Stop the Deadly Grooming

[Greg]

Very interesting blog post here. Thoughts?

 

[Hawkshot99]

Thoughts?

you will take any excuse for more moguls.....

 

[snoseek]

Not grooming the edge of the trail would make a lot of sense out here I think. A little more difficult back East as the trails are skinnier, then again why not add some variety to the hill and add safety at the same time.

 

[Philpug]

IIRC, MRG has yet to record a death. Coincidence, I think not.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Interesting blog, Greg. Thanks.

Ever wondered why people who die from hitting a tree are never skiing IN the trees? Because they can’t get enough speed to kill. Or why bumpers on giant mogul runs like those the Jane aren’t ever a part of the annual list of skiing’s dead?

The two most famous Skier V. Tree deaths are Bono and Kennedy. What were the circumstances? Were they on groomers? I know Kennedy was playing football...but where and how?

 

[kcyanks1]

Interesting blog, Greg. Thanks.



The two most famous Skier V. Tree deaths are Bono and Kennedy. What were the circumstances? Were they on groomers? I know Kennedy was playing football...but where and how?

Kennedy was on an intermediate trail near the top of Aspen Mountain (1 & 2 Leaf, I believe). Bono, I think, was actually skiing in the trees, but maybe I'm wrong and just read that he liked skiing in the trees. I also believe Bono might have had drugs in his system at the time, but I could be wrong.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Heavenly

John Wagnon, a spokesman for the resort, said Bono was skiing a well-groomed intermediate run known as Orion and that conditions were "ideal."
"The run is fairly wide-open ... tree-lined, much like any ski resort," Wagnon said. Another skier characterized the run as "an easy, intermediate run."

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/06/bono.accident.pm/

 

[kcyanks1]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/06/bono.accident.pm/

Guess my previous post on Bono was probably wrong... Not 100% clear though whether he intentionally exited the trail to ski in those trees or ended up in their because he lost control, but it seems like the later. Sorry for any misinformation.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Guess my previous post on Bono was probably wrong... Not 100% clear though whether he intentionally exited the trail to ski in those trees or ended up in their because he lost control, but it seems like the later. Sorry for any misinformation.

You weren't wrong. Like a good lawyer you didn't commit to any one answer.

 

[mondeo]

I remember hearing about how Bono like skiing trees as well- I remember it as likely intentional tree skiing, but unconfirmed as he was alone.

I don't see 10 feet of bumps slowing anybody down, though. Might keep them farther away from the trees, though.

 

[Geoff]

IIRC, MRG has yet to record a death. Coincidence, I think not.

The single chair has a 600 skier per hour capacity. Most resorts have 10x the uphill capacity of MRG. That pretty much has to be the dominant factor.

Heart attacks are also the dominant cause of skier deaths. Those don't usually make the newspaper since they're not sensational. I suspect the average fitness level is higher at MRG so they're somewhat less likely to get heart attacks. If you didn't groom a dentist/accountant/stock broker mountain like Stratton where a big slice of their customer base is really out of shape, they'd be dropping like flies.

 

[kcyanks1]

You weren't wrong. Like a good lawyer you didn't commit to any one answer.

ha I do try to hedge my bet unless I am quite confident in what I'm saying.

 

[kcyanks1]

I remember hearing about how Bono like skiing trees as well- I remember it as likely intentional tree skiing, but unconfirmed as he was alone.

I don't see 10 feet of bumps slowing anybody down, though. Might keep them farther away from the trees, though.

Might cause them to fall or spin around and hit the trees at a lower speed. Imagine going groomer speed, losing a bit of control, and then hitting a bump field. Also, as you said, it would keep people further from the trees, so if you catch an edge you aren't right at the woods.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Color me not convinced....

Are strips of ungroomed snow as wide as a snowcat going to absorb enough speed to keep an out-of-control skier from speeding into the woods? My guess is no.

Rather, I would think that reducing the amount of groomed terrain for an out-of-control skier to recover his/her control would probably lead to more accidents/deaths. Not only that, but it would lead to more crowding on trails, which might slow some people down and encourage others to "pick up a little speed" to pass someone and then lose it and end up in the woods.

 

[bvibert]

Obviously the solution is to just stop grooming altogether... Either that or line the side of the trails with some sort of foam rubber so that people won't hit the trees... :roll:

 

[Warp Daddy]

I'm skeptical that that technique would only serve as a "launch" pad . Imagine as some have said hitting those bumps at Mach Snell , out of control , launching airborne -- its UGLY .

Not sure what the answer is but one thing i do know is that : You can't protect a fool from their destiny"

 

[2knees]

I agree that it wouldnt slow anyone down significantly enough if they are truly hauling arse and out of control. what it would do, however, is keep people from skiing right on the edge of a trail where a normally recoverable bobble can prove deadly due to the skiers proximity to the trail edge.

 

[Greg]

I agree that it wouldnt slow anyone down significantly enough if they are truly hauling arse and out of control. what it would do, however, is keep people from skiing right on the edge of a trail where a normally recoverable bobble can prove deadly due to the skiers proximity to the trail edge.

Stop trying to kid everyone. You just want more bumps like me.

Seriously though, my first reaction was the ramp factor. I think part of the concept is to make people more aware of the sides of the trail perhaps? The trees should be enough, but apparently they are not.

 

[Beetlenut]

I think a cat-width ungroomed section on either side of the trail would be a great idea! Since I usually ski the sides of the trail anyway, it would give me more to ski on! Another factor, at least in the east, is that off the side of the groomed trail usually goes DOWN into the woods due to snowmaking. That can't help much with speed or regaining control when you loose it!

 

[dropKickMurphy]

Not grooming the edge of the trail would make a lot of sense out here I think. A little more difficult back East as the trails are skinnier, then again why not add some variety to the hill and add safety at the same time.

There are plenty of wide groomers at most NE areas these days. I think it does make a lot of sense to leave an ungroomed buffer along the sides of these trails.

Those are the trails where you're most likely to see non-expert skiers going at speeds beyond their ability. They are also the trails that tend to become boilerplate ice at the end of the day...when the light is flat and the legs are tired.