]

I think long term there are a lot of improvements that can be made to Killington. I know we talked about the Interconnect and maybe putting lights on Pico.

Also replacing Snowdon with a HSQ and maybe even putting in a lift that goes all the way to the top of Ramshead.

Even little things like improving the quality of food in the lodge, increasing snow making and keeping and creating special events and concerts at Killington.

There is a lot that can be done to make the place better. So far we haven't heard anything from Powdr about what they plan to do other than what they plan to cut.

I know it is early, but they are asking us to give them money early for a season pass. Would be nice to know what improvements they plan to make.

Killington needs a bevy of improvements but I would put a high speed lift in place of skye quad at the top of the list. The point you make is valid. POWDR has increased the price without giving any indication that they will improve the product. For those of us without existing financial ties to the place it does not make sense to purchase a $1000 pass. Rather than a $1000 pass for me and the old lady we can purchase two granite passes and one nh resident cannon pass. That is a perfect combination for us.

The larger question is real estate. POWDR/SP need to sell real estate to have any chance of recovering their investment. It appears from the outside that they do not realize that they have to cater to skiers to sell real estate. We are in the market for a ski condo but decided to wait one more year to see how everything shakes out. Last year at this time we were considering killington but it is far less appealing now. If Boyne offers a reciprocal pass with the loaf and discounts at brighton and big sky, than sunday river becomes far more appealing.

I agree much of this is knee-jerk but at the same time a vacation home is a major investment for most people. Second most expensive thing you'll buy in your life. You have to feel good about it when making your decision and POWDR has not left any room to feel good about Killington.

 

[JimG.]

For those of us without existing financial ties to the place it does not make sense to purchase a $1000 pass. Rather than a $1000 pass for me and the old lady we can purchase two granite passes and one nh resident cannon pass. That is a perfect combination for us.

I agree much of this is knee-jerk but at the same time a vacation home is a major investment for most people. Second most expensive thing you'll buy in your life. You have to feel good about it when making your decision and POWDR has not left any room to feel good about Killington.

Sounds like you would be better off with the NH passes anyway. Why even consider Killington?

A vacation home is a volatile investment and should be carefully considered. It should not be purchased as an investment per se but rather as a second home. Buying it to make money off of it is stressful. Again, if NH is perfect for you and your family, why look at K?

You do have to feel good about the purchase. It's funny, 4 months ago everyone was screaming for ASC's head and most folks would have been glad to have anyone other than ASC running Killington. POWDR has owned it for 2 months and people are more down on them than ASC and ASC and their part in this tragedy have been totally forgotten.

And POWDR hasn't even owned it long enough to see a snowflake fly.

 

[thebigo]

We have had passes at killington for five years now. We have friends in the area that we turned into skiers. We have other sets of friends that bought passes up there over the last few years. We have skiied over 150 days there over that time period. In other words we have a connection to the place.

With that said the nh passes make much more sense this year. Crotched at a 45 minute drive is a great value, we can rely on both Crotched and Attitash to make snow when times are lean and when we do get snow Cannon is as good as anyplace.

I used the term investment reffering to both time and resources not expectations of a monetary return. The point was that SP/POWDR needs to sell real estate to survive and they seem to forget that the skiers are the same people purchasing the real estate.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

It's funny, 4 months ago everyone was screaming for ASC's head and most folks would have been glad to have anyone other than ASC running Killington. POWDR has owned it for 2 months and people are more down on them than ASC and ASC and their part in this tragedy have been totally forgotten.

And POWDR hasn't even owned it long enough to see a snowflake fly.

Aw, c'mon Jim, give yourself some credit, you haven't let anyone forget about ASC's part in all of this...or anything bad for that matter...they're probably the ones behind global warming too!

 

[JimG.]

Aw, c'mon Jim, give yourself some credit, you haven't let anyone forget about ASC's part in all of this...or anything bad for that matter...they're probably the ones behind global warming too!

It's nice to be appreciated and well understood.

POWDR is starting out behind the 8 ball and ASC is to blame for that.

Unfortunately, they've done nothing yet to polish their image and if anything have scratched on every shot so far.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

POWDR is starting out behind the 8 ball and ASC is to blame for that.

Sorry, but according to some of your own logic regarding ownership of property at Pico, Powdr can't blame ASC for anything...they bought the mtn on their own initiative, ASC didn't force them to buy it, didn't pretend there were all sorts of new lodges and fantastic improvements all over the place...they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into right from the start...they have no one to blame but themselves...that may even be a quote from one of your earlier posts. :smile: Do I get to say caveat emptor again? ;-)