Terminal Intermediate?

[Geoff]

I've only looked at the posts since this got bumped but....

Didn't anybody suggest "Take some lessons"?

 

[riverc0il]

Bumping this old thread...because I think my transition to terminal intermediate is official. I can get myself down steeper trails than 4 years ago but I certainly don't look that good doing it.

I have proper equipment so I can't blame it on that.

I did have a few short videos done at the end of last season. I noticed that my turns were rushed and I had a pronounced A frame, which would explain why my past attempts to ski bumps have not worked out well.

Any suggestions on an improvement plan for a planned trip to UT in Feb would be appreciated...not looking to hit the whole mountain but I don't want to be stuck on groomers the whole time either.

My original comments in this thread still hold true. How often are you getting out? More days! Challenge yourself to double your days this season. When you ski, don't just "free ski" for fun but rather incorporate drills into your skiing. You need to work on getting better. More days will help, but you need to drill with specific goals in mind.

Don't have drills? Take a lesson and ask for drills that will help you improve. Don't just ask for drills. Tell them what you need to be aware of so you can self correct. Make sure the instructor tells you what you need to yell at yourself. Ask for references for a good instructor at your favorite area that you have a season pass at (because you need more days, you need a pass--don't matter where... any where that is cheap and close is fine).

Which leads into the point made by prior posters... ski with people better than you. Don't ask for a lesson from them, but do ask "hey, watch me ski a few turns and tell me if I am doing this thing with this body part" that way you can get some feedback.

Watch others. What are they doing that you are not? This requires the ability to understand yourself physically and translate what others are doing into something you can imitate. Doesn't work for everyone. If it doesn't work for you, take lessons!

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

I suggest you give up skiing and take up snowboarding. On day one you will be an intermediate, day two advanced, day three you could lead backcountry in Alaska. :razz:

 

[gmcunni]

I've only looked at the posts since this got bumped but....

Didn't anybody suggest "Take some lessons"?

yes ^^

sign up for a group lesson targeted at advanced skiers. you'll likely be the only student and get a private lesson for the cost a group. even if there is 1 other guy you'll get a lot of attention and come away with a tip or two to work on. this worked for me a couple of times.

 

[WWF-VT]

I've only looked at the posts since this got bumped but....

Didn't anybody suggest "Take some lessons"?

+1

Take a lesson or a few with an instructor that is focused on how you ski today and what you should work on to take it to the next level. As others have said - ski often, challenge yourself on trails that are beyond your current comfort level and have fun along the way.

 

[mister moose]

I would sum up the factors that make for good skiing in an inverted pyramid (in decreasing importance) as follows:

Technique is first, you can't go anywhere without the right movements and position.
Balance is next, you need to stay upright.
Strength is necessary to do the above well, with authority when necessary and repeatedly. We're not talking body builder strength here, but you do need to be in [very] good (skiing) shape.
Equipment sufficient for the task at hand.
Desire. Without it, you lack skiing soul and are lost to mediocrity forever.

Some additional notes.

1) Very good technique sometimes isn't visible, or not to the casual observer. Watch, but also read, ask, take lessons. One reason lessons help is the instructors are trained to make the proper movements exaggerated so you can see them,

2) OMG Speden, post # 62. I'm thinking you're going to be thinking too much. I'm also thinking that while garlic, wine, sugar, peanut butter and asparagus are all good foods, you do not ever eat them all at the same time, capice? Stemming comes from inadequate turning skills. The stem is there to compensate for what isn't happening elsewhere. There are many ways to turn. You are just listing random ingredients. Get thee to a good instructor, or find me and buy me a beer.

3) RivercOil: It can also be what they aren't doing. (When watching better skiers than yourself) Discovering the reasons for this (your incorrect movements) sometimes aren't that obvious, and you might not be aware you're even doing it. Your post #19 is excellent advice IMHO. Speed does not equal technique. Foundation, foundation, foundation. Sure, try keeping up with your fast friends, but go ski and really drill hard on being controlled and precise on easier terrain. Do it often.

4) Eureka moments are great when you can get them, but expect baby steps. This includes lessons.

5) Balance and strength come from days on the hill. As many have said, to become better than all those low intermediates that only ski 10 days a year you don't need vitamins, pixie dust, or internet chat boards. There is no magic for you. You need to ski a lot.

6) Equipment doesn't give you technique. Equipment does give you better tools, and you will ski better if you know how to use those tools. Remember the better equipment tends to excel in certain areas, for certain jobs. There is no magic here either (ie a race ski does not make you a good racer), so choose the tools that are best suited your needs. If you are still stemming you should concentrate on a ski with adequate sidecut, good edges, and less than 150 days on them. Tired skis are likely not holding you back much, but you might find you notice the increased 'snap', and better edge grip of a new ski.

7) Hammer, don't over challenge yourself, post #57. Get your focus off steeps and gnar. Stay on the upper side of your comfort zone, this is where most learning occurs. Take some time to drill on terrain that is solidly in your comfort zone, and then push the technique hard. Just pushing the terrain gets you good exposure, but that isn't all you need.

8) 95% of good skiing happens from the hips on down (Settle down Sundown crew, A&E excepted, but we're not talking bumps here)

9) Yes, keep square down the hill if you are skiing a zipper line. I disagree about all the time. Your eyes, and your shoulders should face where you are going. Might not be down the fall line all the time. Looking where you are going applies to the vertical plane as well, do not look at your ski tips or the next mogul. Take some advice from an instrument pilot and develop a constantly moving scan, but focus where you will be in several seconds from now.

10) Good skiing is dynamic, not static. At some point you need to ski fast enough, hard enough, to discover, feel and use centripetal forces.

11) Which brings me to ENERGY! Do not ski lazy. At least not if you want to get better, which is what this thread is about, right? Some will disagree with me on this, but I think there is far too much accent on making good skiing easy, ie effortless. It only looks that way. You are not in a barcalounger. Effort is required.

12) 2knees, post #58, Learning is fun, no?

 

[krisskis]

Yup... Thats a good way to get good.. watch and learn

Exactly...i have been sking since i was 5 yrs old and was a "terminal intermediate" forever...until i started skiing with KingSlug. I never would have skied certain trails or gone as fast, etc. Not to say i follow him EVERYWHERE!! <i still think he is trying to kill me at times > But it definately helps to ski with someone who is better than you and keeps pushing you.

 

[hammer]

Thanks to all for the advice (again!). Much of the advice is the same as I've heard (and given) in another activity that I do so it all makes sense.

Part of me was hoping I would not be in this situation after several years, but given my physical conditioning (what is that?) and inability to get out many times a season I guess I should not have expected too much.

Life doesn't allow me to get out every single weekend or on many weeknights so I just can't do the frequent ski trips that many are recommending. I have had season passes before but I could never get out much more than the break-even point. Good, correct advice, but I just can't swing it. Oh well.

I do plan on getting another lesson in this season and this time I'll make better notes on suggested drills. One thing I've noticed in other activities is that it's difficult to see/know what I'm doing right and wrong. Going to see if I can get more videos done...they can be difficult to watch but they are useful.

Skiing with others better than me...aside from trying to keep up with my son that usually doesn't happen often. I'll just keep watching others when I'm out on the hill.

 

[o3jeff]

Last year I felt that I wasn't advancing too much and seemed like I topped out on my ability. Having never taken a lesson and not really knowing why I was doing what I was, I decided to take a lesson from one of the forum members at the end of the season. He gave me a lot of good info and things to work on, just wished I did it earlier in the season. Looking forward to taking some more this season.

Also what everyone else said, skiing with better skiers helps a lot since you push yourself to keep up.

 

[speden]

2) OMG Speden, post # 62. I'm thinking you're going to be thinking too much. I'm also thinking that while garlic, wine, sugar, peanut butter and asparagus are all good foods, you do not ever eat them all at the same time, capice? Stemming comes from inadequate turning skills. The stem is there to compensate for what isn't happening elsewhere. There are many ways to turn. You are just listing random ingredients. Get thee to a good instructor, or find me and buy me a beer.

Ha Ha. Two schools of thought.

Why did you drop that touchdown pass?

1. I thought about it too much.
2. I didn't think about it enough!

For some people the instinctive approach of 1 might be best. They can "just do it". For me I prefer 2.

The stem for me is a defensive move at the start of a turn. I push the new outside leg around the corner to prevent picking up speed, while still riding the old outside leg. The skis are then pointed in different directions during the transition. To fix that I'm going to try initiating the turn with the old outside leg instead of my stem habit. That will force me to transition from edge to flat to new edge, instead of skipping the flat step. It doesn't seem that complicated, but overcoming bad habits is hard.

 

[kingslug]

Some of my biggest improvements have come from skiing with Jim G. and Carl..they taught me to SLOW down and turn more and faster..this helped me in the bumps. Out west I have to admit that the right skis was the major game changer..skiing knee deep powder on skinny skis is a bitch..as is falling and finding you're now buried skis, poles, body...

 

[2knees]

Why did you drop that touchdown pass?

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php?t=86574

 

[crank]

Sorry for posting without reading all previous reply's.

First, as others. I'm sure, have said. Ski with better skiers. Follow better skiers. Try to imitate what they do.

The guy with the inverted triangle thingy has it backwards. It's all about balance and technique is secondary to that. they kind of go hand in hand, but you can't be a good skier without having the balance, which is different in different situations, down.

Last, again, I'm sure others have said this - push yourself. Ski more challenging terrain. I've seen plenty of skiers who looked good on easy terrain and fall apart when the going gets tough. They have the technique but not the balance.

 

[drjeff]

Ha Ha. Two schools of thought.

Why did you drop that touchdown pass?

1. I thought about it too much.
2. I didn't think about it enough!

For some people the instinctive approach of 1 might be best. They can "just do it". For me I prefer 2.

.

Agree! Personally I know that I ski better/learn more when I'm just trying to focus on 1 thing, instead of worrying about 10 things. Eventually I'll get to all 10 things, but if I work on it 1 step at a time, realizing that the time to work on the next thing on the list is when I'm not really thinking about what I was thinking about when making turns, that works for me!

For example, if I'm trying to think about hands infront, head up, knee over the toe piece of my binding, feet shoulder width apart, chest pointing directly down the falline, etc then chances are my brain is so busy that I'm not getting any benefit from what I'm trying to work on. If I'm just focusing on one of those things (such as chest pointing down the hill), then when I've got that figured out, chances are I've already started working on some of the other things, but also that it will be easier for me to advance

 

[mondeo]

7) Hammer, don't over challenge yourself, post #57. Get your focus off steeps and gnar. Stay on the upper side of your comfort zone, this is where most learning occurs. Take some time to drill on terrain that is solidly in your comfort zone, and then push the technique hard. Just pushing the terrain gets you good exposure, but that isn't all you need.

8 ) 95% of good skiing happens from the hips on down (Settle down Sundown crew, A&E excepted, but we're not talking bumps here)

12) 2knees, post #58, Learning is fun, no?

Benefit of pushing the comfort zone is it slows down your thinking. That terrain where teqnique used to suffer because you weren't quite comfortable now becomes a place where you can focus on technique, and makes it more productive when you take a step back.

All good A&E happens from the hips down.

Depends on the person, some people are happy with where they are and working on being a better skier isn't worth the improvement.

My take:
Time on the hill
Ski with better skiers, who won't slow down for you. The hell with imitation, just keeping up with them works the comfort zone issue.
Slow it down to work on technique, then apply that while freeskiing.
Lessons can't hurt.

Not sure I've seen it yet, but: video. It's a huge help in understanding exactly what you're doing, rather than what you think you're doing. You may be surprised at some random, weird motions.

 

[bobbutts]

didn't read the whole thread, but another thing to do is observe lots video of good skiers then emulate
when I was younger I must have watched Greg Stump's movies 1000 times and I think it helped.. Of course I never matched the skill of those guys, but understanding what they're doing and why pays real dividends on the hill imo.

 

[mister moose]

Benefit of pushing the comfort zone is it slows down your thinking. That terrain where teqnique used to suffer because you weren't quite comfortable now becomes a place where you can focus on technique, and makes it more productive when you take a step back.

We might be saying the same thing here. My point is no learning takes place once panic sets in. A good learning spot is pushing a little, not being totally comfortable (what I meant by upper side) as anything new will likely feel uncomfortable, but don't push so hard as to introduce panic. You should still be able to ask yourself where your weight is, what your feet are doing or their position, thinking about a plan or goal of sorts, etc. Where in that range learning occurs, or the most frequent learning occurs probably varies from person to person and day to day. Meaning you can push some people more than others. Realize you are athletic and accomplished, and others sometimes do not learn at the same pace you did. More beginning skiers are lost, and more girlfriends are lost, by friends hauling them to the top of some lift and saying "Follow me!" Just turn!" Seen it hundreds of times. I know we're talking about intermediates not novices, but that method of teaching gives limited results. Teaching is not the same thing as a survival of the fittest program.

If what you're saying is that some people sometimes need a kick in the pants to get to the next level, then I agree. Viper pit would be a good kick in the pants for a solid stuck on the blues skier needing to try something steeper. It's 3 turns ♦ and it's over with a long reassuring flat runout. As opposed to Outer Limits ♦♦, where they might revert to survival sideslip the whole way down over 1,000 vertical feet, cursing at you the whole way, never to trust you again, just because you thought you'd be bored on Skyeburst ▀ just to get to Viper Pit ♦.

The guy with the inverted triangle thingy has it backwards. It's all about balance and technique is secondary to that. they kind of go hand in hand, but you can't be a good skier without having the balance, which is different in different situations, down.

Disagree, and here's why. (Both are important.) You are headed towards a tree with only a second to act. Do you turn in that second, or stay balanced and hit the tree?

You use technique to turn, not balance. Technique is learning to shift weight, or timing, or steering, or body position. Balance is being able to stay centered and upright while doing those things. Balance supports technique, not the other way around.

 

[dmc]

If your terminal i think you can get a cannabis card in Colorado that night help the pain a bit..

 

[mondeo]

If what you're saying is that some people sometimes need a kick in the pants to get to the next level, then I agree. Viper pit would be a good kick in the pants for a solid stuck on the blues skier needing to try something steeper. It's 3 turns ♦ and it's over with a long reassuring flat runout. As opposed to Outer Limits ♦♦, where they might revert to survival sideslip the whole way down over 1,000 vertical feet, cursing at you the whole way, never to trust you again, just because you thought you'd be bored on Skyeburst ▀ just to get to Viper Pit ♦.

That's probably more of what I'm going for. Forcing yourself through a panic run now and then makes the previously uncomfortable, comfortable. Sideslipping down O.L. doesn't do anything (other than scrape off snow and make other people angry.) But going for it, doing your best, all the way down while the only thoughts are "Oh sh** oh sh** oh sh**" turns Wildfire into a piece of cake the next run. Push boundaries, go beyond the comfort level, but do it in the right way, and not all the time.

On the imitate/emulate side of things - doesn't work for everyone. I can feel like I'm skiing great, but when I look at video I'm falling apart. Hard to imitate when what you feel is imitation is nothing close to it.

 

[mister moose]

Ha Ha. Two schools of thought.

Why did you drop that touchdown pass?

1. I thought about it too much.
2. I didn't think about it enough!

For some people the instinctive approach of 1 might be best. They can "just do it". For me I prefer 2.

The stem for me is a defensive move at the start of a turn. I push the new outside leg around the corner to prevent picking up speed, while still riding the old outside leg. The skis are then pointed in different directions during the transition. To fix that I'm going to try initiating the turn with the old outside leg instead of my stem habit. That will force me to transition from edge to flat to new edge, instead of skipping the flat step. It doesn't seem that complicated, but overcoming bad habits is hard.

Ok, ok, whatever works for you.

That last description cleared things up a lot, and you are actually talking about 2 separate issues.

Speed control. This part is easier to fix I'd guess. Instead of stemming out to slow down, try each of these three things alone or in combination - 1) keep the turn going a little longer, come farther across the fall line. 2) make the turns a lot sharper, shorter radius, takes more energy! 3) At the end of the turn, make an extra push on the snow (both feet) with an agressive edge set, this absorbs some speed, and gives you a firm platform to spring off of to the next turn.

None of that directly relates to the other problem, which is

Stemming to intitiate the turn. #2 & 3 above will help with this. 2) will hone and improve your steering ability and 3) will get you skiing more dynamically. I'd have to see your skiing to be of much help. When and how it happens, if it's only on certain grade slopes, if it's balance related, favorite legs, body position, etc. There are too many possibilities. Good luck, and aim for more ski days this year!