Ski Tuning

[beswift]

Personally, I spend a lot of time waxing and tuning my skiis now. For years I have always started a day on the slopes with a freshly tuned pair of skiis. I'm not so sure that is so necessary when skiing out west, but in N.E. I know sharp edges help. Waxing I do as a matter of habit, although it is getting rather irritating. I just can't imagine that most patrollers and Instructors, especially the full timers go out every day with a freshly waxed and tuned pair of skiis. An interesting fact I have learned would be that a coat of wax properly scraped and structured only lasts half a day. Consequently one would have to wax twice a day to have a waxed ski all day. Sometimes I have brought two pairs of skiis with me and changed them at lunch, but that isn't due to the wax. Nevertheless, as I remember, I did notice the difference. How about it?

 

[Talisman]

I'm curious about your wax only lasting half a day. My waxing holds up for two days applying the 80/20 rule' there's visible wax on about 80% of the base. Structure and the wax under the boot does go quickly though.

The quick apply waxes last about two runs, though i have had not wax hold up for a morning of skiing wet snow.

 

[beswift]

Waxing

When I worked as a shop tech (mounting, tuning, binding adjusting, ect.) that was the generally accepted rule of thumb for free skiing. It didn't apply to racing. It has prompted many resorts to allow outdoor slope-side tuning. If you have two pairs of skiis, try switching them at your mid-day break. You should notice the difference, but it does depend on the propre choice of wax. An interesting fact I would like to add would be that there is one big advantage to wooden skiis over poly based fiberglass. A wooden base, correctly pine tarred, holds wax longer. The switch in cross country racing technique to skating was directly due to the loss of waxes in the long distances with fibreglass skiis. Bill Koch's began skating after his diagonal stride was hindered by a loss of wax in an '72 Olympic race. He took the Silver. Diagonal stride skiing dominated the Olympic competition for over 50 years. Most of that time the competitors used wooden skiis. The combination of diagonal stride technique and poly based skiis did not last very long in comparison.

 

[beswift]

One other question. Do you scrape your skiis of wax? I've never heard of the 80/20 rule. There are two measures of a ski length, contact and running length of which I have heard. Shaped skiis may have changed this, but you should wax your full ski length but not the tips. You should then scrape as much of it off as you can. Only the wax which has impregnated the base will aid your skiing.

 

[Talisman]

I'm old enough to have waxed wooden skis with pine tar bases. I just threw out a can of Swix pine tar left over from keeping some '70's era cross country skis going.

The 80/20 rule is: I consider my skis 'waxed' if 80% of the base still has wax. I find the wax wears off unevenly, with the under the boot area edges wearing off first. By examining the base carefully this is easy to observe on black bases. I don't have access to a place to tune skis on a typical weekend so the wax has to last.

I'm not a fiend about removing all the wax. Once the scraping gets to 'dandruff' flakes, I'm done and a quick structuring is next. I get lots of glide out of my skis on some trail run outs, East Bowl at Burke for example.

I rarely switch skis once the day begins and my rock skis are such beaters compared to my 'good' skis it isn't the fresh wax I notice.

 

[powers]

Try using a cold universal and scape it while its still warm. This time of year the "snow" is more like crushed ice and is very abrasive. If you want to get tricky, wax about 1/2" in from the edge under foot with something like swix Ch4 and scrape lightly. Wax the rest with your normal temp wax and scrape and brush. Putting a cold wax near the edge will help prevent edge burn and prolong your wax job. This is especially good on snow boards as the psi per linear inch of edge is greater than skis and more friction is generated. Sometimes I will purposely wax slower on a powder/woods day to get more fall line control. I've made the mistake of waxing with some Toko prototype race wax and it was out of control. I never had time to get the skis to come around so I just had to straight line everything. Too bad trees aren't in a straight line :x

 

[beswift]

Waxing

Interesting comments. Since I moved into the flatlands, I haven't been able to wax knowing what the conditions are. Usually I wax a few days before skiing. However, I do find that an educated guess about the weather and a rule of thumb i.e. warm in the early and late season, cold in the winter works well. I make the run-outs like you are talking about. Partly, however, I can add to them with my ski technique. My skating experience (both X-C and Ice) helps a lot in the flats. So, it isn't a concern that I have no wax at the end of the day. However, losing wax under foot slows your traverse a good deal. One way, though, to increase your skiis hold on wax would be to heat the base well when applying the wax. That's why dipping a ski like most shops do isn't as good as using an iron or waxer. As to Electra or Black bases, I have been using an additive paste especially designed for them by Toko. It comes in a tube, and you apply it to the skiis before waxing. They replaced it recently with a block wax which you add to your mix. I bought some last spring but haven't used it. As I remember the Electra bases give an advantage in warm soft snow either old or falling and powder. All I can say is that I always enjoy them, but when out Wednesday around ten degrees F., I didn't enjoy skating around the lodge like I did last week when I was on a sintered base with the right wax This may be due to the soft wax I used to put the Electra bases up for the summer, though. Having the right wax isn't that important to me to re-wax for the conditions. Here is the dilemma which I wanted to make clear when I started this thread. When do you want to do the work? When you are waxing or when you are skiing? I saw in the literature somewhere that extruded bases work better than sintered when not waxed. On the subject of wooden skiis, nearly twenty five years ago I took my Dad's old wooden skiis, adapted them for a modern step-in binding, and went skiing at Sunapee. I had a ball, although I hadn't skied downhill for almost a decade. I didn't pine tar them or wax them. Looking at them today, I see that there is a crack down the middle of one(a solid piece of Hickory) and a slightly blown edge. My mom's skiis are in better shape. The edge had separated slightly at the tip with a small amount of delamination, but I fixed it. I had varnished both skiis heavily before putting them away back then. I am considering putting a three pin tele binding on the straight 190's if I can pick up a good boot. I would have to run the skiis over a belt to bring the bases down to the original wood, restore the edges, then pine tar them for waxing. However, I don't believe this is ridiculous. They certainly have held their camber well (my dad blocked and straped them in storage).

 

[powers]

Extruded bases will work better in a no-wax situation only because the plastic is in an amorphous structure as opposed to sintered that is still grainular. Since extuded bases have no pores, they can't absorb any wax so anything you put on is gone by the time you hit the chair or leave the trailhead. Extruded bases are also soft and rip up when you hit anything. Sintered bases start with a much harder plastic that is ground into a dust and pressed into a disc under high pressure and low heat. This bonds the particals together but still leaves microscopic gaps to fill in with wax. Think of a foam cup. Electra bases have added graphite to help disapate the electro-static charge caused by friction with dry or dirty snow. The static builds up and pulls more dirt to the base and causes more friction. Current waxes are now mostly anti-static in nature so electra bases aren't as critical. The addition of graphite to the base also makes it softer. Thats why Fischer cold classic skis have a harder clear base as a smooth, hard surface is required for cold,dry, abrasive snow. The white base burn found on skis is shreaded and oxidized base material. The addition of O2 to the base makes it absorb water, slowing you down.
However, if those old wood skis don't have any cracks in them, I'd say tar'em up and go have a little fun. It's a rare oppertunity to torch in pine tar on some ski and I think everyone should do it once just to appreciate the old school ways. And make sure you use your own secret "dope" on the skis, not the new fangeled "wax" these punks use these days! Why I can remember....when i was a boy.................I, I , I use ta........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[beswift]

More tunes.

Actually, pine tarring skiis was part of my job at one time. It isn't hard to do, actually, and not very messy if done right. However, I believe my pine tar days might be over. The wooden skiis will prabably stay on the wall. As to your comments, they are quite exact and informative. I will be tuning a pair of Electra bases today and may use your tips. However, I will prabably use the new Molybdenum wax I bought mail order last spring to see if it matters. I have a lot of experience waxing for cross country (we always never have enough, though) and I must state that for anyone who wants to do long trips in cold weather he should consider wooden skiis. It is a truism to state that one must stop and rewax poly based skiis. However, I have found that you can ski for hours with wooden skiis which no one wanted. They hold cold waxes the best. If you find that is putting you to sleep uke:

 

[goldsbar]

I never bother scraping the wax off my skis (alpine, not xc). The snow is so abbrasive in the NorthEast that the excess is usually gone in a run or two. Why waste time scraping (unless you're racing). I remember using the same method for a powder day at Jackson Hole. The snow was so soft that the ski still had all of the extra wax on it at the end of the day

 

[beswift]

I have found that not scraping will slow you down and yield an uneven coat of wax after most of it is worn off. Certainly, you don't have to do it, but I suspect your day in Jackson Hole might have been more enjoyable if you had scraped it off. It's in the flats that waxing aides the skier. When it comes to scraping, most people don't scrape the wax off thoroughly. Once you get to the point when your scraping yields no flakes at all, you have scraped enough. At that point I have been corking the wax in with a good Alpine cork. Then I have been using a brass wire brush which was intended for cleaning Barbeque grills to structure the base. You can't come up with a good structure without scraping and corking your base smooth. The wire brush didn't cost me much and I also picked it up at the end of the summer season on sale in the Stop & Shop. Yesterday, I finished waxing an Electra base with Molybdenum wax (a universal) and will be testing it sometime at the end of the week. Unfortunately, it was an expensive wax so I have to be a bit parsimonious with it. I still have some of the Toko paste for Electra bases and will be using it this winter. Since I have two pairs of downhill skiis with Electra bases now, I prabably will be using more than I have in the past. Anyway, I expect dry or dirty snow Friday.

 

[RossiSkier]

Beswift I have read your posts very carefully in regards to tuning, as you are obviously a veteran shop guy. Keep posting about ski maintenance cause I eat it up. My bottom sheets never looked better and edges can cut cantelope. Looking for a good workbench like the Workmate to start making a little shop.

 

[beswift]

Thanks Rossi, but I wish I could say the same for my skiis. Actually, I changed my tuning technique since that last post. I found an old pamflet from Swix titled >>Waxing for Racing<< and they recommend using the brass brush on your base before waxing them and a stiff-brissled Nylon brush after waxing. I picked up an inexpensive nylon brush at Walmart which looks a lot like the Swix brush in their catalogue. You use the brushes to structure tips-to-tails from what they state. However, there are a number of ways to structure your wax ,and I don't think the Nylon brush is the best. However, the Brass brush works before the waxing. Rilling is a technique which I believe isn't needed except for skate skiis, either. The main thing to remember would be that after scraping and corking your wax, you have to take the polish off of the smooth surface. I also tried a recommendation I found here about keeping ash out of p-tex using a Benzo-matic torch and it failled miserably. I don't think I was patient enough, though. Besides the ash doesn't really effect the quality of the plug as far as I know. It's ironic in a way but my first exposure to x-c waxing someone gave me a box and wooden skiis when I was living off-campus in Vt. It was like giving me a Greek Bible and dictionary. I never used either. Now, I am really into it when excited about going skiing. After a while, though, you only want to ski cold temps or skate technique because it is such a guessing game otherwise. Tuning is often just another job.

 

[DEVO]

For waxing I will typically clean the bases with either just a clean rag or some base cleaner. After cleaning I use a brass brush to open up the base structure, then a coarse fibertex (green) to knock down p-tex hairs. Then I drip wax and iron. If the skis are new or it's the beginning of the season I will iron then hot scrape a warm temp wax 3-4 times per ski, then iron on a universal wax which I let sit for at least an hour then cold scrape. After the final scraping, I brush with a horsehair brush, then a fine fibertex (white), then I cork polish the bases. After the first waxing of the season I skip the warm temp/hot scraping step.

The toughest thing for me is what temp wax to use for general waxing, Like I said above I usually use a universal wax, but this past weekend I didn't like how it felt. It actually felt better as the day wore on. I also wax several days before going skiing as we live in MA and usually ski NH. I think I will pick up some varieties of temps and try to gauge what the temp will be like next time we go.

Has anyone tried hot waxing, then using a cold wax corked in later in the day?

 

[ftrain]

If someone is going to start waxing their own skis what equipment do you recomend purchasing to sharpen the edge, iron, clamps to hold the skis, etc. You have a good wedsite that sells this stuff for a good price?

 

[Greg]

If someone is going to start waxing their own skis what equipment do you recomend purchasing to sharpen the edge, iron, clamps to hold the skis, etc. You have a good wedsite that sells this stuff for a good price?

Great questions and I'd be interested in this info as well. I just want to be able to quickly maintain my skis throughout the season, but will probably just have a shop do it pre-season. Thoughts?

 

[dmc]

If someone is going to start waxing their own skis what equipment do you recomend purchasing to sharpen the edge, iron, clamps to hold the skis, etc. You have a good wedsite that sells this stuff for a good price?

Great questions and I'd be interested in this info as well. I just want to be able to quickly maintain my skis throughout the season, but will probably just have a shop do it pre-season. Thoughts?

I was my boards with an old iron... Do some basic burr removale with a stone..

Otherwise I bring my decks to a friend who tunes in a shop up here.. Since I was accused of being a "schill" here - I won't post the stores name... PM me if your looking for a good tune in Hunter...

But they do an awesome job!!! Has brought boards back to life... Restored bent edges - everything..

 

[DEVO]

For a vice setup I use a Black and Decker workmake bench/vice. Mine is the kind you mount on a wall, but they make bench mount and stand alone types.

For sharpening there is a myth about always having to file your edges. If they are not rela bad or you are not trying to put a bevel on them, all you need ot do is use coarse and fine diamond stones to sharpen the edges. I just bought a stone with coarse on one side and fine on the other from Home Depot for around $24. I also keep an edge sharpener/beveler for when the edges do nee to be filed and/or beveled. I still keep a 6"bastard file in the tool box from back in the day, but hardly ever use it anymore. Also, you will need something like a gummi block to de-tune/de-burr.

For waxing you need an iron, an old household iron will work okay, but can burn bases if you are not careful. I recently saw a ski iron at Sports Authority for $34. You'll need a scaper, I use a metal one for the bases and an old plastic one for knocking wax off the edges, etc. You should have at least a pad of coarse fibertex (scotchbrite), I also use a fine pad. A brass brush (pre-waxing), nylon or horsehair brush, and a cork block (post scraping). Oh yeah and to keep the brakes held back I use an old ski pole strap.

It can be somewhat of an investment, but I think it's definately worth it.

 

[Katahdin]

If someone is going to start waxing their own skis what equipment do you recomend purchasing to sharpen the edge, iron, clamps to hold the skis, etc. You have a good wedsite that sells this stuff for a good price?

Here is a good site for tools and wax:

http://www.tognar.com/

 

[ftrain]

Wow that is a huge website with tons of tools and kits. Where does a newbie start?