Trails: Groomers vs Natural

[billski]

This should make for an interesting discussion, since many people seem to have a strong opinion.

Some random fodder:

I wonder if un-groomed trails will become the "glades skiing" of the next few years? Skiing in the woods has become mainstream over the past half-dozen or so years.

You could argue we have always had natural trails. Many of the black diamond trails are ungroomed. Ungroomed trails can lead to epic moguls. It seems that many people are thinking of ungroomed conditions the way they are the day after the dump.

Groomers will always exist, not just because people enjoy them, but snow-making will probably always require them to even things out. And of course, snow-making is a must-have here in the east.

Carry on...

 

[Snowlover]

This should make for an interesting discussion, since many people seem to have a strong opinion.

Some random fodder:

I wonder if un-groomed trails will become the "glades skiing" of the next few years? Skiing in the woods has become mainstream over the past half-dozen or so years.

You could argue we have always had natural trails. Many of the black diamond trails are ungroomed. Ungroomed trails can lead to epic moguls. It seems that many people are thinking of ungroomed conditions the way they are the day after the dump.

Groomers will always exist, not just because people enjoy them, but snow-making will probably always require them to even things out. And of course, snow-making is a must-have here in the east.

Carry on...

Skiing powder is already mainstream outside of the east coast for years. Have you seen all the wide rockered ski's being sold? For whatever reason, many east coast resorts seems to be the last hold outs. Have you skied out west? Many of the resorts like alta leave nearly everything untouched after a dump. Look at their snow report after a storm.

Never groomed all natural bump trail is far different than virgin fresh snow falling overnight on regularly groomed trail. I personally have no use for a bumpy tracked out crud trail. I like my knee's. lol I prefer the freshies.

 

[4aprice]

The modern day groomer is quite the machine and a lot of things can be done with it. Grooming is a fact and sometime warrented more then other times. Bumps can be manufactured. There are so many weather changes in the east as we have seen over the last month that grooming is necessary evil. Even out west they are key.

Love ungroomed terrain but it has to be managed. When you see a period of time where the window of weather is good leave it ungroomed, but don't lose the trail for none grooming when the weather turns bad. (we are talking east coast here).

Alex

Lake Hopatong, NJ

 

[Snowlover]

The modern day groomer is quite the machine and a lot of things can be done with it. Grooming is a fact and sometime warrented more then other times.
Alex

Lake Hopatong, NJ

Agreed. Groomers are absolute necessity. It's called INTELLIGENT grooming. There's no reason resorts should be grooming all the fresh powder off the their trails and ruining fantastic conditions. Grooming is for chopped up snow, not destroying freshies! Somewhere along the line in the ec this was lost.

 

[ScottySkis]

Like others have said love the fresh. I enjoy small soft moguls. All the hills in the east get not that much snow, besides the ones in North Vermont and Maine. Plus people who are regulars at snowy hills are use to powder. The others must groom some what. It be awesome if we have one winter with out ice and rain but that happens like once in a life time.

 

[spring_mountain_high]

i prefer chop over groom, but it's nice to have some runs to cruise on as well for a break

 

[Smellytele]

I like when they're groomed oh wait we are talking ski trails. Natural is preferred but understand grooming is needed for certain weather patterns. Do not like when a ski area grooms out all their powder.

 

[DPhelan]

in my minimal experience with deep southern new england powder days, a lot of the trails aren't steep enough for you to maintain speed on. in every other situation, leave it alone until it turns into poorly formed, knee wrecking, ice moguls

 

[bdfreetuna]

Groomed runs are great when your thighs are about to burn out.

Berkshire East does a great job with the balance between grooming and not. They groom to protect their base... but when a powder day hits they will barely groom anything except maybe a few trails and the mountain gets really fun for several days at least.

Compare to Magic on the other end of the spectrum they barely groom anything ever which is fun but some times you have to bunny hop water bars because they don't maintain the base.

Then compare to Jiminy Peak which even if they get 18" of snow they will probably groom it all flat overnight except maybe 1 or 2 trails they allow to get moguls.

 

[TheArchitect]

I like them both. Groomed or natural, I'm still out skiing.

 

[Snowlover]

in my minimal experience with deep southern new england powder days, a lot of the trails aren't steep enough for you to maintain speed on. in every other situation, leave it alone until it turns into poorly formed, knee wrecking, ice moguls

LOL....how wide are your ski's? I've gone down a golf course hill in 3 feet of untracked snow and had no problem maintaining speed.
The whole idea that you need really steep terrain for powder is outdated and based on people trying to ski 64mm ski's non rockered that sink in powder. Of course powder slows you down compared to ice. That's obvious. Just turn less if you want to go faster.

 

[Snowlover]

Groomed runs are great when your thighs are about to burn out.

Berkshire East does a great job with the balance between grooming and not. They groom to protect their base... but when a powder day hits they will barely groom anything except maybe a few trails and the mountain gets really fun for several days at least.

Compare to Magic on the other end of the spectrum they barely groom anything ever which is fun but some times you have to bunny hop water bars because they don't maintain the base.

Then compare to Jiminy Peak which even if they get 18" of snow they will probably groom it all flat overnight except maybe 1 or 2 trails they allow to get moguls.

Based on what I've read, I think if magic just got a few snow guns for base building and got one new lift they'd be my go to mountain in vt.

 

[DPhelan]

LOL....how wide are your ski's? I've gone down a golf course hill in 3 feet of untracked snow and had no problem maintaining speed.
The whole idea that you need really steep terrain for powder is absurd and based on people trying to ski 64mm ski's non rockered that sink in powder. Of course powder slows you down compared to ice. That's obvious. Just turn less if you want to go faster.

108 underfoot. steeper run=more fun.

 

[Snowlover]

steeper run=more fun.

You could say the same thing with no powder, right? Really you're just saying what type of run you like to ski.

 

[Mpdsnowman]

I have no problem with courderoy. Especially if your the first one on it. If conditions (meaning temp) are right it can be the best controllable surface to ride or ski on. But im really a powder snob. I chase it, I find it, I rape it. And I like it in glades...real glades, tight glades.

At my local hill on the main trails they do both. If we get a dumping they groom the center(primarily for the old skiers who bitch cause they only ski groomers) and leave the footage to me and others who endure such a senario....

In either direction its all about enjoyin the ride....and thats what counts...

 

[bigbog]

Timely topic billski...
Up here you get used to taking what you get...as those cold, windy days are never gone for long...and nearly every accumulation becomes something different by the 3rd-4th day. EDITED: After a brief warm spell the dip back to cold presents the need for groom a little for me when inbounds...but it all depends on where you are anyways...

 

[steamboat1]

Being able to ski all conditions & ski it well is what it's all about.

 

[bigbog]

Being able to ski all conditions & ski it well is what it's all about.

So true........

 

[Snowlover]

At my local hill on the main trails they do both. If we get a dumping they groom the center(primarily for the old skiers who bitch cause they only ski groomers) and leave the footage to me and others who endure such a senario....
..

That would really suck if you got a big dumping. Nothing better than slarving right accross the center of a trail. Better than nothing though I guess. How do people in the lake effect belt not know how to ride powder?!!? How's that ski area up on tug hill? I'm suprised the tug doesn't have more/bigger ski area's You ever go there? They must get absolutely dumped on. More snow up there than northern vt.

 

[MadMadWorld]

I'm not really sure what we are discussing but their will always be a need for groomers in the east. Without groomers, our seasons would end much sooner or we would be taking our skis off and carrying them back to the lift because pretty much all of the low elevation trails/runouts will be grass by early March. God knows, I love natural trails but you need both to stay in business.