Sugarbush Lift Replacements?

[Orca]

It would be more interesting to talk about potential all new lifts serving new terrain, not merely replacements. Most of the lifts are adequate in their current state, though the North Lynx and Heaven's Gate triples might be improved by modern quads. And Gatehouse could profitably be a six pack given the ugly line at peak periods.

 

[Orca]

Just a note on good manners. Hawk said somewhat tersely that he didn't like the Slide Brook lift. Fair enough. Slidebrook87 then levels an accusatory question about Hawk "just trying to be obnoxious", which was undeserved and an example of bad behavior. A little care might be taken with words: don't ascribe ignoble motivations to others just because you disagree with them. You don't know what they are thinking, and it is an error of presumption to think that you do. Moreover, avoid ad hominem insults and stick to the subject at hand. You can do better, Slidebrook87.

 

[Slidebrook87]

I don’t understand where all this backlash is coming from. It’s not like I did anything rude. Can this just be a community where people talk about skiing and are able to seek new information? This drama is unnecessary. Maybe I was a bit harsh with my response to Hawk, but his comments were quite aggressive and did not need to be.

 

[Slidebrook87]

Also, when I was clarifying with Win about one of his comments, hawk rudely replied saying that I was “definitely confused” and “must be new here”. Thanks for the welcoming introduction!

 

[Orca]

I don’t understand where all this backlash is coming from. It’s not like I did anything rude. Can this just be a community where people talk about skiing and are able to seek new information? This drama is unnecessary. Maybe I was a bit harsh with my response to Hawk, but his comments were quite aggressive and did not need to be.

Let me be clear:
1. Your error was to accuse Hawk of "trying to be obnoxious" in the form of a question. You were ascribing to him a motivation that you cannot know, and to do so is presumptuous and discourteous.
2. I am making no defense to what Hawk or any others may have said in previous posts. Everyone should avoid projecting motives onto others, and seeing any example of it is not a justification for doing it yourself.

 

[Keelhauled]

Hey guys, did you know that everyone who doesn't agree with Slidebrook87 is "upset at the world and the modern Sugarbush"?

 

[cdskier]

Hey guys, did you know that everyone who doesn't agree with Slidebrook87 is "upset at the world and the modern Sugarbush"?

And Slidebrook87 wonders why people are getting annoyed at him? Comments like these are just ridiculous:

I truly hope that Alterra sees the vision that ASC once had for this resort and runs Slide Brook more often. I have confirmation from Win that the “safety standards” are Sugarbush’s own policy meaning that it is possible for Alterra to run it more often than the current ownership

You'd honestly have to be an idiot to run it when it isn't safe to do so. Alterra delegates these decisions to the local mountain ops teams and is not going to override them (especially when the reason is safety related). It is not at all worth the risk to run it when lift ops teams can't safely get to all towers in the event of an evac or when it is extremely cold. The bad press from someone being stuck on Slide Brook in 0 degree weather for any decent length of time if it had to be evac'd far outweighs the benefits of running it "more often". There are realistically not that many days that ME is open that the Slide Brook chair doesn't run in your typical season.

PS - I also love how one person saying they "hate" the lift is turned into "most people" saying they hate the lift.

 

[Slidebrook87]

Okay, enough. Why are you saying that me thinking that a vision of Sugarbush should be kept is making people annoyed? As long as the wind sensors and temperature is above 5 degrees the lift is statistically safe to run. It can be evacuated with ATVs and other wheeled transport. Here’s an example of a remote lift that runs without snow underneath: Whiteface’s Cloudsplitter Gondola. It has a rocky steep lift line with most of it taking place in the woods far away from any trails. Just take a look at the comments for Slide Brook on Liftblog.com. People have brought up Cloudsplitter and ATVs to evacuate the lift multiple times. My previous comment that you quoted was basically talking about ASC’s vision for Sugarbush and how Alterra can choose to keep it and what it would do for Sugarbush. I hope they recognize the value of having two of the best ski resorts in New England connected to become one. Why are you offended by this? Just read comments and discuss them. Not everything has to be something you get “annoyed” at.

 

[Slidebrook87]

Switching topics, I don’t think that a fixed quad on Heaven’s Gate would be much of an improvement. The current lift is in pretty good condition, and there is barely any issue with capacity. The current capacity is about 1,800 p/h. A quad could bring that up to about 2,000. No big improvement there. The only issue I see is ride time. I hear people complaining about the slow ride sometimes. It doesn’t bother me, but it bothers people I know like my father for example. It is not a very wind exposed lift due to it being on Ripcord and not Organgrinder. I see a high speed quad working, but if it doesn’t turn out to work, a quad just wouldn’t be a big improvement.

Earlier in the year I did a sketch up rendering of what it would look like if a detachable was built to replace Heaven’s Gate and it started in a barn that also housed mid mountain dining. This would solve two “problems” at Sugarbush.

 

[cdskier]

Okay, enough. Why are you saying that me thinking that a vision of Sugarbush should be kept is making people annoyed? As long as the wind sensors and temperature is above 5 degrees the lift is statistically safe to run. It can be evacuated with ATVs and other wheeled transport. Here’s an example of a remote lift that runs without snow underneath: Whiteface’s Cloudsplitter Gondola. It has a rocky steep lift line with most of it taking place in the woods far away from any trails. Just take a look at the comments for Slide Brook on Liftblog.com. People have brought up Cloudsplitter and ATVs to evacuate the lift multiple times. My previous comment that you quoted was basically talking about ASC’s vision for Sugarbush and how Alterra can choose to keep it and what it would do for Sugarbush. I hope they recognize the value of having two of the best ski resorts in New England connected to become one. Why are you offended by this? Just read comments and discuss them. Not everything has to be something you get “annoyed” at.

The Cloudsplitter Gondola may be over some steep and rocky terrain at various points, but it is never more than a few hundred yards from an actual trail or access point. Slide Brook on the other hand could easily be over a mile away from any easy access depending on where you are when you get stuck. As the name implies, Cloudsplitter is also a Gondola which offers at least some protection from the elements in the event of a longer evac.

As for ASC's vision, their vision was also to have GMX terminate much lower than it currently does as well as to have that lift be a slow fixed grip lift instead of a high speed detachable. Should we ask Alterra to embrace that as well?

Switching topics, I don’t think that a fixed quad on Heaven’s Gate would be much of an improvement. The current lift is in pretty good condition, and there is barely any issue with capacity. The current capacity is about 1,800 p/h. A quad could bring that up to about 2,000. No big improvement there. The only issue I see is ride time. I hear people complaining about the slow ride sometimes. It doesn’t bother me, but it bothers people I know like my father for example. It is not a very wind exposed lift due to it being on Ripcord and not Organgrinder. I see a high speed quad working, but if it doesn’t turn out to work, a quad just wouldn’t be a big improvement.

Earlier in the year I did a sketch up rendering of what it would look like if a detachable was built to replace Heaven’s Gate and it started in a barn that also housed mid mountain dining. This would solve two “problems” at Sugarbush.

A detachable for HG doesn't make a lot of sense unless you want to see the chair on wind hold more often. Personally I'm fine leaving it a triple, but if you get to a point where it needs to be replaced it probably doesn't make a lot of financial sense to replace it with another triple instead of a new fixed grip quad.

 

[Slidebrook87]

The Cloudsplitter Gondola may be over some steep and rocky terrain at various points, but it is never more than a few hundred yards from an actual trail or access point. Slide Brook on the other hand could easily be over a mile away from any easy access depending on where you are when you get stuck. As the name implies, Cloudsplitter is also a Gondola which offers at least some protection from the elements in the event of a longer evac.

As for ASC's vision, their vision was also to have GMX terminate much lower than it currently does as well as to have that lift be a slow fixed grip lift instead of a high speed detachable. Should we ask Alterra to embrace that as well?



A detachable for HG doesn't make a lot of sense unless you want to see the chair on wind hold more often. Personally I'm fine leaving it a triple, but if you get to a point where it needs to be replaced it probably doesn't make a lot of financial sense to replace it with another triple instead of a new fixed grip quad.

Since the lift line is not very exposed I don’t see wind being an issue, but I do agree. If the lift can’t be detachable, then leave it the way it is. The lift is using technology that Poma still uses to this day so it’s not outdated.

 

[Slidebrook87]

I don't think my post was harsh. It was honest. If you want harsh you should look back on this page and see some of the arguments in the past. I guess we can file this under to each his own. If that is what you like to do, then great. Have at it. Give me a wave as you pass over me coming out of pinball ally and crossing under the slidebrook lift.
Two things though. There are not that many people that do what you do. So you are a very distinct minority. Also you mention Mt Ellen only people coming over on the lift. They can't. Their pass will not allow them up the Gatehouse so how can they get on that lift?

I'm curious, do you ski the slidebrook woods at all?

Just some clarification. I said that the people who have Ellen only passes DO NOT ride Slidebrook. I don't think I'm in a minority. I noticed a lot of people riding Slide Brook at the same times that I was last winter. There was even a line sometimes! I skied with a lot of friends last winter and they all appreciated Slide Brook and the terrain that Mt. Ellen had to offer. If Slide Brook didn't run on the weekends that my friends came, the ski days wouldn't have been nearly as amazing. Getting to experience two awesome mountains in one day was an experience that you can't forget.

On the topic of the Slide Brook Basin, I haven't skied it yet. I only started skiing at Sugarbush for the 2017-18 season, so I haven't done everything yet. I was planning to do it with Egan last April, but the rain wiped out most of the snow they had. Maybe I'll do it this ski season even though I'm not a huge fan of tree skiing.

 

[Slidebrook87]

I don’t understand why people hate Slide Brook. It is such a significant lift, the longest in the World! It provides a convenient transfer between Sugarbush’s two awesome mountains. Not to mention the beautiful scenery and views you get along the way. I understand it can be a long, cold ride and it doesn’t run very often due to the “safety regulations”, but if you hate Slide Brook, you just have to think of it’s significance. It is truly an amazing lift that deserves more love.

Agreed ^^

 

[deadheadskier]

If the lift doesn't run, take the shuttle. What's the big deal? Or just pick one of the mountains to ski. Plenty of terrain and variety at either to keep you entertained for a day.

And Heavens Gate doesn't have a lot of wind exposure? Are we skiing the same mountain? Ripcord is one of the widest trails on the hill. Not exactly a great spot for a HSQ. Something like Skyline at Sugarloaf would be perfect. 2400 person capacity, much faster than HG due to the carpet and heavy ass chairs that perform much better in wind.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Slidebrook87]

If the lift doesn't run, take the shuttle. What's the big deal? Or just pick one of the mountains to ski. Plenty of terrain and variety at either to keep you entertained for a day.

And Heavens Gate doesn't have a lot of wind exposure? Are we skiing the same mountain? Ripcord is one of the widest trails on the hill. Not exactly a great spot for a HSQ. Something like Skyline at Sugarloaf would be perfect. 2400 person capacity, much faster than HG due to the carpet and heavy ass chairs that perform much better in wind.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

What's the big deal? The shuttle takes 45 minutes and requires you to schlep all your gear over. Maybe it wouldn't be as annoying if you didn't know that there is literally a lift that connects both mountains with a 12 minute ride just up the hill... Often times Super Bravo goes on wind hold but Heaven's Gate doesn't. Compared to some summit lifts, Heaven's gate is not very exposed.

 

[Slidebrook87]

Also, a fixed grip quad can only run 450 FPM max regardless if it has a loading conveyor or not. Heaven's Gate already runs at 450 so there isn't a difference here.

 

[cdskier]

What's the big deal? The shuttle takes 45 minutes and requires you to schlep all your gear over. Maybe it wouldn't be as annoying if you didn't know that there is literally a lift that connects both mountains with a 12 minute ride just up the hill... Often times Super Bravo goes on wind hold but Heaven's Gate doesn't. Compared to some summit lifts, Heaven's gate is not very exposed.

Like DHS said, are we skiing the same mountain? I've seen HG on wind hold quite a bit. The lift line on HG is quite exposed on lower Ripcord. Even on Upper Ripcord there are definitely sections that can be pretty damn windy. And then there's the terminals. Wind at the summit is a major factor and a detachable would without a doubt be impacted more by the wind than the current HG lift.

Not to marginalize your experience, but you said you only started skiing at SB in the 2017-2018 season. That means you have only 2 seasons of experience to base your conclusions on. I have 15+ years here and others have much more than that. In that time I'm seriously tempted to say I've seen HG on wind hold more than any other lift at Sugarbush. To say it doesn't have much wind exposure is just flat out not accurate.

 

[cdskier]

Slidebrook87 is right. With the shuttle, you have to take your skis off, take them into the dirty bus with the gunk from people’s boots on the floor, and cram you and your equipment in with all the other people on board. They let lots of people on board one bus, so It is a very uncomfortable trip when you are densly packed in with so many other people. Not to mention that it makes a bunch of stops on the road between the mountains, which only makes it worse.

With the Slide Brook Express, you have direct access between the two mountains from the mountains themselves. You get to marvel at the amazing scenery and views along the way, all without ever taking your skis off! Slide Brook also is accessed from partway up the mountains, so you can avoid the congestion at the base areas. Not to mention it is so much quicker than the shuttle which makes all those stops.

In my opinion, the choice of which method of transportation between the two mountains is the best is more clear than glass. The Slide Brook Express!

Did Slidebrook87 create a 2nd account? Did he bring a friend along? Or is someone else just playing around now?

 

[deadheadskier]

What's the big deal? The shuttle takes 45 minutes and requires you to schlep all your gear over. Maybe it wouldn't be as annoying if you didn't know that there is literally a lift that connects both mountains with a 12 minute ride just up the hill... Often times Super Bravo goes on wind hold but Heaven's Gate doesn't. Compared to some summit lifts, Heaven's gate is not very exposed.

Super Bravo is a HSQ. They are far more susceptible to wind holds than fixed grip chairs. List me New England chairlifts that run above 3500 feet elevation on wider trails than Ripcord.

You just mentioned you've only been skiing Sugarbush for 2 years. Do you realize you are conversing with people here that have been skiing Sugarbush for decades at 40-50 plus days a season? You keep mentioning ASC having the better operational plan for Slidebrook. You didn't even start skiing Sugarbush until 15 years after ASC. How do you know they ran Slidebrook that much more often than currently? I had a pass to Sugarbush back during the height of ASC. Can't say it seemed that the lift ran more frequently back then.

 

[deadheadskier]

Did Slidebrook87 create a 2nd account? Did he bring a friend along? Or is someone else just playing around now?

I thought the same thing. It's a friend. Two different IPs. Two different sign up emails.