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Ski Resort Response to COVID-19

gittist

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HOW do you perceive flu death be "reported" as Covid death?
I've heard many times [not that it's true] that anyone that dies from any cause and also tests positive for COVID, is counted as a COVID death. So if a person dies in a car wreck, skis off of a cliff.... but ultimately tests positive for COVID they are counted as a COVID death.
 

Smellytele

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I've heard many times [not that it's true] that anyone that dies from any cause and also tests positive for COVID, is counted as a COVID death. So if a person dies in a car wreck, skis off of a cliff.... but ultimately tests positive for COVID they are counted as a COVID death.
Read the link I posted and how they are reporting it.
 

flakeydog

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I think the "excess deaths" is kind of a thing.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201117133908.htm
https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/09/01/comorbidities-and-coronavirus-deaths-cdc/
https://healthcostinstitute.org/hcci-research/daily-deaths-during-coronavirus-pandemic-by-state

There are probably a hundred more similar articles out there as well full of science-y data and long smart-sounding statistical terms. Of course, none of these articles start off by informing the reader that they won't see this printed anywhere else, or that they fear censorship from deep-state operatives that target only the few chosen ones that know the "truth".

PS: if I have stage-4 cancer and get hit by a bus, the bus gets the credit, not the cancer.
 

abc

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I perceive nothing. Frankly I would be glad to ignore all of this. But I am being forced to think about it which I try to do as little of as possible.

I have no time for politics or conspiracies. Or alleged "science" from people who have no real idea. But if you are going to tell me that it's impossible to report flu as COVID I've got a nice bridge in Brooklyn for you.
Well, if you aren't going to think, then I take it whatever you're posting is...without thinking! Best ignored?
 

abc

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I've heard many times [not that it's true] that anyone that dies from any cause and also tests positive for COVID, is counted as a COVID death. So if a person dies in a car wreck, skis off of a cliff.... but ultimately tests positive for COVID they are counted as a COVID death.
I heard that too. That could potentially be true.

Say, if someone falls off a ladder. cracked his skull open and bleed to death, you can quite strongly argue he's NOT died BECAUSE of COVID. Why? Because the symptoms of the two are quite different. (Covid actually has many different symptoms, still cracked skull isn't one of them :) )

But with flu, or pneumonia, how do you argue he's died of flu but has nothing to do with Covid?
 

drjeff

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I heard that too. That could potentially be true.

Say, if someone falls off a ladder. cracked his skull open and bleed to death, you can quite strongly argue he's NOT died BECAUSE of COVID. Why? Because the symptoms of the two are quite different. (Covid actually has many different symptoms, still cracked skull isn't one of them :) )

But with flu, or pneumonia, how do you argue he's died of flu but has nothing to do with Covid?

Part of the 1st version of the CARES ACT that was passed back in April if I recall the timeframe correctly, had specific wording in it that would allow hospitals to bill extra for any COVID positive patient they treated (regardless of it was COVID or not that brought them into the hospital) and then bill even more if the patient needed to be intubated for their treatment of COVID.

So yes indeed there was/still is I believe, financial incentive for a hospital to list COVID on the diagnosis coding, which then gets used for billing purposes.

This concept then morphed a bit onto death certificates where it has become almost to the point where if someone dies and they are COVID positive, it is often presumed that COVID was the cause of death, even if it was say something like stage 4 pancreatic cancer, or blunt force trauma from a car accident, or injuries sustained in a shooting, etc
 

abc

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allow hospitals to bill extra for any COVID positive patient they treated (regardless of it was COVID or not that brought them into the hospital)
Wasn't that to account for the fact a Covid positive patient had to be treated in isolation?
 

drjeff

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Wasn't that to account for the fact a Covid positive patient had to be treated in isolation?

I believe some of it was also attributable to the simple fact that the gov't realized what they were doing in March/April/May was going to adversely affect the volume that hospitals see of all patients, and that many hospitals,. especially the smaller community hospitals, were going to potentially not be able to continue operations without additional cash
 

flakeydog

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Part of the 1st version of the CARES ACT that was passed back in April if I recall the timeframe correctly, had specific wording in it that would allow hospitals to bill extra for any COVID positive patient they treated (regardless of it was COVID or not that brought them into the hospital) and then bill even more if the patient needed to be intubated for their treatment of COVID.

So yes indeed there was/still is I believe, financial incentive for a hospital to list COVID on the diagnosis coding, which then gets used for billing purposes.

This concept then morphed a bit onto death certificates where it has become almost to the point where if someone dies and they are COVID positive, it is often presumed that COVID was the cause of death, even if it was say something like stage 4 pancreatic cancer, or blunt force trauma from a car accident, or injuries sustained in a shooting, etc
So while hospitals may get more for COVID pts in concept it is justified (more PPE, isolation treatment, displacement of other revenue, etc), I wanted to take a look at wht the prevalence of gaming this system might be. Putting outright fraud aside like simply lying about a pt diagnosis or charging for services not rendered (something that already happens to some extent), let's look at the grey areas.

How many are admitted to a hospital with some non-COVID affliction but end up being diagnosed with it anyway? This assumes they test positive, if they don't that just goes back to the fraud category. If we take a look at the test positivity rate, we can get some sense of this. Vermont is currently at about 1.9% but that is on the lower end. Overall, it has been stated that 5% is the threshold of being problematic. Many states are higher than this but as we know, as our rate of testing increases, the positivity rate falls (not surprisingly, many of the states with higher positivity rates have the lowest testing rates). I think 5% is a pretty conservative number for this exercise, if our overall positivity rate is higher than 5%, we have other problems.

Using that 5% positivity rate, a random person that unfortunately finds him or herself in the hospital would perhaps have a 5% chance of testing positive for COVID. Then, that hospital would have to be sure they billed tis out as COVID but I am sure that does not happen 100% of the time. I have to think a pretty small number of cases are truly being falsely billed. I am sure there are some anecdotal cases out there that make the news but I have a hard time believing it is a pervasive problem.
 

abc

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Using that 5% positivity rate, a random person that unfortunately finds him or herself in the hospital would perhaps have a 5% chance of testing positive for COVID. Then, that hospital would have to be sure they billed tis out as COVID
Excellent point, flakeydog. (y)

So at worst, less than 10% (or only 5%) of people who are admitted into hospital will randomly tested Covid positive.

And we're making such a big deal out of 5-10% of "falsely" identified Covid patient?

How many of those random 5-10% Covid-positive patient end up dying of their unrelated cause? 1%? 0.1%? And it's going to change the Covid death statistic by how much???

That's not counting some of those "randomly positive" patient may actually develop full fledge COVID disease. And are therefore CORRECTLY identified!
 

BenedictGomez

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Just keep in mind the same organization than runs these told us no masks in March, said it wasn't a problem in Feb, and now say 7-10 days is sufficient for quarantining ( yesterday that was announced by CDC)

I could add so many things to this list, but I'll just add the illogical one that I've been harping on here since March, the claim that masks wont protect the wearer, but will protect people across the Costco. Ponder for a moment that these are the "geniuses" leading you.

EDIT: I should also add, this is a perfect example of how people dont question authority. There's a book about this, cant recall the title. If people "believe" someone is an expert, they're apt to listen to and do what they say, often without questioning it, regardless of how irrational or silly the information seems. And from Day #1, masks not protecting the wearer seemed pretty irrational & silly to me.
 
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JimG.

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Well, if you aren't going to think, then I take it whatever you're posting is...without thinking! Best ignored?
Sure do whatever you want. I don't care if you put me on ignore.

But since you want to persist in your COVID hysteria, remember there is a big difference between perceive and think. You think this COVID hysteria is valid and have bought into it 100%; your perception is that this is a crisis. I think this COVID hysteria is overblown and I choose to perceive the situation as something not really worthy of my rapt attention. This is a manufactured "crisis" to me. Of course, I'm healthy and have no other co-morbidities. I don't live with anyone who is predisposed to a bad outcome. So if you want to stay in a bubble to be safe, that's your choice. I'm good with that.

My biggest "crisis" is wondering how much I will ski this season.
 
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nhskier1969

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Didn't know where to post this but wondering how low skier visit will be this year for the country and for the states?
 

abc

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But since you want to persist in your COVID hysteria, remember there is a big difference between perceive and think. You think this COVID hysteria is valid and have bought into it 100%; your perception is that this is a crisis. I think this COVID hysteria is overblown and I choose to perceive the situation as something not really worthy of my rapt attention. This is a manufactured "crisis" to me. Off course, I'm healthy and have no other co-morbidities. I don't live with anyone who is predisposed to a bad outcome. So if you want to stay in a bubble to be safe, that's your choice. I'm good with that.
You've just made a long winded argument that perception and "think" is the same thing.

And as you claim you don't want to "think" about anything Covid related, why are you on a thread ABOUT Covid Response of ski resort?
 

JimG.

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You've just made a long winded argument that perception and "think" is the same thing.

And as you claim you don't want to "think" about anything Covid related, why are you on a thread ABOUT Covid Response of ski resort?
I knew you couldn't hit that ignore button!
 

nhskier1969

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Question for everyone, the CDC says 88% of the cases are asymptomatic. Up to 6 weeks ago you couldn't get tested unless you got a doctors note, so there were fewer cases before that. The past six weeks there has been a lot more testing but I would find it hard to believe there would be more than 5% of asymptomatic people were tested. So what is the actual number of positive coronavirus cases in the united states if you count asymptomatic people.
 
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