Powdr is going FastPass at Copper, K, Snowbird and Bachelor

[thetrailboss]

POWDR responds. I still think that this is another self-inflicted PR wound.

Fast Tracks Raises Storm of Controversy, Powdr Responds - Ski Area Management

SAM Magazine—Park City, Utah, Oct. 15, 2021—After Powdr launched its new Fast Tracks pay-for-faster-lift-access program, reaction from skiers and snowboarders was swift—and largely negative. In response to the feedback, Powdr posted “A letter to the community regarding Fast Tracks” from...

www.saminfo.com

 

[KustyTheKlown]

wow @ allowing refunds over this

 

[Nick]

If you have plenty of disposable income I guess this is great but I really despise the pay to play thing going on guised as a consumer benefit which is rest just another profit center. same thing with airlines charging to check a bag or pay to win in video games. where is the Southwest Airlines of the ski industry?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yup..no such thing now. Vail is slowly (not for the better) changing Stowe. More conservative with openings for one thing. Last season they took a long time to open the gondi side. And they close stuff they deem ....dangerous. But whatever..they own the place now..

This is actually the worst part, the Vail definition of, "dangerous", is far more liberal than pretty much anyone's definition.

 

[skiur]

Mike on kzone:


I know there has been a lot of discussion here about the release of the fast tracks program.

I continue to be blown away by the passion you all share for Killington. I must remind you though, you aren’t alone. I along with the rest of the Killington team and Powdr share the same passion for making The Beast the best it can be, and I want to assure you that many of your fears about what Fast Tracks means for Killington aren’t reality. But I can understand the concerns without all of the details.

This reminds me of when we announced parking reservations. There was a lot of concern from season pass holders about how they might not get access to use their pass. I asked you then to trust that we had a solid plan for managing access in a way that didn’t have a significant impact on your ability to use your pass and we delivered. Last year we were able to manage our volume and never ended up having to restrict anyone from skiing (not all resorts can say that), so I ask that you give us the benefit of the doubt and judge us by our past actions.

I’m asking again today that you trust that we will manage and operate Fast Tracks in a manner that has very little impact on our guests who don’t choose the upgrade. We will achieve this by having very limited quantities of Fast Tracks available daily, generally less than 2% of total skiers. This also ensures those who do choose to add Fast Tracks get maximum value from their upgrade.

I’m confident that throughout the season you will see little impact to lift wait times as we implement Fast Tracks. Nevertheless, if you would like a season pass refund before the season starts as a result of our Fast Tracks product, we will honor that request.

We’re closely eyeing a cold snap forecasted for Sunday night into Monday and will be prepared to green light snowmaking operations for the coming winter season should the temperatures materialize. I’m looking forward to joining you all in making the first turns of the season on Rime soon.

Powdr co-presidents Wade and Justin have written a letter to the communities in which Fast Tracks is planned and I encourage you to read it. https://www.powdr.com/news/powdr-news/a ... 5DWRjl-j9E

Thanks
Mike
Michael Solimano

 

[ThatGuy]

Surprising they are actually offering a refund for people over fast tracks. Doubt many will utilize that option even after all the complaints.

 

[Edd]

Surprising they are actually offering a refund for people over fast tracks. Doubt many will utilize that option even after all the complaints.

It’s the right move, and the number of customers that actually pull the trigger on a refund is bound to be insignificant, I agree.

 

[ss20]

It’s the right move, and the number of customers that actually pull the trigger on a refund is bound to be insignificant, I agree.

I disagree. I think it will be small, but not insignificant.

What's interesting in Mike's note is he said it'll be capped at roughly 2% of daily skier visits. On Killington's most insane Saturday of the year that's roughly 15,000 people. That's 300 people with a Fast Pass. 10 lifts at Killinton will have Fast Pass lanes. Let's go conservative and say 250/300 of those people will be skiing at a time...that's 25 Fast Pass people per lift. That's not exactly insignificant. Going conservative again we'll say it takes 10 minutes for a lift ride up and 10 minutes to get down... that's a Fast Tracks person entering the lift queue roughly every 45 seconds. So in a 20 minute lift line you'll see about 30 people cut in front of you.

smdh

 

[deadheadskier]

So call it 90 people an hour. When those lifts move between 2400-3k skiers an hour, I certainly wouldn't particularly care. Folks who are regulars at K know how to navigate the mountain to avoid the worst of the crowds.

I don't support the program, but I think folks getting as pissed as they are is a little amusing.

 

[ThatGuy]

Next being able to access the lift itself will be a pass add-on

 

[ss20]

So call it 90 people an hour. When those lifts move between 2400-3k skiers an hour, I certainly wouldn't particularly care. Folks who are regulars at K know how to navigate the mountain to avoid the worst of the crowds.

I don't support the program, but I think folks getting as pissed as they are is a little amusing.

There's a lot of ways to look at it.

What about the weekend powder days when fast pass people can get 2 runs in before you're even off the chair?

What about the passholders who ski the (roughly) 100 days the Fast Pass is active. A couple extra minutes of waiting per day isn't much but it adds up over the course of the season for everyday skiers....and K certainly has a lot of those.

 

[deadheadskier]

If I were skiing 100 days a season, very few of them would be on weekends and holidays.

 

[djd66]

I disagree. I think it will be small, but not insignificant.

What's interesting in Mike's note is he said it'll be capped at roughly 2% of daily skier visits. On Killington's most insane Saturday of the year that's roughly 15,000 people. That's 300 people with a Fast Pass. 10 lifts at Killinton will have Fast Pass lanes. Let's go conservative and say 250/300 of those people will be skiing at a time...that's 25 Fast Pass people per lift. That's not exactly insignificant. Going conservative again we'll say it takes 10 minutes for a lift ride up and 10 minutes to get down... that's a Fast Tracks person entering the lift queue roughly every 45 seconds. So in a 20 minute lift line you'll see about 30 people cut in front of you.

smdh

When are there consistently 20 min lift lines at Killington? And if you ski killington on a regular basis, you know where to ski to avoid a line.

This is not a big deal and personally I welcome this as an option.

 

[ss20]

When are there consistently 20 min lift lines at Killington? And if you ski killington on a regular basis, you know where to ski to avoid a line.

This is not a big deal and personally I welcome this as an option.

It's not consistent I said on the peak Saturdays when there's 15,000+ people on the hill.

Even when the mountain is busy but not at its peak it's still 15 minutes for the k1, ramshead, snowdon, and Skye peak lifts at peak times.

Yes, most regulars can avoid the crowd

 

[DoublePlanker]

This is a big nothing. Who cares? Sounds like smart business to offer such an upgrade. I, for one, would never pay it.

 

[Tonyr]

Now they don't open Goat until later in the day...Big difference from SB that just opens runs and let you decide. One way Vail has changed the place.

Yes but there are so many never closed sidecountry trails at Stowe that you barely even need to be on the mapped runs. Goat or Starr becomes an after thought. If they happen to be opened I'll ski them otherwise it's no loss.

 

[FBGM]

Late to the convo here so apologizes if this was mentioned - Park City (under Powdurrrr) had this in place for years. I think they got rid of it like 2014 or maybe even still had it when they lost the ski area. It was a non issue. Hardly ever anyone in the fast pass line.

Maybe today’s day in age of skiing and money more people will do it?

 

[abc]

I think the reality is, if one lift is crowded,, people just migrated to other lifts that aren't as crowded. Let's face it, a crowded lift is usually accompanied with crowded slopes too. More reason to go elsewhere in the mountain.

The fast track can be helpful in the morning when one need to get up the mountain. Other times, the benefit just isn't all that big. Also, I'd say the vast majority of skiers just don't care. Standing in line, chit chatting with friends. The wait time just passes unnoticed. (then, there's the single's line, where you can still hang with your friends while in line. Just not sitting on the same chair)

People talk about powder days. Yes, I can see that being the focal point. But only in the first hour. Sure, you may eve get twice the runs in. But the rest of the day, you're not getting a whole lot of benefits. So how many people are willing to pay $50 to ski twice as many runs for the first hour of the day?

 

[thetrailboss]

Late to the convo here so apologizes if this was mentioned - Park City (under Powdurrrr) had this in place for years. I think they got rid of it like 2014 or maybe even still had it when they lost the ski area. It was a non issue. Hardly ever anyone in the fast pass line.

Maybe today’s day in age of skiing and money more people will do it?

I will be surprised if it is used in big numbers. I think it will crash and burn ultimately.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think the reality is, if one lift is crowded,, people just migrated to other lifts that aren't as crowded. Let's face it, a crowded lift is usually accompanied with crowded slopes too. More reason to go elsewhere in the mountain.

The fast track can be helpful in the morning when one need to get up the mountain. Other times, the benefit just isn't all that big. Also, I'd say the vast majority of skiers just don't care. Standing in line, chit chatting with friends. The wait time just passes unnoticed. (then, there's the single's line, where you can still hang with your friends while in line. Just not sitting on the same chair)

People talk about powder days. Yes, I can see that being the focal point. But only in the first hour. Sure, you may eve get twice the runs in. But the rest of the day, you're not getting a whole lot of benefits. So how many people are willing to pay $50 to ski twice as many runs for the first hour of the day?

True, but almost all of Snowbird's lifts will have this Fastcrap.