BenedictGomez
Well-known member
True, but remember, EPIC is for many people a "season pass" in name only. There are literally thousands of people who buy a "season pass" from Vail solely for the 4 days they'll be skiing in Colorado or Utah.
-
Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!
You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!
VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
True, but remember, EPIC is for many people a "season pass" in name only. There are literally thousands of people who buy a "season pass" from Vail solely for the 4 days they'll be skiing in Colorado or Utah.
Yup, absolutely. And I'm sure Vail is fairly happy with that. They get people locked in with an advanced commitment (which is one of their big goals) and also get a high yield per day from those people. And I'm sure a significant number of people that only ski those handful of days are also spending money on lodging and food, etc because it is part of 1 big trip they plan to take.
So I live 20 minutes from Crotched, will likely ski 90% of my time there, maybe a day at Sunapee or Wildcat. Didn't but the pass last year, which ended up being good decision with the weekend crowds,(I know Covid enhanced) and only skied 6 times for the winter which sucked, glades were only "good" 3-4 days. Assume with a pass I will ski more and can cherry pick less crowed times for 3-4 hour jaunts. I hate that way that the other NH resorts have been treated, but Crotch and Sunapee seem to be ok. Have to make a decision by 9/6, and I am waffling. 
drjeff
Well-known member
Not to mention that there are certainly folks (probably not as many as the single Vail/Park City/Whistler trip crowd) for whom Epic is one of multiple passes that they own, so while they may only use their Epic's say 10 times a year, they're also using their other pass(es) numerous other times a season
dblskifanatic
Active member
- Joined
- May 24, 2019
- Messages
- 767
- Points
- 43
That is spot on! We have Epic and A Basin. I know people that bought Ikon and Epic - probably some here for that matter. Heck if I got the Epic Veteran and the Ikon Base Pass it would have been about $1200 and Bretton Woods pass is technically $1100 right now.
abc
Well-known member
No matter how it's spun, I can't possibly fathom the rational of buying an Epic pass and only use it for average of 4-5 days.
OK, for one year I can see. Life circumstance does get in the way sometimes. But year after year???
Not to forget, an "average" of 4-5 days means there're lots of people who ski LESS than that (to balance out those of us who ski 40-50 days!)
OK, for one year I can see. Life circumstance does get in the way sometimes. But year after year???
Not to forget, an "average" of 4-5 days means there're lots of people who ski LESS than that (to balance out those of us who ski 40-50 days!)
abc
Well-known member
But those people who have multiple passes ski tons of days! So their average on each pass is still way more than 4-5!
(I have a friend in Colorado who have both Epic and Ikon (formerly RMSP) for multiple years. But she puts in nearly 100 days total. Split between the 2 passes (some years she get 3), it's still in the double digits.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
The logic is pretty easy, it's financially advantageous if you plan to ski a Vail resort on your vacation since they artificially jacked single day lift tickets to eleventy-billion dollars each.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
I can't quite fathom how you can't understand how people only use their passes a few days a year. The folks on this site are in a minority of people who ski A LOT OF DAYS. There are tons of people who ski 1 week a year and as BG said they get a perceived "value" in buying an epic pass for the 1 week ski vacation. Its one of the reasons Vail went to this model I'm sure. They have metrics and Joe or Janet Skier comes to the resort once a year and skis 4-5 days. If we sell them a pass that makes the vacation appear cheaper not only do we get their money up front, we keep them as a returning customer.
Also the convenience factor of not having to stand in understaffed long ass lines to buy day tickets
ss20
Well-known member
Yep. One of my buddies had an Epic veteran pass and used it twice iirc. Another one of my buddies had Ikon and used it maybe 6 times?
It's really turning into a model like that of insurance. I've been living in the same house for 25 years and have had it insured the whole time. I took out one claim for like $5k three years ago for some storm damage, and that's it. I've certainly put more into it than I've gotten out of it. I'd bet Epic Passes are the same way....there's more people who use the pass 5 days a year than 100 days a year.
And yes, this forum is representative of the 1%er of skier habits...it's a terrible sample lol.
dblskifanatic
Active member
- Joined
- May 24, 2019
- Messages
- 767
- Points
- 43
That is spot on! We have met people from Florida, Texas, and other southern states that visit for 1 week and that is it, I even worked with some that live in Colorado Springs area and they also just do a week. Weekend warriors are a different breed! Weekday Warriors are even more different.
My buddy from the US Virgin Islands get the Epic Military pass for his family of 5. Something ridiculous like $250/pass....
They go to CO for a week in Dec/Jan and then in March it's 7-10 days somewhere else
They always seem to get in 14-15 days/year
They go to CO for a week in Dec/Jan and then in March it's 7-10 days somewhere else
They always seem to get in 14-15 days/year
abc
Well-known member
Except 1 week isn't 4-5 days!
1 week is 5-7 days!!!
Who skis only 4 days in a week long trip? (serious question here, any of your family member of "less avid skiers" does less than 4 days? Don't forget, "average" of 4 days means lots of people ski LESS than 4)
No, I can't quite fathom. Why pay $600 for 6 days of skiing when you can pay $1000 for the same number of days? Because that $1000 can let you go anywhere out side of Vail empire!
Are people so focus on "saving" money that they would pay in advance, limiting themselves to a handful of destinations. And then not ski enough number of days to even make the pass "pay for itself"???
How much does "lost of opportunity" cost?
Smellytele
Well-known member
But if the average is 4-5 days then there are a lot of people under that that are getting no value compared to day tickets.
also day tickets are bought online now as well.
KustyTheKlown
Well-known member
"are people so focused on saving money that they would pay in advance, limiting themselves to a handful of destinations, and then not ski enough number of days to even make the pass pay for itself' --> yes. of course. if you are a family of 5 who go on one ski trip a year, the savings are obvious and they don't care about having options. they want to go to vail or whistler, where they always go, every year. and spend a shitload of money on other official vail bullshit like lessons, cheeseburgers, and slopeside lodging. and they may not care if they take 2-3 days off during the ski week. they may go to the spa, or a massage, or shopping, or ice skating. they aren't core skiers.
vail loves that customer. they hate customers who ski 50+ days and bring bacon in their pockets and sleep in a motel 20 minutes away.
Last edited:
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
See my responses in bold.
you aren't wrapping your head around this from the 1 week a year skier. The way you ski, which is awesome, is completely different than most people. Its even different than someone like me who's local mole hill is now in the empire. Of course I like to go other places, but if I've already paid for it why not ski for "free" on my pass.
Next year I'm doing both Ikon and Epic so I do have some more flexibility. Unfortunately some unexpected home repairs took my Ikon money this year...
Yes...but from a Vail perspective, remember that Epic Day passes are considered "pass-holders". You can buy a 1 or 2 day Epic Day pass. Your daily rate is well below the window rate (especially if the resort you ski is one of their "destination resorts"). I suspect Vail sells quite a few of these Epic Day passes where people only pay for (and use) them for a very small number of days.
Also keep in mind that doesn't necessarily mean that is all these people ski. This could just be all they ski at Vail properties. They may also plan a trip somewhere else using a different pass (or day tickets or other deals depending on the mountain).
I don't like Vail/Epic one bit, yet right now I could go and buy a 1-day Epic day pass valid at Stowe on non-holidays for $67. That's very tempting and would count me as an "Epic passholder" if I were to buy it.
Didn't know Epic day passes counted in that calculation. There's your answer for the low averages.
There probably still are some that underuse their full passes, but the break even there is still quite a low number of days. I just looked up a 5 day ticket for Christmas week at Vail and it's $910 if you buy online. $1145 if you buy at the window.
There probably still are some that underuse their full passes, but the break even there is still quite a low number of days. I just looked up a 5 day ticket for Christmas week at Vail and it's $910 if you buy online. $1145 if you buy at the window.
machski
Well-known member
Splitting hairs now, ehh? Well, if folks only get Sat-following Sunday off and elect to travel Sun-Sat, might be down to 5 full days for Vaca. The average "vacation" skier probably may choose a side excursion day not skiing (maybe snowmobile, shopping, hot springs, etc) vs skiing a day. So there is your 4 day skiing weeklong trip ABC. Also remember, they may have a season pass but many are also renting ski equipment if not the ski wear too for their "Vaca" trips. Hard those of us dedicated to skiing to grasp I know, but the Evil Empire I'm sure does.
