The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Hawk]

I would say it's Alterra, Act 250 approval to replace a lift in kind (same profile, same capacity, etc) would occur within a few months, not years.

It would make sense to reuse at least the towers for North Ridge, the concrete and steel should have plenty of life left in them. It's the terminals that typically are the source of frustration.

I'm just not sure what the hold up is. They were not specific or I did not listen carefully enough. I just know is will not be next year because it has not been ordered.

 

[cdskier]

I would say it's Alterra, Act 250 approval to replace a lift in kind (same profile, same capacity, etc) would occur within a few months, not years.

I'd guess Alterra as well, which is frustrating given some of the money they are spending on other resorts. Delaying NRX further is a terrible idea...

 

[djd66]

Given the quick access and crowd factor and great terrain accessible on that lift - NRX is probable my favorite lift on the mountain. Its a bummer that it is not getting replaced. It seems like it was down for various issues too many times over the past few seasons.

 

[xlr8r]

Is Alterra, now tightening its budgets like Vail? Northridge was originally going to be replaced simultaneously with Heavens Gate this year, then got pushed to 2025. Liftblog had both Northridge and Tamarack at Stratton as replacements for 2025, now Peter has removed both from the 2025 lift install page.

 

[thetrailboss]

Is Alterra, now tightening its budgets like Vail? Northridge was originally going to be replaced simultaneously with Heavens Gate this year, then got pushed to 2025. Liftblog had both Northridge and Tamarack at Stratton as replacements for 2025, now Peter has removed both from the 2025 lift install page.

So Alterra is privately held, so as to exact figures, we don't know. That said, earlier this summer Mike Maughan the GM of Alta told the Alta City Council that both Alta and IKON season pass sales were slightly down if not flat. He and others attributed this to the cost and consumer fatigue. Whether that trend continued remains a big "?".

Vail has not acquired any new areas in a few years. Alterra has continued with its purchase of Schweitzer, Snow Valley in CA, and the expansion at Deer Valley. I think that they bought another area in CA. One thing to watch for is what happens to Aspen since the head of the Crown family and the person most involved in running Aspen died last year. I read in the Aspen Times that some think that the Crown family may sell Aspen to Alterra. This was, in part, because there was a turnover of a lot of senior management at Aspen Ski Company. If Alterra DOES buy Aspen then there is more $$$ gone for what would be Northridge.

My critique of Alterra's lift purchases at some of their areas is that they are overkill for what is really needed if in fact the upgrades are necessary. While I think having a top-to-bottom lift at Steamboat MAY help with summer business, making it a 10 MGD was probably not needed when an 8-person might do. Steamboat has done pretty damn well for 50 or so years without a top-to-bottom lift. The last two HSQ's at Deer Valley were wasted lifts IMHO. Both lifts are connector lifts that are literally a 2-minute ride at most. A fixed grip would be more than sufficient. And they are about to install the shortest 6-person direct drive lift in North America for next season. Why? Glitz? I say install a good HSQ and use the extra money to fix Northridge at what is supposed to be Alterra's answer to Stowe.

 

[urungus]

Vail has not acquired any new areas in a few years.

True about US areas
But Crans-Montana acquired less than a year ago on Nov 30, 2023
Andermatt-Sedrun acquired 2022

 

[thetrailboss]

True about US areas
But Crans-Montana acquired less than a year ago on Nov 30, 2023
Andermatt-Sedrun acquired 2022

OK. Thanks. I thought I might have been missing something. Those are big purchases. Did they end up getting Laax?

 

[urungus]

OK. Thanks. I thought I might have been missing something. Those are big purchases. Did they end up getting Laax?

Last I heard they were still “in discussions”

Vail Resorts Rumored to Investigate Purchase of 3rd Swiss Resort - SnowBrains

Swiss newspapers are bubbling with rumors about a potential acquisition of Flims-Laax-Falera by U.S. conglomerate Vail Resorts. The fact that Vail Resorts is actively looking for European ski resorts is not new, but the rumors that the largest operator of ski resorts in the world is zoning in on...

snowbrains.com

 

[Lotso]

Local, transplant, what state you are from, age, race, religion, it does not matter. It is apparent to me that there is a total disonnect with a larger and larger portion of Americans with just being a decent person. Manners, patience, politeness, edicate, decency and compassion are in very short supply. It has recently become exceptable behavior to put down, rant and generally belittle anybody that does not conform to your opinion. It appears that people are of the opinoin that thier lot in life sucks and someone else is to blame. I personally do not subsribe to this point of view. The truest of american ideal is debate and discourse with the final outcome of compromise. I think this is actually now lost and with that is the loss of the experiment called democracy. I guess this is just how I am felling lately.

Agreed.

 

[ducky]

Local, transplant, what state you are from, age, race, religion, it does not matter. It is apparent to me that there is a total disonnect with a larger and larger portion of Americans with just being a decent person. Manners, patience, politeness, edicate, decency and compassion are in very short supply. It has recently become exceptable behavior to put down, rant and generally belittle anybody that does not conform to your opinion. It appears that people are of the opinoin that thier lot in life sucks and someone else is to blame. I personally do not subsribe to this point of view. The truest of american ideal is debate and discourse with the final outcome of compromise. I think this is actually now lost and with that is the loss of the experiment called democracy. I guess this is just how I am felling lately.

Right on, bud.

 

[raisingarizona]

So Alterra is privately held, so as to exact figures, we don't know. That said, earlier this summer Mike Maughan the GM of Alta told the Alta City Council that both Alta and IKON season pass sales were slightly down if not flat. He and others attributed this to the cost and consumer fatigue. Whether that trend continued remains a big "?".

Vail has not acquired any new areas in a few years. Alterra has continued with its purchase of Schweitzer, Snow Valley in CA, and the expansion at Deer Valley. I think that they bought another area in CA. One thing to watch for is what happens to Aspen since the head of the Crown family and the person most involved in running Aspen died last year. I read in the Aspen Times that some think that the Crown family may sell Aspen to Alterra. This was, in part, because there was a turnover of a lot of senior management at Aspen Ski Company. If Alterra DOES buy Aspen then there is more $$$ gone for what would be Northridge.

My critique of Alterra's lift purchases at some of their areas is that they are overkill for what is really needed if in fact the upgrades are necessary. While I think having a top-to-bottom lift at Steamboat MAY help with summer business, making it a 10 MGD was probably not needed when an 8-person might do. Steamboat has done pretty damn well for 50 or so years without a top-to-bottom lift. The last two HSQ's at Deer Valley were wasted lifts IMHO. Both lifts are connector lifts that are literally a 2-minute ride at most. A fixed grip would be more than sufficient. And they are about to install the shortest 6-person direct drive lift in North America for next season. Why? Glitz? I say install a good HSQ and use the extra money to fix Northridge at what is supposed to be Alterra's answer to Stowe.

DV’s new chairs aren’t about the actual ski experience, it’s to sell real estate. They are about to go huge in that department.

The Steamboat gondola isn’t about a top to bottom lapping lift, it’s to relieve the base area crowds and spread people around the mountain helping with the crowded trail junctions etc.

 

[thetrailboss]

DV’s new chairs aren’t about the actual ski experience, it’s to sell real estate. They are about to go huge in that department.

Alterra owns very little of the real estate. Stern and company sold a lot of it off when the ski area was getting started to survive. In fact, very few folks buy DV day tickets since most are using IKON. It’s about the image. I still stand by spending a bit less to address a more urgent need.

The Steamboat gondola isn’t about a top to bottom lapping lift, it’s to relieve the base area crowds and spread people around the mountain helping with the crowded trail junctions etc.

I’ve heard about the base crowding issue. But again I think there were less expensive yet just as effective solutions.

It’s starting to look like Deja vu all over again as when SB was owned by ASC its revenue was going to Steamboat and another Park City resort (Canyons). Granted that up until now there have been good improvements.

But hey SB skiers enjoy that new Tommy’s Toy next year.

 

[Lotso]

9" on the Allyn's Lodge snow stake cam at 6 am.

 

[machski]

Alterra owns very little of the real estate. Stern and company sold a lot of it off when the ski area was getting started to survive. In fact, very few folks buy DV day tickets since most are using IKON. It’s about the image. I still stand by spending a bit less to address a more urgent need.

I’ve heard about the base crowding issue. But again I think there were less expensive yet just as effective solutions.

It’s starting to look like Deja vu all over again as when SB was owned by ASC its revenue was going to Steamboat and another Park City resort (Canyons). Granted that up until now there have been good improvements.

But hey SB skiers enjoy that new Tommy’s Toy next year.

You think spending is bad by Alterra in Eastern US, you should look North. Tremblant which arguably does more business than either of Alterra's VT areas is in dire need of some lift improvements. The TTB Northside HSQ has to going on 30 years old and it's a freezer!!

 

[Hawk]

Well I am not going to waste time or energy bitching about it. I have an IKON pass which means I will be skiing at Sugarbush, Killington, Sunday River, Loon, and Sugarloaf and it will be free of cost. I also have multiple friends and places to stay at each of these mountains so no lodging costs either.

 

[tumbler]

I don't think the current Alterra spending model is akin to the final days of ASC. In the final days of ASC there were barely two pennies to rub together and everyone had to take non paid layoffs over the summer. There was zero maintenance work happening until Aug 1 and then it was minimal at best. I agree it would be nice to have some more money put into lifts, especially Northridge but I don't think SB was ever going to be Alterra's answer for Vail's Stowe. Mt Ellen is still the 2nd priority but the did put a lot of money in last year with new snowmaking on the upper mountain and the base lodge improvements are nice. I will take the HG replacement happily. The Tommy's Toy is funny but there is not true beginner area at Mt Ellen since the Sunny Q is now essentially a park lift and the snowflake area is not even used anymore.

 

[Smellytele]

So looks like it has come down to only Boyne is looking good…

 

[thebigo]

So looks like it has come down to only Boyne is looking good…

for now but boyne success is intrinsically tied to the Ikon pass.

 

[mikec142]

Well I am not going to waste time or energy bitching about it. I have an IKON pass which means I will be skiing at Sugarbush, Killington, Sunday River, Loon, and Sugarloaf and it will be free of cost. I also have multiple friends and places to stay at each of these mountains so no lodging costs either.

While not exactly free of cost (I'm assuming you paid for your IKON pass), I'm in agreement. I will pay far less than I would pay if I was buying day passes (even discounted day passes) without any worry of bad weather. When I used to survive on SB quad packs, I'd be wary of buring a ticket on a less than ideal day. Now, as long as I'm up there, I'm skiing, even if it's just a run or two on a marginal day. For me, the IKON pass has been a blessing.

That said, NRX needs fixing ASAP and I do agree that it's a miss to push it back further. I ski at SB around 10-15/days a season and I'm guessing that my time is split 80/20 Lincoln Peak to Mount Ellen so I often don't feel the direct effects of NRX issues. But last year, I was stuck on NRX twice on the same day...10 minutes and 5 minutes. It doesn't sound like a lot of time, but when it's cold out and you have no knowledge of what's happening, it's disconcerting. Also, when you're in line for NRX and you see the liftie use a broom handle to get the incoming chairs to latch onto the bullwheel properly, it doesn't exactly give one a feeling of confidence. LOL.

 

[Hawk]

I think every mountain is looking good when there is snow on them. I don't take part in any of this pass bashing BS. Whatever.