VAIL SUCKS

[icecoast1]

or if you've been a passholder forever.

Thats the key, people that have never seen it any other way love Vail because of the bargain basement prices. If you've been a regular at an area for a while and Vail takes over, you can really see what a disaster it truly is

 

[abc]

The whole megapass concept is pretty obvious. More resorts for the same (or even less) money.

It doesn't benefit those who ski only in their home mountain much. Unless the new pass price is less than their old single mountain price. It almost always brings some negatives. Just ask Jackson Hole or Big Sky skiers what IKON did to their mountain! That's regardless of the pass price. Not surprisingly, many who gone to those mountain for the first time thanks to the new pass thought they had the best experience ever! They were not being crashed into was "uncrowded" to them. The fact the powder got tracked out way faster due to the increased skier number is something they couldn't fathom.

But for people who travel to ski, the megapass's positive outweighs the negative. Substantial cost saving allow them to check out resorts that are out of reach before. Even if their previous favorite mountain got more crowded, it's an acceptable tradeoff.

The roll back of season and cancellation of programs in many of the newly acquired Vail properties, are only impacting a relatively small number of skiers. For example, I don't see Cobbold posting trip reports on opening days. So needless to say the delay open doesn't affect him. It's likely he wouldn't be impacted with the early closing either.

I have no skin in this game. I don't ski early season. I have no kids in after school programs. Yes, it would impact me when it comes to late season. But as I typically rotate over to IKON, even that part is covered. Most importantly, I don't have property in a location that's taken over by Vail. So whatever I don't like about Vail, I can simply go ski somewhere else! I'm not a Vail fan, but I'm not a Vail hater either. All these dire predictions of Vail going bankrupt are more wishful thinking than prediction based on reality. I'd probably be slightly happier if they are gone

 

[machski]

The whole megapass concept is pretty obvious. More resorts for the same (or even less) money.

It doesn't benefit those who ski only in their home mountain much. Unless the new pass price is less than their old single mountain price. It almost always brings some negatives. Just ask Jackson Hole or Big Sky skiers what IKON did to their mountain! That's regardless of the pass price. Not surprisingly, many who gone to those mountain for the first time thanks to the new pass thought they had the best experience ever! They were not being crashed into was "uncrowded" to them. The fact the powder got tracked out way faster due to the increased skier number is something they couldn't fathom.

But for people who travel to ski, the megapass's positive outweighs the negative. Substantial cost saving allow them to check out resorts that are out of reach before. Even if their previous favorite mountain got more crowded, it's an acceptable tradeoff.

The roll back of season and cancellation of programs in many of the newly acquired Vail properties, are only impacting a relatively small number of skiers. For example, I don't see Cobbold posting trip reports on opening days. So needless to say the delay open doesn't affect him. It's likely he wouldn't be impacted with the early closing either.

I have no skin in this game. I don't ski early season. I have no kids in after school programs. Yes, it would impact me when it comes to late season. But as I typically rotate over to IKON, even that part is covered. Most importantly, I don't have property in a location that's taken over by Vail. So whatever I don't like about Vail, I can simply go ski somewhere else! I'm not a Vail fan, but I'm not a Vail hater either. All these dire predictions of Vail going bankrupt are more wishful thinking than prediction based on reality. I'd probably be slightly happier if they are gone

Look, places like Big Sky and Jackson Hole cannot blame the Ikon pass on their crowding alone. I know that is a super popular target, but that is the truth. In a vacuum with no other CHANGE at those 2 resorts in particular, maybe you could blame Ikon. But neither have sat still the past decade and left old, slow lifts on the hill. Or crummy diggs to sleep and apres in after. Both have dumped a shit ton of $$$ into lodging, villages, Lifts (both have spent huge on lifts, with Big Sky pushing the technology envelope). Much of that was in motion before Alterra even became to be. Do you think Boyne or JHMR dumped all that investment $$ in to just continue to cater to a small local ski/ride crowd? Come on, give it a rest and really look at business plans for these mountains. Ikon is the big target, but many of these partner resorts have been moving to attract much larger visit #'s for decades even without the mega passes.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Adironrider claimed to have inside knowledge regarding JH skier/rider statistics both past & present, and he was adamant that it was 100% IKON's fault.

 

[jaytrem]

As I've said before It all goes back to the mom test. Call my mom and ask her if she has ever heard of aki area X. If she has, don't go there, it will be too crowded.

And of course machski is correct, Jackson and Big Sky were spending like mad long before Ikon. I'm sure Ikon didn't help, but the crowds were coming one way or another.

 

[abc]

Ikon is the big target, but many of these partner resorts have been moving to attract much larger visit #'s for decades even without the mega passes.

They maybe "moving" towards that direction, it took IKON to exceed that goal!

There's no escaping the obvious and clear correlation. It may very well be that's the intention of the management. It may very well be that's why they joined Alterra. The result is clear, huge crowds from one year to the next with the introduction of IKON.

 

[Mainer]

Jackson has been crowded for decades prior to ikon. When I lived in big sky, I couldn’t believe how much more crowded Jackson was than big sky. It was all moguls a day after a storm. Big sky took a few days before it got skied out. Now it’s all crowded everywhere ikon.
But next year I might go ikon just for the Shawnee/Sunday River combo. Wildcat/attitash is probably going to be a shit show again. I’m going to miss the kitty

 

[urungus]

As I've said before It all goes back to the mom test. Call my mom and ask her if she has ever heard of aki area X. If she has, don't go there, it will be too crowded.

And of course machski is correct, Jackson and Big Sky were spending like mad long before Ikon. I'm sure Ikon didn't help, but the crowds were coming one way or another.

If they were “spending like mad long before Ikon”, but the excessive crowds didn’t arrive until after Ikon, it seems pretty obvious what the main problem is.

 

[Edd]

If they were “spending like mad long before Ikon”, but the excessive crowds didn’t arrive until after Ikon, it seems pretty obvious what the main problem is.

Ikon may have been the last straw, perhaps, but all of the investment mentioned was not done for the purpose of maintaining the status quo. It was to increase visits.

 

[abc]

Ikon may have been the last straw, perhaps, but all of the investment mentioned was not done for the purpose of maintaining the status quo. It was to increase visits.

Every mountain wants "more" visitors. But how many can say they have an increase of 25% in one year? How about 50%? How about 100% for some days? (I don't know what the actual increase is, but it's not a small number)

"Last straw" is more like a "reinforced concrete beam"!

 

[gittist]

I'm acutally surprised anyone at Vail Resorts responded to my email about the total lack of information concerning Attitash and Wildcat. Here is the response (notice that I was sent to Twitter and Face whom I said had no information other than how many days, hours, minutes and seconds we had to buy a pass):

I hope this email finds you well. I apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry as it was only recently escalated to my attention. Also, my sincere apologies for the lack communication from Vail Resorts with regard to your inquiry.
Vail Resorts will guide the opening dates of their resorts based on the history of the resorts. Ultimately, it will be dependent on the weather conditions at the resorts that will determine the opening date of operation.
With the breadth of information presented to our guests, Vail Resorts will always try and provide the latest updated information. With regard to the resorts themselves, Vail Resorts highly recommends deferring guests to the resort website directly for the latest updates. I also like to suggest to guests to also visit the resort social media pages such as Facebook, Instagram and especially Twitter as those platforms can be easily updated with the most current information as conditions can continually change. I have posted the Twitter accounts below directly for ease of access:

• Attitash: https://twitter.com/mtnattitash or https://twitter.com/attitashresort
• Wildcat: https://twitter.com/skiwildcat

Currently, the expected opening dates for the resorts you mentioned in your inquiry, Attitash and Wildcat, look to begin winter operations on Dec. 3rd as long as the weather is ideal for snow making and that they can maintain the runs for guest access. As always, this is subject to change.

With regard to your request for a season pass refund, unfortunately, weather is not a qualifying refundable event. This is documented in the Epic Coverage Policy that came with your season pass as presented during your purchase as well as being made publicly available on the website here: https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx This is cited specifically under section B.1.a.:

"Weather and Wind. You will not be eligible for a refund based on any inability to use your Pass due to weather-related or wind-related events, including snow levels."

It is my hope that you are able to move forward with your current plans in December and that you have a memorable experience during your visit.
Please feel free to contact us with additional questions or concerns.
Kind regards,

 

[Edd]

Every mountain wants "more" visitors. But how many can say they have an increase of 25% in one year? How about 50%? How about 100% for some days? (I don't know what the actual increase is, but it's not a small number)

"Last straw" is more like a "reinforced concrete plank"!

Point being, it’s not just Ikon, these ski areas aren’t trapped in an undesirable situation. They’re likely right where they want to be, in some ways. Perhaps, like A-Basin, some independent areas will conclude that the mega-pass isn’t for them. But, make no mistake, tons of skier visits is the goal.

 

[snoseek]

I'm acutally surprised anyone at Vail Resorts responded to my email about the total lack of information concerning Attitash and Wildcat. Here is the response (notice that I was sent to Twitter and Face whom I said had no information other than how many days, hours, minutes and seconds we had to buy a pass):

I hope this email finds you well. I apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry as it was only recently escalated to my attention. Also, my sincere apologies for the lack communication from Vail Resorts with regard to your inquiry.
Vail Resorts will guide the opening dates of their resorts based on the history of the resorts. Ultimately, it will be dependent on the weather conditions at the resorts that will determine the opening date of operation.
With the breadth of information presented to our guests, Vail Resorts will always try and provide the latest updated information. With regard to the resorts themselves, Vail Resorts highly recommends deferring guests to the resort website directly for the latest updates. I also like to suggest to guests to also visit the resort social media pages such as Facebook, Instagram and especially Twitter as those platforms can be easily updated with the most current information as conditions can continually change. I have posted the Twitter accounts below directly for ease of access:

• Attitash: https://twitter.com/mtnattitash or https://twitter.com/attitashresort
• Wildcat: https://twitter.com/skiwildcat

Currently, the expected opening dates for the resorts you mentioned in your inquiry, Attitash and Wildcat, look to begin winter operations on Dec. 3rd as long as the weather is ideal for snow making and that they can maintain the runs for guest access. As always, this is subject to change.

With regard to your request for a season pass refund, unfortunately, weather is not a qualifying refundable event. This is documented in the Epic Coverage Policy that came with your season pass as presented during your purchase as well as being made publicly available on the website here: https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx This is cited specifically under section B.1.a.:

"Weather and Wind. You will not be eligible for a refund based on any inability to use your Pass due to weather-related or wind-related events, including snow levels."

It is my hope that you are able to move forward with your current plans in December and that you have a memorable experience during your visit.
Please feel free to contact us with additional questions or concerns.
Kind regards,

This is the typical bullshit I would expect from them. This is broomfield. Ever notice how weather dependant always falls on a weekend. Now I'm gonna swipe salt and pepper shakers and other petty shit till my pass breaks even lol

 

[abc]

Point being, it’s not just Ikon, these ski areas aren’t trapped in an undesirable situation. They’re likely right where they want to be, in some ways. Perhaps, like A-Basin, some independent areas will conclude that the mega-pass isn’t for them. But, make no mistake, tons of skier visits is the goal.

They may not be "trapped". But it could very well be "undesirable". Much the same as in the case of A-basin. I'm sure AB enjoyed the increased visit initially. But in the end, they conclude there's indeed such a thing as "too much of a good thing"! Everyone who ski AB after it switched from unlimited Epic to limited IKON seem to like it a lot more than before.

So, as much as mountains want "tons of skiers", they don't want mega tons of skiers.

 

[abc]

"...Vail Resorts highly recommends deferring guests to the resort website directly for the latest updates.."

"Vail Resorts will guide the opening dates of their resorts based on the history of the resorts."

Did you mention Wildcat's web site still sporting "first to open and last to close"? (which was "historically" correct)

 

[gittist]

Did you mention Wildcat's web site still sporting "first to open and last to close"? (which was "historically" correct)

No I didn't. If it's still there send me an IM and I'll send you the e-mail addresses. Maybe if everyone from east of the Mississippi writes they'll pay more attention to the NE, but don't hold your breath

 

[abc]

No I didn't. If it's still there send me an IM and I'll send you the e-mail addresses. Maybe if everyone from east of the Mississippi writes they'll pay more attention to the NE, but don't hold your breath

Yes, it's still there

Mountain Info | Wildcat Mountain Resort

www.skiwildcat.com

As I mentioned in another post, the delay open doesn't really impact me. Family obligation dictates I don't ski in November anyway. Still, it's a blatant lie to claim Wildcat "historically" have long season when the new owner made conscious decision to the contrary since taking over!

So yes, PM me the email address. Hope others do the same.

 

[machski]

They may not be "trapped". But it could very well be "undesirable". Much the same as in the case of A-basin. I'm sure AB enjoyed the increased visit initially. But in the end, they conclude there's indeed such a thing as "too much of a good thing"! Everyone who ski AB after it switched from unlimited Epic to limited IKON seem to like it a lot more than before.

So, as much as mountains want "tons of skiers", they don't want mega tons of skiers.

Oh wait, A-Basin got better when it went to limited days on Ikon?? That is what Big Sky has too and JHMR is on the premium tier Ikon Base AND will require pre-reservations for those skier's, day tickets and MC pass skier's this year. So how are these two all Ikon's fault? Both have also done a ton in the past decade to increase air service (unlike CO I-70, these two are not really drive to destinations). Bozeman now has the largest breadth of service in Montana (Billings used to have the most air service in state). I guarantee Boyne hasn't done all they have just for 5/7 days of visits on Ikon.

 

[Mainer]

The key to the mega passes out west is getting people to stay at the ski area lodging. Big sky doesn’t have any hotels non boyne less than 15 miles from the resort. Most of the restaurants in the upper village are boyne. It costs the same to run the resort regardless of how many visitors. Get as many people there as you can there and hope they spend a shit ton of money there. That’s why they are part of ikon.

 

[crystalmountainskier]

The key to the mega passes out west is getting people to stay at the ski area lodging. Big sky doesn’t have any hotels non boyne less than 15 miles from the resort. Most of the restaurants in the upper village are boyne. It costs the same to run the resort regardless of how many visitors. Get as many people there as you can there and hope they spend a shit ton of money there. That’s why they are part of ikon.

The Lodge at Big Sky and Bucks T-4 are not owned by Boyne. There's a new Marriott Residence Inn in the Big Sky Town Center. A Montage is about to open in Spanish Peaks. Moonlight is getting the first One & Only resort in the United States. I would not be surprised to see a Four Seasons too.