Ski Cars

[Glenn]

Bought the wife a big gas guzzling Ford Expedition today, comfort and the big feel for safety outweighs the econmical issue.

Cool! Post some pics of the new ride!

 

[wa-loaf]

I questioned that config also - snows on front and all weathers on back as recently as last November. My tire guy says he has been doing that for years on his own cars without a prob. I personally have had no prob so far. Perhaps long wheelbase, traction control + ABS helps the situation. And I come from a long line of Italian rally car drivers....

Yea - everywhere anyone is gonna research on the Internet says to put four on. Maybe I just have been lucky. If I don't buy a Subie I will get two more snow tires, OK?

Back when I was driving POS cars (usually old golfs and jettas) I always cheaped out and put just snows on the front. Never had an issue with the back slipping out.

 

[Glenn]

Back when I was driving POS cars (usually old golfs and jettas) I always cheaped out and put just snows on the front. Never had an issue with the back slipping out.

You weren't pulling the e-brake hard enough. :grin:

Used to love hitting unplowed parkinglots in my old Jetta.

 

[wa-loaf]

You weren't pulling the e-brake hard enough. :grin:

Used to love hitting unplowed parkinglots in my old Jetta.

Edit: the rear never slipped out unintentionally. :beer:

 

[air0rmc]

Back to the beginning post of this thread - Thinnmann has been minivanning snowcountry since breeding 15 years ago. With snow tires on front and decent all-weathers in back, I am usually passing the shorter-wheelbase SUV's with my full size Town & Country on the NY Thruway when heading up in snow. I can't remember ever losing rear end traction on any snow or rain compromised roadway with this configuration. I guess I drive fairly carefully in those conditions. Rear end skids cause the real problems on the road - have read your best tires should be on the rear of your vehicle for this very reason. Traction trouble comes when I have to go up a frozen slanted driveway a few times per year.

For me, this validates the value of tires over AWD, as many posters have noted.

Check me on this, AZers: I notice in Colorado, just about every ski resort town's taxi service uses FWD Chrysler minivans.

Studless compound snows or studded snows on the front only can be a dangerous combo especialy in slush.More importantly it will very negatively impact the performance of safety features like EBFD,ESP and even affects ABS.It will impact ESP and EBFD so much that they could be rendered pretty much useless on certain surfaces.Traveling at winter highway speed on snow and just small patches of slush your rear tires will be behaving differently and the next thing you know your in a yaw with little chance of recovery.Bumper to bumper at even speeds as low as 45mph on 87,91 or the thruway or any road could ruin your day......I would spring for 2 more tires, plus seasonal changing is more uniform (summer tires and winter tires wear evenly and are purchased in sets of 4 wich translates into $$.$$).This is a good safe rule of thumb.An AWD car in all but a fiew areas of the North East will be fine with high performance all season's.Dedicated snows are a waste unless 85% or better travel on snow,slush and ice all winter.FWD will be fine in 60% of the North East w/high perf all seasons.Dedicated snows on FWD are awsome infact comparable to AWD w/all seasons mabe even a little better traction and breaking wise but when the road clears up they are noisy and very unpredictable at highway speed and unless high end not rated for the speeds we all like to travel.This is all ofcoarse just my opinion but is what i have observed over 15 yrs of 35-45k a year.Traveling these roads spending sometimes around 1000.00 annualy on tires for two cars.I wish I could Ski like I could drive....

 

[2Planker]

Audi S4 w/ Blizzak's all round, and a Thule box

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Audi S4 w/ Blizzak's all round, and a Thule box

you have reached Baller status..

 

[air0rmc]

Audi S4 w/ Blizzak's all round, and a Thule box

That is a sweet setup...! How does it ride with the blizzaks ? Are they ws-60's ? What size are you using

 

[WJenness]

Audi S4 w/ Blizzak's all round, and a Thule box

^My next car.

Which version S4 do you have? B5? B6? B7?

I'm hoping to get the B8 when they drop next year. We'll see.

-w

 

[AdironRider]

To bad Audis are just more expensive versions of VW crap, meaning serious maintenance costs come 70-80k and up.

Honestly, theres nothing better for a ski car than an American made SUV or Truck for several reasons.

1) They're big, comfy, and roomy. America's love affair with the automobile and large proportions caters nicely to the ski crowd. Sure an Outback works great with 2 or 3 people and full gear on a day trip, but start packing in stuff for a full weekend and another person or two and you need at least a box to make the trip bearable. The Foresters are pretty good in terms of interior room, but my girls version (previous generation) only gets 27 on the highway without a box, put the box on and its down to 24. Thats only 2 mpg better than my Jeep Grand Cherokee which gets 22 is better off road, more comfortable, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance meaning I can get through deeper snow.

2) They're rediculously cheap right now. Walk into any Chevy, Ford, or Jeep dealer and they're practically paying you to take an SUV or truck off the lot. The Chevy dealership here in Jackson has brand new Siverado ZR1's going for 21k right now (V8 power, utility, and 20 mpg). Compare that to a comparable Forester at 26-27k that only gets 4mpg better here in ski country. Ill tell you, that V8 comes in mighty handy at elevation on a 17 mile 9% grade like the passes here can throw at you. The 4 bangers in Subies just dont have the juice to make it up those kind of grades at 9000 feet without serious laboring. Say you drive 15k per year, at 3.50 a gallon you're spending $2625 in gas to drive the truck vs. $2187.50 to drive the Forrester. Thats only a 437.50 difference a year, meaning it will take over ten years for you to see the difference in up front cost to purchase the Forrester over the truck, not to mention that the truck will be cheaper to maintain due to it being domestic. Both cars are reliable to begin with, so Ill consider that a push.

3) There is something to be said for utility. A SUV or truck can tow a boat, get through deeper snow due to higher ground clearance, and carry a higher payload. Here in Jackson I tow my drift boat around and over the pass, I haul 2 cords of wood around. I can pack 4 dudes and all their gear inside my Jeep without needing to use a roof rack ... comfortably. 5 comfortably with a rack just for the boards, only costing me 1.5 mpg compared to 3-4 for a Thule box like you would with a Subaru, or other small car. Not to mention a full size SUV or truck is built on a heavy duty truck frame, meaning it can take more punishment without concern. Ive blasted my Jeep through 2 foot ice snowbanks with hardly a shudder, a feat that would send my girls Forrester to the body shop in no time.

For these reasons I will gladly pay an extra 500 bucks a year in gas for all that a full size truck or SUV gives me. But then again, here in Jackson I use them for what theyre intended for every day in the winter, and several times a week in the summer. If you're a single guy who mostly commutes to the city for work on the east coast with the occaisional (1 time a week in the winter) ski trip, get a civic with snows. But if you have a family, or live in the mtns full time, or put the rig to work, its stupid to think you dont need 4x4.

 

[campgottagopee]

To bad Audis are just more expensive versions of VW crap, meaning serious maintenance costs come 70-80k and up.

Honestly, theres nothing better for a ski car than an American made SUV or Truck for several reasons.

1) They're big, comfy, and roomy. America's love affair with the automobile and large proportions caters nicely to the ski crowd. Sure an Outback works great with 2 or 3 people and full gear on a day trip, but start packing in stuff for a full weekend and another person or two and you need at least a box to make the trip bearable. The Foresters are pretty good in terms of interior room, but my girls version (previous generation) only gets 27 on the highway without a box, put the box on and its down to 24. Thats only 2 mpg better than my Jeep Grand Cherokee which gets 22 is better off road, more comfortable, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance meaning I can get through deeper snow.

2) They're rediculously cheap right now. Walk into any Chevy, Ford, or Jeep dealer and they're practically paying you to take an SUV or truck off the lot. The Chevy dealership here in Jackson has brand new Siverado ZR1's going for 21k right now (V8 power, utility, and 20 mpg). Compare that to a comparable Forester at 26-27k that only gets 4mpg better here in ski country. Ill tell you, that V8 comes in mighty handy at elevation on a 17 mile 9% grade like the passes here can throw at you. The 4 bangers in Subies just dont have the juice to make it up those kind of grades at 9000 feet without serious laboring. Say you drive 15k per year, at 3.50 a gallon you're spending $2625 in gas to drive the truck vs. $2187.50 to drive the Forrester. Thats only a 437.50 difference a year, meaning it will take over ten years for you to see the difference in up front cost to purchase the Forrester over the truck, not to mention that the truck will be cheaper to maintain due to it being domestic. Both cars are reliable to begin with, so Ill consider that a push.

3) There is something to be said for utility. A SUV or truck can tow a boat, get through deeper snow due to higher ground clearance, and carry a higher payload. Here in Jackson I tow my drift boat around and over the pass, I haul 2 cords of wood around. I can pack 4 dudes and all their gear inside my Jeep without needing to use a roof rack ... comfortably. 5 comfortably with a rack just for the boards, only costing me 1.5 mpg compared to 3-4 for a Thule box like you would with a Subaru, or other small car. Not to mention a full size SUV or truck is built on a heavy duty truck frame, meaning it can take more punishment without concern. Ive blasted my Jeep through 2 foot ice snowbanks with hardly a shudder, a feat that would send my girls Forrester to the body shop in no time.

For these reasons I will gladly pay an extra 500 bucks a year in gas for all that a full size truck or SUV gives me. But then again, here in Jackson I use them for what theyre intended for every day in the winter, and several times a week in the summer. If you're a single guy who mostly commutes to the city for work on the east coast with the occaisional (1 time a week in the winter) ski trip, get a civic with snows. But if you have a family, or live in the mtns full time, or put the rig to work, its stupid to think you dont need 4x4.

Please look at this:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edm...101081444&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=specs


Pay special attention to ground clearance, interior room, leg room should room even cargo room. I could go on and on about totla cost of ownership, but that will have to be another time when I have some time:wink:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I'd rather have a Suburu of any kind than a Jeep Grand Cherokee..

 

[o3jeff]

If you are like me and don't hold onto a car for more than a couple years, your gonna want to look at the resale values which will leave a lot of domestic cars out.

 

[AdironRider]

I dont need to go to Edmunds.com to know the truth. I own a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and drive a 2008 silverado 2500HD all summer for work, and my girlfriend of 5 years owns a Subaru Forrester. Ive lived and worked with all of these rigs extensively and know their benefits and limitations. The forrester is a good car, but gets 24 mpg in the real world and I cannot fit as much stuff in it as I can in my Jeep regardless of what they say the interior room is. I know Ive blasted through 2 foot snowbanks in my Jeep that the Forrester wouldnt get through, and Ive made it down 12" plus roads without a problem in the Jeep to get to my girls Subaru that was stuck. Need more real world experience? Numbers on a website dont tell anywhere near the whole story.

Ill conceed resale values arent as high, but I drive my cars till theyre worth no more than a grand anyway, so its a moot point to me. But if you are the type who needs the newest and best every 3-5 years or so, foreign cars do have better resale values.

 

[campgottagopee]

I dont need to go to Edmunds.com to know the truth. I own a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and drive a 2008 silverado 2500HD all summer for work, and my girlfriend of 5 years owns a Subaru Forrester. Ive lived and worked with all of these rigs extensively and know their benefits and limitations. The forrester is a good car, but gets 24 mpg in the real world and I cannot fit as much stuff in it as I can in my Jeep regardless of what they say the interior room is. I know Ive blasted through 2 foot snowbanks in my Jeep that the Forrester wouldnt get through, and Ive made it down 12" plus roads without a problem in the Jeep to get to my girls Subaru that was stuck. Need more real world experience? Numbers on a website dont tell anywhere near the whole story.

Ill conceed resale values arent as high, but I drive my cars till theyre worth no more than a grand anyway, so its a moot point to me. But if you are the type who needs the newest and best every 3-5 years or so, foreign cars do have better resale values.

You were touting about ground clearance and interior room----truth=blinders??? Numbers don't lie, they tell the truth. I provided Edmunds for nuetral party info.

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

Been driving Audis for over 15 years and never had an issue, my buddy has had his Ford Expedtion in the shop more than its been on the road...not to say Audis never have issues, or there arent Fords that have never been in the shop....all false stereotypes...

I love my Audi and will never give up the Quattro, german engineering and attention to detail. I've blown by SUV's heading north with my Quattro and Conti Extremes (All Seasons)...bottom line..it comes down to the driver using his/her head and knowing how to drive in the conditions......

 

[hammer]

I know Ive blasted through 2 foot snowbanks in my Jeep that the Forrester wouldnt get through

FWIW, with my Subaru Outback I usually enjoy blasting through the large snowbanks that plows can leave behind cars in the parking lot where I work. Good thing my son doesn't see me doing it...don't want him to get any ideas when he starts driving. :wink:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

My Impreza is great in more than a foot of snow..I freaking love doing donuts in the ski area parking lot before they plow..and I drove up one of the steepest hills in my town where kids were sledding without a problem..awd is just so great..when I lived in Montana I drove a Sentra and I had to get towed 3 times getting stuck in deep snow..

 

[Edd]

Toyota is offering 2.9% on a 5 year loan for most of their lineup, including an AWD Matrix. That is very good. Even better deals on shorter loan terms.

 

[air0rmc]

I dont need to go to Edmunds.com to know the truth. I own a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and drive a 2008 silverado 2500HD all summer for work, and my girlfriend of 5 years owns a Subaru Forrester. Ive lived and worked with all of these rigs extensively and know their benefits and limitations. The forrester is a good car, but gets 24 mpg in the real world and I cannot fit as much stuff in it as I can in my Jeep regardless of what they say the interior room is. I know Ive blasted through 2 foot snowbanks in my Jeep that the Forrester wouldnt get through, and Ive made it down 12" plus roads without a problem in the Jeep to get to my girls Subaru that was stuck. Need more real world experience? Numbers on a website dont tell anywhere near the whole story.

Ill conceed resale values arent as high, but I drive my cars till theyre worth no more than a grand anyway, so its a moot point to me. But if you are the type who needs the newest and best every 3-5 years or so, foreign cars do have better resale values.

Its all about the tires Dude....you can get a WILLY'S stuck in a church parking lot on sunday morning with worn tires.....! And a thousand dollars is all a CHEEP GRAND CHEROKEE is worth after 3-5 years..........!