VAIL SUCKS

[MadKitty]

Edd, not a skier at wildcat, only know of what you guys say, but it does seem that wildcat turned into a disaster, but the Vermont areas I ski at, in my opinion, no different then previous owners

You must only ski a few weekends a year. All the Stowe locals I know are livid about the cuts to snowmaking and the shorter seasons. Snowmaking at Okemo and Mt Snow is also not what it once was.

Vail is getting stronger financially but there customer's hate them more and more. It will reach a breaking point.

Yes, Vail is much bigger than ASC, but a giant turd is still a turd.

 

[ericfromMA/NH/VT]

If they ever open

NH has been crazy warm late this year. This week they will see some colder weather. hopefully its enough to start up the guns.

I have not been to WC since the early 1990s, definately making a trip or 2 up there this year.

 

[snoseek]

NH has been crazy warm late this year. This week they will see some colder weather. hopefully its enough to start up the guns.

I have not been to WC since the early 1990s, definately making a trip or 2 up there this year.

All of the northeast was in the same boat. Check out the Webcam for wildcat...they could open tomorrow.

 

[abc]

Clearly. I sent them a mssg today inquiring about opening and I got nothing

Did you remember to include the (still current) web page from Wildcat on "first to open, last to close"?

 

[snoseek]

Did you remember to include the (still current) web page from Wildcat on "first to open, last to close"?

These days they get beat by Wachusett. I belive thus will be the second year?

Honestly I they just said we don't do early season and opened later and stayed open later many would be on board. It's the empty marketing promises that piss me off.

 

[MadKitty]

These days they get beat by Wachusett. I belive thus will be the second year?

Honestly I they just said we don't do early season and opened later and stayed open later many would be on board. It's the empty marketing promises that piss me off.

The lift tickets page shows them closing April 10. So much for the classic one day wildcat one day tucks spring weekend

 

[Cobbold]

You must only ski a few weekends a year. All the Stowe locals I know are livid about the cuts to snowmaking and the shorter seasons. Snowmaking at Okemo and Mt Snow is also not what it once was.

Vail is getting stronger financially but there customer's hate them more and more. It will reach a breaking point.

Yes, Vail is much bigger than ASC, but a giant turd is still a turd.

I ski every weekend, and a couple weeks out west at epic/ mountain collective/Indy pass places

 

[snoseek]

I ski every weekend, and a couple weeks out west at epic/ mountain collective/Indy pass places

They do a good job on their western mtns because money. Except kirkwood.

Thanks Jesus they never got abasin!

 

[MadKitty]

Steven's pass has been vailed hard too:

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/o...s-and-crystal-mountain-chart-divergent-paths/

 

[PAabe]

Can't really blame weather since Loon and Bretton Woods are open now

And as much as I complain about KSL (child company of Alterra or something) taking over Blue and Camelback here, they have actually been very aggressive about season lengths still, and they really haven't jacked up day/night tickets or group rates yet.

 

[thebigo]

I ski every weekend, and a couple weeks out west at epic/ mountain collective/Indy pass places

Vail will be bankrupt in five years.

 

[Cobbold]

Vail will be bankrupt in five years.

Do you have metrics for that or is that just a guess on your part?

 

[BenedictGomez]

the only thing American ski company and vail have in common is vail owns a few ski resorts that were part of American ski company, check a couple of vails last 10Q/10k, they have over a billion in cash, spending up to 320 million on 19 lifts and other projects, may hit 2 million in season passes, the next 10Q will confirm this, a few weeks ago stock hit a new high, Looks to me like vail is only getting stronger.

Every box acquisition strategy looks like that, until it doesn't. There's nothing inventive about what Vail's doing, it's simply bolt-on acquisitions which are immediately accretive to earnings at the expense of increased debt. Tale as old as time. Eventually it implodes. How long is the only mystery, 4 years, 7 years, 13 years...... who knows, but it will end poorly. Look at Valeant Pharmaceuticals for a recent example of the Vail model. Stock skyrocketed to > $200 before plummeting < $20. Wall Street LOVES it, they should, just make sure you get your money out first.

 

[ctdubl07]

This skier, does not want vail to go out of business or leave new England, I am very happy With vail and the epic pass. Looking forward to more ski areas joining the vail family

100% agree. As a family of 6 with Mtn home, trips out West each year and coming lift investments, I could not be happier with Vail. I'm thinking many folks perspectives here are from seats with views (industry vets, etc) I have not sat in so I respect your opinions.

 

[Cobbold]

100% agree. As a family of 6 with Mtn home, trips out West each year and coming lift investments, I could not be happier with Vail. I'm thinking many folks perspectives here are from seats with views (industry vets, etc) I have not sat in so I respect your opinions.

Who really knows, how this will play out but as a skier, and I never worked in the industry, mega passes are fantastic, I know their is problems finding help, employee housing, etc, but it seems every industry has issues of some sort or another. It will be fun watching this play out over the next five or more years, but every owner or gm that is on the storm skier podcast, they all sing the same song mega passes have not hurt them, their season pass sales are up, business is good, looks like something is happening in the ski world, time will tell

 

[Cobbold]

Every box acquisition strategy looks like that, until it doesn't. There's nothing inventive about what Vail's doing, it's simply bolt-on acquisitions which are immediately accretive to earnings at the expense of increased debt. Tale as old as time. Eventually it implodes. How long is the only mystery, 4 years, 7 years, 13 years...... who knows, but it will end poorly. Look at Valeant Pharmaceuticals for a recent example of the Vail model. Stock skyrocketed to > $200 before plummeting < $20. Wall Street LOVES it, they should, just make sure you get your money out first.

Never heard of Valent pharmaceuticals, till now, but I do know the drug business is entirely different industry, comparing apples to oranges

 

[BenedictGomez]

Never heard of Valent pharmaceuticals, till now, but I do know the drug business is entirely different industry, comparing apples to oranges

The industry doesn't matter, it's the roll-up strategy & its financial effect on net income which matters. It's apples to apples.

 

[Cobbold]

The industry doesn't matter, it's the roll-up strategy & its financial effect on net income which matters. It's apples to apples.

if I was betting man, my bet would be alterra buying jay peak. And vail buying the resorts of the Rockies.

 

[ss20]

100% agree. As a family of 6 with Mtn home, trips out West each year and coming lift investments, I could not be happier with Vail. I'm thinking many folks perspectives here are from seats with views (industry vets, etc) I have not sat in so I respect your opinions.

Vail properties are generally great to visit. It's when you only ski one or two Vail mountains a season in the entire portfolio for 50+ days a season you see the flaws, or if you've been a passholder forever.

 

[Mainer]

Vail and asc are not the same. I had the asc pass for years. Attitash under asc was one of the top mountains in nh. They blew a shit ton of snow and ran all the lifts. Attitash last year was probably one worst ski experience ever.