Resurgence of Mom and Pop resorts???

[deadheadskier]

With the death of the great season pass deals and significant price hikes with cutting of services at many of the major players in the Northeast; do you think we'll see a resurgance of the mom and pop resorts of yesterday?

It seems that for decades, NELSAP's list has grown and grown as the industry has consolidated to fewer and fewer areas. I think this was in part to a number of the larger resorts providing somewhat affordable products that enticed skiers away from the mom and pop areas.

I think we could see a least a minor resurgence of the local mom and pop hills in the next several years. We've already seen some of it. The re-birth of Crotched is one example that comes to mind. I think there's a lot of opportunity for some of the NELSAP resorts to arise from the dead in today's ski business climate.

In addition to the business climate, I think trends favor their awakening and survival, most specifically the explosion in interest in park riding. Park riding doesn't require much vert nor fancy high speed lifts etc. It does require significant snowmaking and some technical grooming, but even at that the costs are far less than grooming a cruisers paradise as the sheer acreage is so much less.

So, do you think we may see a resurgence in the Mom and Pop areas in the coming years???

 

[wa-loaf]

You're not going to see any new ones, but it seems enough have already been Nelsaped that the business is consolidating on the surviving small hills and they are doing better.

 

[spooner]

My hope would be at the very least the mom & pops that are left will get a higher percentage of skier visits from the dissolving SKI resorts. In an email today Wildcat acknowledged that their season pass sales were 40% ahead of last years. I'm not sure that is any indication at all, but I would rather see Wildcat get the skier visits as opposed to Sunday or K-mart. Thats just my opinion.

Mike

 

[MikeTrainor]

My hope would be at the very least the mom & pops that are left will get a higher percentage of skier visits from the dissolving SKI resorts. In an email today Wildcat acknowledged that their season pass sales were 40% ahead of last years. I'm not sure that is any indication at all, but I would rather see Wildcat get the skier visits as opposed to Sunday or K-mart. Thats just my opinion.

Mike

I wonder if the push to stay open until May 6th last year had anything to do with the increased sales. the push that Wildcat made last year to stay open late really impressed me.

 

[spooner]

Mike, I don't know if it made an impact on pass sales, but I was definitely impressed. That will be among my most memorable days riding ever. p.s. didn't make it to Sunday today...just couldn't do it...maybe Friday...doesn't look like Wildcat will be open in time to get my fix.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

With the death of the great season pass deals and significant price hikes with cutting of services at many of the major players in the Northeast; do you think we'll see a resurgance of the mom and pop resorts of yesterday?

It seems that for decades, NELSAP's list has grown and grown as the industry has consolidated to fewer and fewer areas. I think this was in part to a number of the larger resorts providing somewhat affordable products that enticed skiers away from the mom and pop areas.

I think we could see a least a minor resurgence of the local mom and pop hills in the next several years. We've already seen some of it. The re-birth of Crotched is one example that comes to mind. I think there's a lot of opportunity for some of the NELSAP resorts to arise from the dead in today's ski business climate.

In addition to the business climate, I think trends favor their awakening and survival, most specifically the explosion in interest in park riding. Park riding doesn't require much vert nor fancy high speed lifts etc. It does require significant snowmaking and some technical grooming, but even at that the costs are far less than grooming a cruisers paradise as the sheer acreage is so much less.

So, do you think we may see a resurgence in the Mom and Pop areas in the coming years???

I personally don't see it happening, at least in the northeast. Yes it's relatively inexpensive to purchase a lost ski area. With all the renovations and upkeep to bring an extinct resort to grade along with the unpredictable nature of the weather..it seems like there would be better ways to invest money.

Montage ski area in Scranton PA was recently county run and did poorly and it was sold to a Philly area investment group run by an avid skier with children who ski race. Someone like that would be a good person to buy a lost ski area. Already wealthy and wanted to in a way create their own playground as well as give back to the sport. Infortunately, those types of people are few and far between. Me personally, I'm happy with the number of available ski areas..there are so many places to ski..which is great..sure if there were more places to ski, it would be better, but there are only so many avid skiers/riders..

 

[AdironRider]

Aint gonna happen. Mom and pop places are really only good for quick day trips, night skiing, or beginners. Most skiers have the resources/skill/desire to actually make the trip to a bigger, more challenging mtn.

 

[Trekchick]

Caberfae Peaks is still doing their thing but I often wonder how long they can hold on.

Sad to say, Risk Management/Litigation/Insurance is eating them alive, and that is before you take into account the lack of snow the past few seasons.

 

[Warp Daddy]

Unfortunately skiing by the actions of teh BIG BOYZ will continue to become even more elitist as the Destination resorts continue to MILK discretionery income from those who have it . Some seem more interested in REAL ESTATE development than returning "good sking value" for the $$ . Even tho i personally can afford it this strategy i find it disturbing

This "champagne -effect" pricing strategy( If ones pays more IT MUST BE BETTER) appeals to those who CAN------------ but will not doubt serve to limit skiing's future by precluding many young families( even with 2 incomes) , from trying our sport out . It is that very market that the mom and pops serve and we need to continue to assure that they survive - albeit not inctreasing in number but at least able to survive

 

[billski]

The only way I could see a startup is cooperative ownership, a-la MRG. They would have to suck up an existing area, since the environmental requirements are tough and anything with real estate development potential is too expensive.

To do this, you would have to find a very tenacious, dedicated group of multi-talented people willing to put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it. Very difficult to find in this busy world.

 

[tcharron]

In addition to the business climate, I think trends favor their awakening and survival, most specifically the explosion in interest in park riding. Park riding doesn't require much vert nor fancy high speed lifts etc. It does require significant snowmaking and some technical grooming, but even at that the costs are far less than grooming a cruisers paradise as the sheer acreage is so much less.

So, do you think we may see a resurgence in the Mom and Pop areas in the coming years???

Hrm, interesting. I would have to say No, but on the other hand...

It'd be interesting to see some of the existing areas that have skateboard parks, possibly reopen some of the old tow rope town hills as boarding parks.

 

[AdironRider]

The park argument doesnt fly IMO, look at the recent revival of Whaleback. Last I checked they dont seem to be doing to well.

 

[tcharron]

The park argument doesnt fly IMO, look at the recent revival of Whaleback. Last I checked they dont seem to be doing to well.

Doing well is a matter of perspective. They're still in business, and it appears they will stay that way for the foreseeable future. What makes you feel they're not 'doing well'?

 

[AdironRider]

Have you been to the place? They havent really made any of the improvements they said they would. (Huge indoor skate park, park hits all over the mtn, etc.) Theres never anything there, and they seriously lack in the snowmaking department, which is critical to the whole mainly park thing theyre trying to market themselves as. While they might still be open, they dont seem to be reaping the rewards as a primarily park resort like they originally intended.

 

[tcharron]

Have you been to the place? They havent really made any of the improvements they said they would. (Huge indoor skate park, park hits all over the mtn, etc.) Theres never anything there, and they seriously lack in the snowmaking department, which is critical to the whole mainly park thing theyre trying to market themselves as. While they might still be open, they dont seem to be reaping the rewards as a primarily park resort like they originally intended.

Def good point on what their plans were vs reality. On the other hand, you have resorts like Crotched which do very well for themselves, and generally considered in the same 'family' so to say. Pats Peak is also doing pretty good for themselves. Of course, they didn't have these grandiose ideas compared to Whaleback, and of course, had a bit more money.

 

[jonhere]

I think the cost of snow making is the primary reason skiing is moving away from the mom and pops. I don't see that trend changing anytime soon. In addition it appears the most profitable resorts offer activities all year round. Golf, skiing, weddings, conferences, mountain biking, waterparks, etc... etc..

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I am hoping and they are too, that the $400,000 investment in snowmaking will result in a resurgence at Cochran's ski hill. Awesome little feeder hill used by local families to turn the little ones into life long skiers and maybe even a few more Olympic medals to boot.

http://www.cochranskiarea.com/cochranletter.pdf

 

[arik]

Berkshire East feels like a "mom and pop" type small area, very relaxing and mellow but decent steepness

 

[catskills]

Family owned Plattekill has been able survive on both skiing and mountain biking. Hunter Mountain is a family owned operation that also survives on year round activities.

Like the 10s of 1000s of dairy farms that once dotted NY state, the family owned ski area will be something only in the history books and museums.

Most concerning is the Brodie Mountain business model. Neighboring ski area Jiminy Peak buys out competition ski area only to sell it to real estate corporation with the stipulation it CAN NEVER be a public ski area ever again. This kind business models means less ski able acreage in the future and higher ticket prices.

 

[bvibert]

I doubt that any new areas are going to open, or even re-open. I would like to think that the lack of the ASC passes will divert some of the money back towards the smaller mom and pop type areas. It would be a real shame if all we were left with was a few large McMountains a few years down the road...