Snow tires & AWD

[billski]

OK, I will open an old wound. the great debate over which is better: awd or snowtires. After a day in the snow north and a long drive to/fro here are my observations.

I have an all wheel drive sedan with new, high-rated all-season tires (Goodyear F1). Caveat- the car also has stability control and ABS. I promised myself to "wait and see" if I needed snows with AWD. So the wait is over, and now I've seen.

1. AWD with all season tires is great for winter driving on the Interstate, as long as the roads are plowed, even if there is hard pack snow underneath.

2. It became very clear when I was on State highways and secondary roads with loose snow, even a small amount, that snow tires would have given me much better traction for BOTH acceleration and braking. I slid far too much when braking hard (as evidenced by ABS chatter. I know based on past snow tire experience, that I should have been able to brake much faster. there was too much spinning when pulling out from a side road to a main road (you know the places, where the plowed snow isn't cleared at the intersections.)

I am now convinced that my AWD vehicle will get a set of snows for it's birthday next year.

 

[wa-loaf]

Snow tires make a big difference no matter what you are driving.

 

[billski]

Snow tires make a big difference no matter what you are driving.

We shall see with hard data on Friday. I do not doubt.

We take the newly-snow-tired, front wheel drive minivan filled with five people up a steep mountain secondary road in Stowe on Friday. It's guaranteed to be snow-covered. Many people experience no joy on this road.

 

[MichaelJ]

I have Blizzaks on my Outback. Driving up to NH in last Friday's storm was no problem at all, great control, no slip except on a few ice patches where nothing but metal studs is going to help anyway.

Yes, if I'd slammed on the brakes the ABS would have kicked in, but I'm confident I would have stayed straight and in line in the lane and stopped without too much extra distance. I still kept it in the 40's.

 

[Marc]

I think this is all stuff we've covered here before. Just as a note to everyone, however, threshold breaking will stop you faster than ABS. ABS is meant as a safety feature to allow the driver the ability to steer once the limit of adhesion has been surpassed.

 

[BeanoNYC]

What is the reduction of MPG with snowtires?

 

[nelsapbm]

IMO, snow tires are a definate must in northern New England. The difference between all-seasons and snows is amazing. I have Blizzaks on my CRV and have had no problems whatsoever all winter. I can even get up my hellish driveway with no problem. Come the end of March, I take 'em off and put the all seasons back on.

PS. I get anywhere between 26-28 mpg with summer tires on and 23-24 with the snows.

 

[Brettski]

I thought snows at highway speeds on dry land weren't a good idea....

Maybe I misunderstood

Do have a separate set of rims for the snows?

I might do this for the minivan next year

 

[mlctvt]

I thought snows at highway speeds on dry land weren't a good idea....

Maybe I misunderstood

Do have a separate set of rims for the snows?

I might do this for the minivan next year

Not any more. Check out the many "performance" snow tires now available. Some have 130MPH speed ratings.(H speed rating).
Having the tires mounted on a second set of rims is the easiest for Fall/Spring change overs. You can get low cost steel Rims for many cars in the $40-$50 range or Alloys for as low as $100 each. Check out Tirerack.com or discounttiredirect.com.

 

[tjf67]

IMO, snow tires are a definate must in northern New England. The difference between all-seasons and snows is amazing. I have Blizzaks on my CRV and have had no problems whatsoever all winter. I can even get up my hellish driveway with no problem. Come the end of March, I take 'em off and put the all seasons back on.

PS. I get anywhere between 26-28 mpg with summer tires on and 23-24 with the snows.

We have an 06 CRV and get 21.6 MPG WTF?

 

[billski]

We have an 06 CRV and get 21.6 MPG WTF?

What's your cruising speed?

 

[nelsapbm]

To CRV owner on Long Island - Do you do a lot of stop & go travelling? I don't. It's mostly a constant 50 mph commute, no stop & go traffic. I notice when I'm tooling around Burlington/SB after work doing errands my mpg drops to about 21-23.

 

[djspookman]

I grew up in northern VT, always had snow tires on my cars, and now that i'm in So. Nah Hampsha, I still have snow tires on both my cars. Why? traction, plain and simple. Never had an issue with highway speeds and dry pavement, other than the softer compound wears faster. Yes, there is a drop in MPG, but its not very noticeable (1-2 mpg) when you drive a car that averages 30mpg anyway.

As for the AWD and snowtires, my new (to me) '95 subie legagy wagon is UNSTOPPABLE in the snow w/ the snowtires. Its a friggin tank, stops on a dime, goes where i want it to, and sticks to the road like nothing else!

so my opinion is: snow tires+awd+driving skills=stick to road
awd+all seasons=stick to road sometimes in winter, sometimes stop
awd+summer tires=spin all 4 wheels in snow, can't stop worth crap

dave

 

[MichaelJ]

My Outback loses only about 2mpg on the highway due to my snow tires (25ish down to 23ish).

 

[riverc0il]

My Saturn Coupe has almost no MPG drop with snows at 35 MPG average with snows. Maybe 1-2 MPG tops even with speed limit (or slightly over) highway speeds. Cornering is slightly worse with snow tires (unless turning on snow which is of course better than with all seasons) but no problems at all on the highway at speed.

 

[snoseek]

I drop below 40 mpg with snows. They are soooo loud (cheap paid 140 installed) I can't wait to get them off my car. I notice a difference in handling on sharp corners.

 

[billski]

So I'm here to report on a weekend with new Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires on our front wheel drive Sienna minivan. Five people up the steep hillside drive, on about 3 inches of newfallen, but sanded road. Just chugged right along, including the two switchbacks which just don't relent. (It would make a helluva a ski run.) Back down the next morning, out to Bolton, snowpacked road, then up the Bolton Valley trail number one (they call it an "access road"), chugged right along. Back to Stowe end of day, up "the hill" a third time, out for dinner, this time with seven people in the minivan and back up. Really no problems at all.

BUT I do have one HUGE COMPLAINT. These Blizzaks (WS50) are the damn NOISIEST tires on the highway (anything above 60 mph). Annoyingly loud. I heard there are "performance" snow tires that are rated for higher speeds, maybe I have to look at that.

 

[Marc]

Suprised you didn't noticed how squirmy they are on dry pavement, too. Look at tires labeled as "winter tires" rather than "snow tires." These will typically have better dry road mannerisms.

 

[Bumpsis]

So I'm here to report on a weekend with new Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires on our front wheel drive Sienna minivan. Five people up the steep hillside drive, on about 3 inches of newfallen, but sanded road. Just chugged right along, including the two switchbacks which just don't relent. (It would make a helluva a ski run.) Back down the next morning, out to Bolton, snowpacked road, then up the Bolton Valley trail number one (they call it an "access road"), chugged right along. Back to Stowe end of day, up "the hill" a third time, out for dinner, this time with seven people in the minivan and back up. Really no problems at all.

BUT I do have one HUGE COMPLAINT. These Blizzaks (WS50) are the damn NOISIEST tires on the highway (anything above 60 mph). Annoyingly loud. I heard there are "performance" snow tires that are rated for higher speeds, maybe I have to look at that.

I have the same situation, but I gladly put up with the noise, knowing that I'll have traction when needed.
Early this season I got caught with my "all season" tires on and a few inches of fresh stuff that has been already pressed down by traffic but no sand/salt mix. I could barely negotiate small inclines that one encounters around Brookline.

 

[skijay]

When I bought the snow tires I went with 4 steel wheels. I have the Bizzak DMZ3. These are noisy, but are tolerable.

I went with steelies because at $40 each, they are cheaper to replace than a $300 OEM alloy.