Ski Sundown mention in Skiing Magazine

[Tin Woodsman]

Agreed on most of this. However, I've dealt with the marketing rep at Sundown for a few years and wouldn't expect this from her. I think your point about this making them look foolish to those in the know is right on. Sundown is a really great hill and they don't need to have themselves misrepresented like this. I actually Emailed the East Coast editor for SKIING to get the skinny.

I'd love to hear if they respond. You see this type of garbage in just about every issue. It's an unimaginably bad level of laziness on the part of the skiing mags if this isn't coming from the marketing departments. There is simply no excuse for this. Untrained monkeys on meth could do better.

 

[Zand]

Wachusett- Smith Walton 24 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.

Seem right to you Zand?

Yeah. Right after the first road I think it might get slightly steeper than that on skiier's right for about 50 vertical feet or so. But that seems about right for the actual headwall. I remember my first run down it and how "big and scary it was" and now it's like I don't even think about it.

Another one possibly worth checking is skiier's left on Conifer just above the second road. I think it's more or less due to the whale that gets blown there early season that makes it seem steeper than it really is though.

 

[pigfarmer]

Monkey on meth responds

Hey all,

I'm the eastern editor at Skiing. I did get an email from Greg about this and I did reply to him, but also wanted to post here.

The person who wrote the Sundown piece is an associate editor at the magazine's home office in Boulder. I am not sure if he's ever skied Sundown, but it was his idea to write it up, so I suspect he has; I haven't spoken with him yet about this thread. I've never been down there (I live in northern VT), so I will definitely defer to the collective wisdom here. I do agree that 35-degrees is a heck of a lot steeper than most people realize.

Anyway. That's a long way of saying that I'm not sure why this was so inflated. I suspect (as I believe Tinwoodsman noted) that he glommed onto something from marketing speak... it's all too easy and tempting to do, especially when you're writing on deadline from 2000-miles away. I know I've done it and I know I've made mistakes doing it.

That's not an excuse; just being honest. All of us in the magazine industry definitely stoop to the "monkey on meth" level (or below) from time to time. This appears to be one of those times.

I honestly appreciate that you guys are taking the time to read the section and post on it. I'd love to hear more feedback, negative or positive.

Thanks much, I'm including my personal email if you want to contact me off forum.

Best,
Ben Hewitt
ben@bittergravity.com

 

[Paul]

Wow, thanks for that reply, Ben. Kudos.

 

[JimG.]

Hey all,

I'm the eastern editor at Skiing. I did get an email from Greg about this and I did reply to him, but also wanted to post here.

The person who wrote the Sundown piece is an associate editor at the magazine's home office in Boulder. I am not sure if he's ever skied Sundown, but it was his idea to write it up, so I suspect he has; I haven't spoken with him yet about this thread. I've never been down there (I live in northern VT), so I will definitely defer to the collective wisdom here. I do agree that 35-degrees is a heck of a lot steeper than most people realize.

Anyway. That's a long way of saying that I'm not sure why this was so inflated. I suspect (as I believe Tinwoodsman noted) that he glommed onto something from marketing speak... it's all too easy and tempting to do, especially when you're writing on deadline from 2000-miles away. I know I've done it and I know I've made mistakes doing it.

That's not an excuse; just being honest. All of us in the magazine industry definitely stoop to the "monkey on meth" level (or below) from time to time. This appears to be one of those times.

I honestly appreciate that you guys are taking the time to read the section and post on it. I'd love to hear more feedback, negative or positive.

Thanks much, I'm including my personal email if you want to contact me off forum.

Best,
Ben Hewitt
ben@bittergravity.com

Excellent to hear directly from you about this.

I believe he meant to say a "35 percent grade" as opposed to "35 degrees". 35 degrees is very steep for any inbounds resort area, and pretty steep for alot of BC action too.

If the trail at Sundown were 35 degrees, I believe that patrons would hear the sounds of avalanche control work on snowy days.

 

[Greg]

Hey all,

I'm the eastern editor at Skiing. I did get an email from Greg about this and I did reply to him, but also wanted to post here.

The person who wrote the Sundown piece is an associate editor at the magazine's home office in Boulder. I am not sure if he's ever skied Sundown, but it was his idea to write it up, so I suspect he has; I haven't spoken with him yet about this thread. I've never been down there (I live in northern VT), so I will definitely defer to the collective wisdom here. I do agree that 35-degrees is a heck of a lot steeper than most people realize.

Anyway. That's a long way of saying that I'm not sure why this was so inflated. I suspect (as I believe Tinwoodsman noted) that he glommed onto something from marketing speak... it's all too easy and tempting to do, especially when you're writing on deadline from 2000-miles away. I know I've done it and I know I've made mistakes doing it.

That's not an excuse; just being honest. All of us in the magazine industry definitely stoop to the "monkey on meth" level (or below) from time to time. This appears to be one of those times.

I honestly appreciate that you guys are taking the time to read the section and post on it. I'd love to hear more feedback, negative or positive.

Thanks much, I'm including my personal email if you want to contact me off forum.

Best,
Ben Hewitt
ben@bittergravity.com

Thanks for chiming in here, Ben. I also appreciate the honesty and candidness. Weird that an article describing a place in CT is likely written by someone in Colorado with no experience at the hill. Maybe an alternative could be to reach out to East Coast skiers and try to get some more direct insight from folks that actually ski these places? I know, I know, deadlines. But in the end an accurate write-up of a ski area is more useful to your readers and the mountains. Sundown is a great little hill and deserves an accurate representation. It doesn't need the hype.

Oh well....I really wish there was a quality ski mag dedicated to truly passionate East coast skiers like the majority of the members here, not your "sub-10 days a year" skiers...

 

[Paul]

Oh well....I really wish there was a quality ski mag dedicated to truly passionate East coast skiers like the majority of the members here, not your "sub-10 days a year" skiers...

Not sure there would be enough material to justify the ROI for that. I'm fairly content with the back section of Skiing (and SKI) to get my fill. Thing is, with any magazine dedicated to a niche market, there's only so much to write about. Gotta keep a large and diverse appeal...

 

[pigfarmer]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm pretty sure Pieter (who wrote the piece) actually grew up in CT... hopefully we can get him to post here and really tear him apart

However, we really do want to reach out to more east coast skiers for story ideas, etc. Right now, we're in the planning stage for next season (in fact, I go out to CO for meetings next week). If there's stuff ya'll think we should be running with, or stuff you think we should trash, or whatever, lemme know

thanks

 

[JimG.]

in fact, I go out to CO for meetings next week.

thanks

*cough*cough*junket*cough*cough*

Yes, of course, you're going out west for "meetings".

Enjoy the snow...err...meetings.

 

[Greg]

Jericho- Jiminy 25 degrees for 500 ft., 30 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.
Upper Liftline- Berkshire East 26 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.
Catapult- Catamount 32 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical.

These sections are quite short because their steep sections are very short making the data more prone to error. So I would give or take 3 degrees on each. Probably a few degrees less steep if anything. I highly doubt I under estimated on any of these runs. Greg so what do you have to say about this, because I have never skied these runs so I really have no idea how steep they feel? Also, catapult wasn't on the aerial photograph so I might have messed up by a little bit on the location, making my reading steeper than it truly is. My guess is catapult and Jericho are about the same steepness, and catapult is a little less steep.

I'm a dork.

Just saw this. Using White Nitro as a comparison, I'd say your numbers are a bit high. It might be all about perspective though. Skiing off the cold, windy and much higher summit of Sugarloaf is inherently going to feel steeper than skiing that steep section at the bottom of Jericho at Jiminy where it's low altitide, protected and almost at the bottom of the run. Upper Liftline at the Beast is also a narrowish natural snow liftline so that may make it seem steeper just because it's a harder run overall. In any event I think mid twenties for the steepest parts of these trails is pretty close. I think Cataoult is probably the most sustained steepish pitch of the three. Jericho's top section is only moderatley steep and the run mellows out in the middle before the final 100' of steepness. Top half of Liftline is the steepest and it progressively mellows out as you descend. Nice run by the way...

Jericho (Jiminy):

Liftline (Berkshire East):

Catamout (Catamount):

 

[Paul]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm pretty sure Pieter (who wrote the piece) actually grew up in CT... hopefully we can get him to post here and really tear him apart

However, we really do want to reach out to more east coast skiers for story ideas, etc. Right now, we're in the planning stage for next season (in fact, I go out to CO for meetings next week). If there's stuff ya'll think we should be running with, or stuff you think we should trash, or whatever, lemme know

thanks

don't think I've seen it yet (and if you've done it, forgive me) a piece on the Meatheads would be cool. I'd like to see them get some more exposure. I really like the Molehill of the Month section. Anything beyond the usual stuff you see / hear about NE. But don't give too much away ;-)

 

[Greg]

If there's stuff ya'll think we should be running with, or stuff you think we should trash, or whatever, lemme know

The undeniable value of online communities/forums like AlpineZone.com would be a no-brainer to feature. In fact, it might be nice to include a screen shot of these forums right on the cover! That's about all I can think of...

 

[PSVann]

Fire me now.

Hi all,

I'm the editor/meth monkey who wrote the piece. I grew up in Burlington, CT (Go Lewis S. Mills Spartans!) right down the road from Sundown, and skied it, along with other Connecticut molehills, many times growing up. For the three years I've worked here, I've been begging the other editors to let me write about Sundown.

And you guys nailed me: I got the percent grade from owner Bob Switzgable, and simply neglected to convert it. Blame the math department over at LSM. Ok, blame me, it's a rookie move and one I'm embarrassed about. The "35-degree" stat should have set off more alarm bells, though, my memories of Gunbarrel date back to age 14 or so, and things seem a lot steeper when you're only four feet tall.

Feel free to contact me directly about the story, as well as any CT ski happenings. Always good to hear from Connecticut skiers.

Pieter van Noordennen
Associate Editor
Skiing Magazine
pieter@skiingmag.com

 

[pigfarmer]

don't think I've seen it yet (and if you've done it, forgive me) a piece on the Meatheads would be cool. I'd like to see them get some more exposure. I really like the Molehill of the Month section. Anything beyond the usual stuff you see / hear about NE. But don't give too much away ;-)

Heh. I actually did a feature in the national section on the Meatheads two years ago... can't remember exactly which issue... Those guys are a riot.

I just tried to upload the text from my computer but it exceeds the allowed file size... if you want, I'd be happy to email it to you.

 

[Greg]

Hi all,

I'm the editor/meth monkey who wrote the piece. I grew up in Burlington, CT (Go Lewis S. Mills Spartans!) right down the road from Sundown, and skied it, along with other Connecticut molehills, many times growing up. For the three years I've worked here, I've been begging the other editors to let me write about Sundown.

And you guys nailed me: I got the percent grade from owner Bob Switzgable, and simply neglected to convert it. Blame the math department over at LSM. Ok, blame me, it's a rookie move and one I'm embarrassed about. The "35-degree" stat should have set off more alarm bells, though, my memories of Gunbarrel date back to age 14 or so, and things seem a lot steeper when you're only four feet tall.

Feel free to contact me directly about the story, as well as any CT ski happenings. Always good to hear from Connecticut skiers.

Pieter van Noordennen
Associate Editor
Skiing Magazine
pieter@skiingmag.com

Thanks for clarifying, Pieter. So who can do the math? A 35% grade is how many degrees?

A pretty large Sundown contingent here. We will have weekly gatherings over there Wednesday nights this season. They had a sweet seeded bump run set up last season:

I just tried to upload the text from my computer but it exceeds the allowed file size... if you want, I'd be happy to email it to you.

Or ship it over to me and I'll host it...

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Wow - have to say I'm impressed that you guys showed up to not only post, but take your medicine like the meth monkey men you are. :lol:

Seriously though, two thoughts:

1) The reason I started flinging names and being ornery is b/c not only was 35* obviously wrong, more importantly this type of mistake is ridiculously common in the major skiing publications, including Skiing. I see a mistake or exaggeration like this at least once per issue. It shouldn't be that difficult to figure out % pitch/grade vs. degrees. You'd get a pass from me if it was a one-time thing, but it isn't.

2) As for story ideas, I haven't seen much on the increasing trend to "head back to the future" with skiers seeking out the backcountry/sidecountry in the East as well as the West. The plundering of pow in places like K-Mart backside, Pico sidecountry, Slidebrook, Smuggs Back/Birthday Bowls, all over Mansfield, and the 20th Hole and thereabouts at MRG is now de rigeur for most serious Eastern skiers. No names or specific locations need to be revealed, but there's a LOT more there that the masses are now discovering.

 

[awf170]

Just saw this. Using White Nitro as a comparison, I'd say your numbers are a bit high. It might be all about perspective though. Skiing off the cold, windy and much higher summit of Sugarloaf is inherently going to feel steeper than skiing that steep section at the bottom of Jericho at Jiminy where it's low altitide, protected and almost at the bottom of the run. Upper Liftline at the Beast is also a narrowish natural snow liftline so that may make it seem steeper just because it's a harder run overall. In any event I think mid twenties for the steepest parts of these trails is pretty close. I think Cataoult is probably the most sustained steepish pitch of the three. Jericho's top section is only moderatley steep and the run mellows out in the middle before the final 100' of steepness. Top half of Liftline is the steepest and it progressively mellows out as you descend. Nice run by the way...

I suck at geometry. I was doing height/length instead of height/hyp.

Corrected:
Jericho- Jiminy 23 degrees for 500 ft., 27 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.
Upper Liftline- Berkshire East 24 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.
Catapult- Catamount 28 degrees for 300 ft. of vertical.
Wachusett- Smith Walton 22 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.
Ski Sundown- Gunbarrel 20 degrees for 400 ft. of vertical. 24 degrees for 200 ft. of vertical.

I knew they seemed a little high, I just wasn't sure why.

 

[FRITOLAYGUY]

Big Props to both Ben and Pieter for stepping up to the plate and taking the heat instead of hiding and running the other direction..

 

[bvibert]

Hi all,

I'm the editor/meth monkey who wrote the piece. I grew up in Burlington, CT (Go Lewis S. Mills Spartans!) right down the road from Sundown, and skied it, along with other Connecticut molehills, many times growing up. For the three years I've worked here, I've been begging the other editors to let me write about Sundown.

And you guys nailed me: I got the percent grade from owner Bob Switzgable, and simply neglected to convert it. Blame the math department over at LSM. Ok, blame me, it's a rookie move and one I'm embarrassed about. The "35-degree" stat should have set off more alarm bells, though, my memories of Gunbarrel date back to age 14 or so, and things seem a lot steeper when you're only four feet tall.

Feel free to contact me directly about the story, as well as any CT ski happenings. Always good to hear from Connecticut skiers.

Pieter van Noordennen
Associate Editor
Skiing Magazine
pieter@skiingmag.com

Small world! I grew up in Burlington, CT too. LSM class of 95. Your name sounds familiar, were you a year or two behind me?

Anyway, thanks to the both of you for coming in here and weighing in on the piece!

 

[JimG.]

Big Props to both Ben and Pieter for stepping up to the plate and taking the heat instead of hiding and running the other direction..

I agree.

I've been tough on ski magazines and the media in general...much newfound respect here.