Sugarloaf Bucksaw Chair....RIP

[WoodCore]

..............As for steepness I don't think it's any steeper than the T-bar that used to be at Pico running lookers right of Giant Killer. Rode that lift plenty of times when it operated without issue.

It was a poma lift not a t-bar that used to summit Pico next to Giant Killer, regardless, it is one steep mother!! The last section of the original Pico T-bar on Little Pico was also pretty steep.

A

I'd love to see a top to bottom lift where they'd be able to run the lift on the bottom section only on windy days. This would have to be a detachable where the chairs could run on the bottom section only then turn around. Don't think we'd see that being a lift like that would cost a lot of money. Can't just have a detach mid station where the chairs continue to the top like at Le Massif & Timberline. Would be the same problem as a fixed grip. They'd have to put in two bull wheels so the chairs could be turned around midway. Similar to stage I & II of the Skyeship gondola at Killington. It's actually two separate lifts in one that can be run independently.

This is the way the original Sugarloaf Gondola was constructed. The 2 separate drive units were located in the mid-station and the lift could be run in 3 different configurations. In the final years of the lift only the summit section was operational.

 

[steamboat1]

Yes it was a poma. I stand corrected. Remember the little Pico T-bar too, even the beginner J bar to the left of it.

Yes I remember the final years of the gondi. If I got it right they had to cannibalize parts from the bottom section to keep the top running.

 

[goldenboy80]

With the same owners as SR why be competitive with them?

Because otherwise Sunday River ends up with all the goodies and Sugarloaf gets scrooged. I think SR has gotten like $40 million in capital investment since CNL/Boyne bought them. In that time Sugarloaf has received like three chain saws, a paint job, and a bubble bath.

 

[dlague]

Because otherwise Sunday River ends up with all the goodies and Sugarloaf gets scrooged. I think SR has gotten like $40 million in capital investment since CNL/Boyne bought them. In that time Sugarloaf has received like three chain saws, a paint job, and a bubble bath.

That is funny!

 

[Jully]

Because otherwise Sunday River ends up with all the goodies and Sugarloaf gets scrooged. I think SR has gotten like $40 million in capital investment since CNL/Boyne bought them. In that time Sugarloaf has received like three chain saws, a paint job, and a bubble bath.

And hundreds of snow guns and Skyline, but still not like SR you're right.

 

[goldenboy80]

And hundreds of snow guns and Skyline, but still not like SR you're right.

Yes, the snow guns are nice though ultimately a cost saving improvement to reduce electricity and water usage. I actually do not give CNL/Boyne credit for installing Skyline or the new King Pine terminal. They waited too long to upgrade, people got hurt, and then they were forced to replace, which they did at lowest possible cost with fixed grip. I don't mean to be too negative. I actually love Sugarloaf. I just want it to get better so that I can justify the longer drive from where I live now rather than heading to Killington or Stowe. I realize the economics of those two mountains are totally different.

 

[deadheadskier]

The Skyline lift wasn't exactly low cost and is perfect for the terrain it services. Much better choice than a HSQ. Yes, their hand was forced, but they did a great job with it.

King Pine I will grant you is quite a disappointment. That lift should have been completely replaced brand new and not retrofitted. Even there, I'd be fine with a Fixed Grip with conveyor. It's not that long of a lift and also gets windy as hell at the top terminal. Really the major disappointment there though if you ask me, is that they are not extending the lift another 500 yards or so down the mountain. That would open up a ton more of Bracket to be easily lapped off the chair than the current alignment. I'm never inclined to travel very far out the ridge because you have to cut back so early to get back to the KP. If you miss the cut back, it really SUCKS picking your way down to Whiffletree area.

 

[xwhaler]

Below the current KP load station is really flat. Not sure extending the lift down helps the gladed terrain and just increases the run out. As it is the KP pod the best continuous vert on the mtn.

 

[deadheadskier]

I found some flat, but fun trees over that way. Maybe not 500 yards, but a couple hundred I'd like. There's some lines way over Burnt that are good, but drop you below KP

 

[wa-loaf]

And hundreds of snow guns and Skyline, but still not like SR you're right.

The Skyline lift wasn't exactly low cost and is perfect for the terrain it services. Much better choice than a HSQ. Yes, their hand was forced, but they did a great job with it.

Skyline went in because the old lift practically killed a few folks ...

 

[deadheadskier]

Right, hence why I said "their hand was forced." They did a good job with the chair, but it wasn't a proactive improvement.

 

[steamboat1]

I don't mean to be too negative. I actually love Sugarloaf. I just want it to get better so that I can justify the longer drive from where I live now rather than heading to Killington or Stowe.

I agree with Stowe but what the hell has Killington done as far as new lifts lately?

SPE was 8 years ago. Lost another lift with no replacement yet.

Gotta admit coctails at the Peak are cool though.

See I can be negative about K....

 

[goldenboy80]

I agree with Stowe but what the hell has Killington done as far as new lifts lately?

Killington has always had fast lifts that rarely shut down or malfunction. That mountain doesn't need much improvement though Loaf has quite a bit of deferred maintenance and improvements that would have been done if there was $.

 

[steamboat1]

Killington has always had fast lifts that rarely shut down or malfunction.

I guess you don't ski there to often. Delayed openings, mid day shut downs & malfunctions are common occurrences.

 

[goldenboy80]

I guess you don't ski there to often. Delayed openings, mid day shut downs & malfunctions are common occurrences.

Not super often, maybe 5-10 ski days each year over the last ten years. I don't think I've ever seen a lift out of service while I've been at Killington, for wind hold or mechanical issues. That may just be my good luck though, sounds like it based on your observations.

 

[skiNEwhere]

The Skyline lift wasn't exactly low cost and is perfect for the terrain it services. Much better choice than a HSQ. Yes, their hand was forced, but they did a great job with it.

King Pine I will grant you is quite a disappointment. That lift should have been completely replaced brand new and not retrofitted. Even there, I'd be fine with a Fixed Grip with conveyor. It's not that long of a lift and also gets windy as hell at the top terminal. Really the major disappointment there though if you ask me, is that they are not extending the lift another 500 yards or so down the mountain.That would open up a ton more of Bracket to be easily lapped off the chair than the current alignment. I'm never inclined to travel very far out the ridge because you have to cut back so early to get back to the KP. If you miss the cut back, it really SUCKS picking your way down to Whiffletree area.

Not sure if they could've done what you suggested without forest service approval, which we know is a very slow, prolonged process.

 

[mahmoudrodgarian]

سلام

 

[Cat in January]

Why would they need forest service approval on private land?

 

[xlr8r]

Ok, I have never been to Sugarloaf, and don't plan to anytime soon, but all this talk about its poor lift layout got me thinking about how I would fix it. This might look crazy to some Sugarloaf regulars but I tried to think out of the box.

Red are existing lifts to remain as is, blue are new chairlifts, yellow is new T bar.

1. Remove Superquad. Lift has proven to be unreliable for being the primary lift on the mountain.
2. Remove King Pine, and relocate refurbished Superquad to King Pine area on same alignment with the base lowered into Bracket Basin. Brackett Basin looks to be underutilized because of its runout. Longer lift would improve Bracket Basin lapping.
3. New Bucksaw Bubble Sixpack on new alignment up Haywire/Tote Road. Serves Bucksaw area better with base located closer to Base Lodge. Replaces Superquad capacity. Bubbles provide protection on cold days. Serves as new primary Base lift to get towards Summit.
4. Replace Timberline Quad with new Sixpack (no bubbles) on same alignment but with base lowered enough to be able to traverse over from Bullwinkles/top of new Bucksaw. Heavy sixpack chairs are best for wind, chairs could be stored when not in use. Bucksaw to Timberline becomes new primary base to summit route. A two stage gondola would not work because it is more prone to wind issues. And the alignment going straight from Bullwinkles does not work as it would be located exposed on the ridge crossing over almost all upper mountain trails. It would be easier to just extend the Timberline Alignment down to be reached from Bullwinkles by a traverse.
5. New T bar up Binder Ext. able to be reached from top of Skyline. Backup summit lift used when Timberline is closed due to wind or other issues. Also used by those that just want to lap upper mountain trails without going down to base of Timberline. Skyline-T bar could be used to lap upper half of mountain.
6. Replace Double Runners with fixed grip Quad. Double Runners are old and need to be replaced soon. similar lift to SKyline seems to make sense here.
7. Remove Sawduster as it seems redundant.
8. Remove Bateau as it is very old.

Now I know everyone is going to say how can you remove the Superquad without a replacement. My thinking is that the new Bucksaw chair replaces most of the need for the Superquad. The new Bucksaw and Timberline layouts make for two high capacity intermediate pods. And Skyline already seems to serve the upper mountain advanced pod well. This creates 3 distinct pods all served by high capacity lifts. Therefore the Superquad only overlaps onto these pods and would create overcrowding with the 2 new sixpacks going in. Again I tried to think outside the box on this one, how crazy am I Sugarloaf regulars?

 

[ss20]

Add a traverse in Brackett all the way across to the main base. Than add a 30-person tram that runs to the summit of Brunt. Methinks that would run the cost of a HSQ. Only 5-8 towers, a small cabin, trams don't require a lot of horsepower. Very few moving parts, comparative to a detachable lift.