Skiing Technique / Photo Critique Thread

[jack97]

Ditto on what everyone said.

You're a body bobber and a tail slider . . . . plus you keep your skis too close together.

Yours tails are washing out because you don’t have the edge engaged at the start of the turn. If you bend the knees and put shin pressure on the tongue of the boot, you will the load the front of the ski. By doing this, the tip of the ski engages the snow first; the rest of the ski will lock in.

Body going up and down; the vid shows the knees are almost locked straight when you go up at the end/start of the turn, puts you out of position to load the front of the skis. Note, some skiing methods (or styles) advocate this while most racers type would say its wasted energy going up and down. However, they all have the knee bent with some amount of shin pressure/contact.

 

[awf170]

Ditto on what everyone said.



Yours tails are washing out because you don’t have the edge engaged at the start of the turn. If you bend the knees and put shin pressure on the tongue of the boot, you will the load the front of the ski. By doing this, the tip of the ski engages the snow first; the rest of the ski will lock in.

Body going up and down; the vid shows the knees are almost locked straight when you go up at the end/start of the turn, puts you out of position to load the front of the skis. Note, some skiing methods (or styles) advocate this while most racers type would say its wasted energy going up and down. However, they all have the knee bent with some amount of shin pressure/contact.

You're a body bobber and a tail slider . . . . plus you keep your skis too close together.
This kind of thing probably works well in the bumps for you, but it looks weird on groomed stuff.

kbroderick is right, you need a more progressive edge throughout the turn, instead of a hard edge jab at the bottom of the turn. Open your stance a little and focus on clearing the inside ski first, either by moving your center of mass and freeing that leg to turn, or by using rotary skills to steer the thing around.

The good news is that a TON of people on the mountain have this problem, so you're not alone. I used to ski like this too, and a little bit of it still creeps back if I'm not careful.

Use your pole plants. Reach for your next turn. It will help you lean forward.
$.02

Austin: it looks like your body is never coming forward--it's always behind the plane Steve talked about (well, except that your nose isn't part of the plane--it's more like the plane described by a perpendicular line that intersects the skis at the toes). It's tough to tell from that video (not the world's highest quality), but I don't see any real loading of the ski, and I think that's at least part of the reason you bobbled on the first turn in the video. If you can manage to be more dynamic with your center of mass through the turn and progressively load the ski into the turn, you'll probably get a better response out of your skis (and if the bobble is caused by what I think it is--not enough progressive loading of the front of the ski during turn initiation--you'll take care of that, too).

Of course, trying to judge technique from a few seconds of nighttime video as compressed by YouTube probably isn't the most effective way to do things.

Thanks for the info guys. I'll defiantly have a lot to work on tonight.

Also for consideration is that I don't really care about groomed trail skiing. I practiced skiing on groomed terrian because there was nothing else available. I want to get better at crud, powder, moguls, and glades so take into consideration that I'm looking for technique that will help me with that even if it may not look "right" on groomers.

Also, about the tail wash: If I don't wash the tail of my ski my turns just feel too wide for Wachusett. I'm on skis with a 24m turn radius which can't help. I really need to get my other skis mounted. Also if you're skiing glades/moguls don't you want tail wash?

 

[riverc0il]

Also for consideration is that I don't really care about groomed trail skiing. I practiced skiing on groomed terrian because there was nothing else available. I want to get better at crud, powder, moguls, and glades so take into consideration that I'm looking for technique that will help me with that even if it may not look "right" on groomers.

i think you should look at it from another perspective... you should try to get technique improvements down on the groomers first. fundamental ski technique is the same regardless of what type of snow you are skiing on. small adjustments are required for various types of snow conditions but the basic set of skills employed are much the same. the recommendations made above from everyone will help you out on every type of terrain and can easily be practiced on groomers.

Also, about the tail wash: If I don't wash the tail of my ski my turns just feel too wide for Wachusett. I'm on skis with a 24m turn radius which can't help. I really need to get my other skis mounted. Also if you're skiing glades/moguls don't you want tail wash?

i have the same skis you do if you are on the intuitiv bigs... you can still make very tight turns on those skis even with a 24m radius. obviously, it is not that ski's specialty. radius is a really over rated stat, imo. the lack of side cut definitely doesn't help, but it doesn't have anything to do with the technical aspect of making a turn.

 

[Greg]

Some good advice here. Actually, we ski groomers somewhat similarly. Maybe it's a tall, skinny guy-thing. One thing you can work on and is something I'm trying to do is to finish your turn more completely. I do the same thing, i.e. initiate the turn and then about half way through, sort of coast into the next turn as opposed to really driving through the end of the turn on edge. I particularly have this problem on hard pack and I need to learn to trust my edges more instead of letting the tail wash out. I guess I normally let the natural rebound of the ski bring me into the next turn, but keeping the gas on during that rebound really makes the transition more fluid. I'm concentrating on this a lot of the groomers as it's essentially a very similar aspect as extending when skiing bumps. Good hand position. As was mentioned, try to do some pole plants. Quiet down that upper body and get rid of the bob. It seems like your doing that to initiate a turn, but if you were following through the end of your previous turn you probably wouldn't need to do that. Finally, take all my advice with a grain of salt as it's coming from a non-expert recreational skier with no instructor background.

 

[kbroderick]

Thanks for the info guys. I'll defiantly have a lot to work on tonight.

Also for consideration is that I don't really care about groomed trail skiing. I practiced skiing on groomed terrian because there was nothing else available. I want to get better at crud, powder, moguls, and glades so take into consideration that I'm looking for technique that will help me with that even if it may not look "right" on groomers.

If you can learn to drive your skis instead of riding them, your off-piste skiing will benefit a lot (and especially in crud or when making larger turns through powder and glades). If you can progressively load the skis and drive them around the turn, you can blast through crud, windslab, and various other sorts of snow condition that frequently occur off the groomed (especially when you combine good technique with appropriate skis).

Also, about the tail wash: If I don't wash the tail of my ski my turns just feel too wide for Wachusett. I'm on skis with a 24m turn radius which can't help. I really need to get my other skis mounted. Also if you're skiing glades/moguls don't you want tail wash?

In the glades? Not really. You're certainly not going to be arcing cleanly with a 24m sidecut and Eastern glades, but it's generally better to work on consistent brushed turns rather than arcing half a turn and then chucking the skis sideways in the other half. (A "brushed turn", by my definition, is one in which the tails come as closely as possible to following the tips while still producing the desired turn radius, and where the deviation in path between tip and tail is more or less constant throughout the turn.) I was out on a pair of 188cm 9S's (pre-super-sidecut-slalom skis), which probably have a turn natural radius in the neighborhood of six miles, and I was able to ski quite effectively on limited terrain without washing out my tails.

(or, to put it another way--yes, you'll have to skid part of the turn. But it generally works better to skid the whole turn less than to skid the finish of the turn more.)

As far as moguls go--I'm not a mogul skier, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I can fake it on my 167s, using similar technique to what I usually do when I'm making brushed turns with a bit more flexion/extension involved, but that's about it.

 

[awf170]

Some good advice here. Actually, we ski groomers somewhat similarly. Maybe it's a tall, skinny guy-thing. One thing you can work on and is something I'm trying to do is to finish your turn more completely. I do the same thing, i.e. initiate the turn and then about half way through, sort of coast into the next turn as opposed to really driving through the end of the turn on edge. I particularly have this problem on hard pack and I need to learn to trust my edges more instead of letting the tail wash out. I guess I normally let the natural rebound of the ski bring me into the next turn, but keeping the gas on during that rebound really makes the transition more fluid. I'm concentrating on this a lot of the groomers as it's essentially a very similar aspect as extending when skiing bumps. Good hand position. As was mentioned, try to do some pole plants. Quiet down that upper body and get rid of the bob. It seems like your doing that to initiate a turn, but if you were following through the end of your previous turn you probably wouldn't need to do that. Finally, take all my advice with a grain of salt as it's coming from a non-expert recreational skier with no instructor background.

Yeah, I was actually going to say earlier that we ski very similar. You just seem more fluid and quick. I bet if I get rid of the bouncing up and down our skiing styles will look almost idenical.

Off to go practice. :smile:

 

[bvibert]

FWIW, Austin, my only advice is to only concentrate on working on one thing at a time. It's easy to get over-whelmed by all the suggestions. When I try to work on everything at once I get frustrated and just fall back onto my bad habits without gaining anything. For me it's much more effective to pick one thing I think is really important and work on that until I really get it, then onto the next...

 

[eatskisleep]

How about these (not from this season):

 

[mattchuck2]

I generally don't like to comment on stills. I have no idea what happened before or after the shot was taken. If you REALLY want an opinion, though, I will say you're probably doing a little too much leaning in the top picture. You are generating good edge angles, but the angulation should come from your lower body instead of your entire frame. You need to "feel the pinch" (as ski instructors say) in your outside abs. Ask someone you ski with about this, it's easier to show than to explain.

Nothing to say, really, about the second picture. It's a weird angle, you're not making any turns, and even if you were, conditions would dictate that you just go with the flow in that area. Nice line, though.

 

[eatskisleep]

I generally don't like to comment on stills. I have no idea what happened before or after the shot was taken. If you REALLY want an opinion, though, I will say you're probably doing a little too much leaning in the top picture. You are generating good edge angles, but the angulation should come from your lower body instead of your entire frame. You need to "feel the pinch" (as ski instructors say) in your outside abs. Ask someone you ski with about this, it's easier to show than to explain.

Nothing to say, really, about the second picture. It's a weird angle, you're not making any turns, and even if you were, conditions would dictate that you just go with the flow in that area. Nice line, though.

Thanks for the comments/suggestions. Here is another photo from the same race as the first photo where it looks like my upper body is pretty straight and I'm not leaning as much:

 

[awf170]

FWIW, Austin, my only advice is to only concentrate on working on one thing at a time. It's easy to get over-whelmed by all the suggestions. When I try to work on everything at once I get frustrated and just fall back onto my bad habits without gaining anything. For me it's much more effective to pick one thing I think is really important and work on that until I really get it, then onto the next...

Yeah, I figured that. Today I pretty much just worked on leaning forward in my boot as much as possible through out the whole turn. And actually from doing that a bunch of other things clicked. I have still have to work on it a good amount more but I feel in around 5 days or so I should be pretty good (aka no more skid).

Is it just me or does forcing yourself to flex your boot as hard as possible eliminate 90% of your problems? I know for me it does.

Also, it is so wierd to that last year I didn't care about technique at all, and now it is pretty much the only thing I think about while skiing (atleast when I am by myself).

 

[bigbog]

...starting out the season, especially this one...

Hi awf170,
Good points from everyone!. Ditto on bvibert's...cause a lot happens simultaneously for a turn to click...not to mention letting arc #1 flow into the next arc...then the next...etc.
Without relaxing those feet & ankles, adding some angulation....as well as forward momentum, engaging the ski's shovels will happen late every time. Pressurize the ski and the ski will do the turning...

 

[Greg]

FWIW, Austin, my only advice is to only concentrate on working on one thing at a time. It's easy to get over-whelmed by all the suggestions. When I try to work on everything at once I get frustrated and just fall back onto my bad habits without gaining anything. For me it's much more effective to pick one thing I think is really important and work on that until I really get it, then onto the next...

Indeed.

 

[bvibert]

Is it just me or does forcing yourself to flex your boot as hard as possible eliminate 90% of your problems? I know for me it does.

Things definitely seem to go much smoother for me when I'm able to get my weight forward and out of the back seat

Also, it is so wierd to that last year I didn't care about technique at all, and now it is pretty much the only thing I think about while skiing (atleast when I am by myself).

If nothing else it gives you something to do when conditions are less than ideal...

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

*applause*

I didn't take a lesson last year for the first time in three years. Wachusett makes it very simple to take lessons. I buy a book of Group Lessons, 5 lessons for $59. No one at level 6 or higher (of 9 levels?) takes group lessons...so I get private lessons for a fraction of the price. I ALWAYS tip the instructor. I've had instructors hang with me after the lesson just to free ski a bit. What a confidence builder/ego trip.

Also...I bought and read (constantly re-read) "The All Mountain Skier" for tips on how to improve. Great tips, excellent drills to practice...a cheap way to enhance your understanding of the sport.

Too true about "what we think vs what we are".

Greg...gutsy move posting photos of your skiing. *more applause* Although this forum is certainly NOT the Adirondacks forum. *smirk* I'd like to see video of my skiing. Haven't won Megabucks yet to get that critique.

After my first debacle on shaped skis last friday, my next time out I am definintely taking lessons. I work close to Wachusett, so maybe after work, I can head over, catch a lesson, come back and do it again.
I cannot believe how hard it (for me, anyway) to go from straight ski mentality to shaped ski mentality. Ugh.

 

[hrstrat57]

After my first debacle on shaped skis last friday, my next time out I am definintely taking lessons. I work close to Wachusett, so maybe after work, I can head over, catch a lesson, come back and do it again.
I cannot believe how hard it (for me, anyway) to go from straight ski mentality to shaped ski mentality. Ugh.

sheik,

check out the free demo team vids in my signature below....a quick tip on how to start dialing in straight ski to shaped ski technique tip btw....????

at wa bottom flat run out part of conifer....stop, start again, straight run, then tap pole and tip....ride ski all the way to stop. Stay forward focus on stance, pressure and tipping. Straight run again, tap other pole, tip..turn other direction. After a few dozen of these, try to put em together. This is similar approach to the old school psia patience turns, only results quicker to achieve due to the new technology...I am assuming of course you have carving technology....max 75 dimension center..

Check out the argento avanzato and oro base/avanzato segments - these drills are clearly illustrated.

Good luck, I have other links to CSIA free vids too if interested....pm me.

Cheers hrstrat57

 

[jack97]

Is it just me or does forcing yourself to flex your boot as hard as possible eliminate 90% of your problems? I know for me it does.

Also, it is so wierd to that last year I didn't care about technique at all, and now it is pretty much the only thing I think about while skiing (atleast when I am by myself).

If you're addicted, it's only natural to be thinking about this stuff. The boot flex/forward lean solves alot of problems but be careful, we have spring condtion right now. When condtions vary you have to apply it and time it the right way. Progressive loading, especially important with hard granular, with me I have to be patient about getting a clean edge release and engage my new edge, if I try to fast, I will overpower my tails.

This tech stuff can drive me crazy but take it one step at a time it's manageble.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

sheik,

check out the free demo team vids in my signature below....a quick tip on how to start dialing in straight ski to shaped ski technique tip btw....????

at wa bottom flat run out part of conifer....stop, start again, straight run, then tap pole and tip....ride ski all the way to stop. Stay forward focus on stance, pressure and tipping. Straight run again, tap other pole, tip..turn other direction. After a few dozen of these, try to put em together. This is similar approach to the old school psia patience turns, only results quicker to achieve due to the new technology...I am assuming of course you have carving technology....max 75 dimension center..

Check out the argento avanzato and oro base/avanzato segments - these drills are clearly illustrated.

Good luck, I have other links to CSIA free vids too if interested....pm me.

Cheers hrstrat57

Thanks, but it's all in Italian, and I don't understand it. I do appreciate the effort though. Thanks!

 

[from_the_NEK]

My turn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMyhtF1PMQQ

From this Saturday at Burke on manmade corn.
I feel that I'm probably keeping my feet to close together.

 

[hrstrat57]

ooops google

Thanks, but it's all in Italian, and I don't understand it. I do appreciate the effort though. Thanks!

ooops sorry, use google and the translation feature....or click on video lezioni and shut off the sound which eliminates the cheesy music and the Italian talk over....then look at the 3 segments I mentioned. translated in order, advanced intermediate, expert, advanced expert or silver, gold and advanced gold.

it's the pictures that really talk anyway...:-D

Don't let words get in the way...

good luck