So how did that Wildcat/Attitash calamity play out?

[Black Phantom]

limited offering on weekends with salaried staff can be profitable

So there are ways to serve F&B that are not at a loss?

 

[Riverskier]

To answer your question as to why wouldn't they do it? It depends if the profit that they could make is worth it to them to satisfy their customers. I could spend an hour each Saturday this summer mowing the neighbors lawn and make $20 each day. Would I do it? no

I think this is an important point not often discussed. The focus of most discussion is on whether or not a mountain can break even/turn a small profit. However, many mountains may not see the potential for a small profit to be worth their efforts. Of course, focusing on profit/loss only ignores other potential benefits of offering a long season (new pass sales, customer retention, etc.), as seen by other resort operators- Boyne in particular.

 

[deadheadskier]

So there are ways to serve F&B that are not at a loss?

Think of it like a retail store. Many are unprofitable all year long until Black friday. They can't just open Black Friday through the Holidays though. Now, if that retailer has a lousy holiday season, they won't be profitable for the year.

With a ski area, by and large F&B opps are only profitable on the weekends. You have a couple of bad weather weekends with low skier turnout, your entire season can end up being unprofitable.

 

[AdironRider]

I'll loosely quote a very experienced industry manager/consultant..."Why would I put more hours on my lifts and tractors to maybe break even?"

There are a lot of potential issues involved, such as:
- Some lifts do not run as well in warmer weather/wetter (spring thaw) conditions, resulting in an increase of potential repairs, etc.
- Some areas rely heavily upon leased snowcats. Assuming they still have the cat leased in to late spring, like a leased car odometer, they don't want to spin the hours dial on the cat before they turn it in.
- Full time, year-round employees are usually pretty burned out by the time spring rolls around. April can often be the only chance they get to take a vacation (since they're generally working practically round the clock when other folks are on vacation).
- Some areas may have insurance plans that specify what is considered seasonal ski operations.
- Maintenance employees need to focus on annual maintenance projects prior to some areas starting their off season operations.

Attitash is not set up to be a late spring area, due in large part to its low base elevation.

Wildcat, on the other hand, is an awesome late spring area. Imagine what Wildcat could be like if a Superstar-esque snowmaking campaign were undertaken?

Another thing to note is that often ski areas force their salaried management team to take 2 weeks unpaid (no vacation) in April/May. I know my fiance (sales manager for Mtn Sports School at JHole) has to take two weeks starting April 18th.

I will admit that its not that she only gets paid for 50 weeks a year salaried, but rather she just doesnt get paid during that period and they pay out her PTO sometime in the busy winter months to compensate. Often times the business wants as much expenditure off the books for April/May for accounting purposes. We do the same here at the Four Seasons at the base. My two weeks starts the same period.

So yeah, salaried management dont get to work much either. I know this is true for almost all Western resorts outside of the executive management team and critical ops managers (like Buildings and Areas or what have you that need to clean up the joint post close).

Keep in mind that us Westerners dont have much to pay in terms of snowmaking, but we do pay for explosives. Still must be tougher back east I would imagine.

 

[riverc0il]

If late season spring skiing is indeed profitable, why isn't everyone doing it?

:beer:

 

[Angus]

well, got an email this morning from crotched - aka Peaks

So if March begins cold and ferocious, like a lion...it will end warm and gentle like a lamb? Apparently that's not that case this year, and everyone at Crotched Mountain is OK with that! 6-12 inches of snow is on the way...we'll be opening Saturday & Sunday with 100% terrain and midweek rates. Awesome!

Operating with 100% of our trails open. Both parks will be open with over 25 features. Hours for Saturday and Sunday are 9am to 5pm.

Midweek rates are in effect and midweek pass holders are welcome to join us!

 

[avjudge]

The old Wildcat management went for broke on such things when conditions allowed.

You're not kidding there - I mentioned the projected 4/17 date to my dad just now and he said, "we never closed that early when I ran it!" (That would be through 1996.)

So I asked to confirm the details, and as you guys have been suggesting and I remembered, he kept it running with his gondola-and-maintenance crew (the ones who worked summer as well as winter) as crowds thinned.

And I remember from when I lived at home - this would be late '70s, and '80s when I was in college - that grooming was limited in the spring. It certainly wasn't needed to the degree of earlier in the year, when that "frozen granular" had to be beaten back into something that an edge could bite into! And if I'm not remembering wrong, I was told that if the snow didn't set up overnight running machinery over it could do more harm than good.

Anne

 

[Breeze]

2007: Wildcat announced a closing, the Monday/ Patriots Day. Big snowfall, closing one week later. Big snowfall, another week. And then another weekend. Upshot ~~~ was a closing date of 5/6, and yes it was done with a skeleton crew. Bar was closed, one beer/wine station in the base lodge next to the grill, limited food menu ( truly limited). Skiers in t-shirts/shorts, and lots of fun was had by everyone, even those who WORKED, and who in some cases did jobs completely new to them.


It was such a great closing day. I can't remember a workday that was more fun and everyone who worked the day felt the same vibe. The skiers and riders that day were so appreciative, the grins were infectious. Many guests pitched in to help without a whine or a complaint, from shoveling snow onto the lift pads, policing the picnic tables and cafeteria area, refilling soft-drink coolers----- it was an amazing place to be.

More than a few AZ members will remember, I'm sure.

Breeze

 

[john1200c]

2007: Wildcat announced a closing, the Monday/ Patriots Day. Big snowfall, closing one week later. Big snowfall, another week. And then another weekend. Upshot ~~~ was a closing date of 5/6, and yes it was done with a skeleton crew. Bar was closed, one beer/wine station in the base lodge next to the grill, limited food menu ( truly limited). Skiers in t-shirts/shorts, and lots of fun was had by everyone, even those who WORKED, and who in some cases did jobs completely new to them.


It was such a great closing day. I can't remember a workday that was more fun and everyone who worked the day felt the same vibe. The skiers and riders that day were so appreciative, the grins were infectious. Many guests pitched in to help without a whine or a complaint, from shoveling snow onto the lift pads, policing the picnic tables and cafeteria area, refilling soft-drink coolers----- it was an amazing place to be.

More than a few AZ members will remember, I'm sure.

Breeze

I really hope someone from Peak Resorts is seeing this thread....

 

[Breeze]

Anne, anyone who works in Pinkham Notch knows your Dad's first name, to this day. I'm so glad he's giving you commentary. He is part of the legacy so many people are able to enjoy. I didn't work for him, but many people I DO work with speak of him with great respect.


Breeze

 

[snoseek]

2007: Wildcat announced a closing, the Monday/ Patriots Day. Big snowfall, closing one week later. Big snowfall, another week. And then another weekend. Upshot ~~~ was a closing date of 5/6, and yes it was done with a skeleton crew. Bar was closed, one beer/wine station in the base lodge next to the grill, limited food menu ( truly limited). Skiers in t-shirts/shorts, and lots of fun was had by everyone, even those who WORKED, and who in some cases did jobs completely new to them.


It was such a great closing day. I can't remember a workday that was more fun and everyone who worked the day felt the same vibe. The skiers and riders that day were so appreciative, the grins were infectious. Many guests pitched in to help without a whine or a complaint, from shoveling snow onto the lift pads, policing the picnic tables and cafeteria area, refilling soft-drink coolers----- it was an amazing place to be.

More than a few AZ members will remember, I'm sure.

Breeze

Man that was sooo much fun. I had two different season passes and still bought five or six late season tickets. Wildcat owned spring that year, like a big celebration. There was PLENTY of paying skiers!

 

[Breeze]

There WERE paying skiers and riders. And many of them turned into immediate need-based volunteers/ friends to keep the FUN going for everyone else who was there , whether by choice or by paycheck. One of the most fun working weekend in my life memory banks. Everyone was there on the same principle: having fun in the sun.


Breeze

 

[kickstand]

'95-96 was my first season skiing and I distinctly remember going to Wildcat last weekend in April. That weekend is one of the reasons I have stuck with the sport. There is nothing like being out in the sunshine, grill fired up, radio blasting, beers flowing and skiing some great soft spring snow. I deal with January and February so I can be in shape to ski March and April.

 

[Angus]

2007 was the latest - I think it was the 23rd - I've skied lift served. I still go back and look at the pictures from that perfect day of skiing at Wildcat with my son. I remember driving thru Jackson and there was a minimum amount of snow and then at about 1,800' or not far south of the AMC - boom! The base depth at the base had to be 50". The mountain was wide open and there wasn't a cloud in th sky and at 50 degrees. Wildcat gets/keeps the snow in the spring - my guess they stay open at least until the 24th. they will go week to week after the the 17th. Last year skiing at Tucks on April 15th was sad looking down at the 'Cat with huge bare spots up and down the mountain.